FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

[Steve Long]

And speaking of future books, earlier in the thread you mentioned something about "Battlegrounds". Could you please give us some idea of what that is?

 

It's a fantasy equivalent, more or less, of the Champions Battlegrounds product we have slated for release roundabout this June. It's a collection of interlinked scenarios, each centering around a map or maps GMs can make repeated use of if desired. In the case of FH Battlegrounds, it will also have a bunch of generic maps for prominent fantasy locations in the back.

[CleverName]

Random synaptic firing...

 

Steve,

 

I thought of one other topic that we discussed a loooong time ago, way back in the misty days of yore when DoJ took over Hero Games. Back then I seem to remember you saying that you were going to address the "granularity" issue (perception) when you got to Fantasy Hero.

 

Anyways, that's not a spark to start a flamewar, just a reminder.

 

: )

[Qamar]

Originally posted by Steve Long

Chapter Three, Combat And Adventuring: various new/optional rules pertaining to combat; stuff about weapons; mass combat rules.

 

While I enjoy the expanded combat rules in 5th edition, I do get nervous with the introduction of martial arts in FH. Perhaps others have had better luck, but my experience has always been disastrous - PCs very quickly gain oodles of combat levels and max out on weapon damage.

 

 

Chapter Four, Magic: Magic system creation; spell creation; magic items and their creation. Will include approximately a dozen sample magic systems, each with four or more sample spells; I may try to make one or two spells the same in every system, just to demonstrate the variations. Will also include lots of sample enchanted items.

 

The more unique differences the better!

[Bazza]

Confessions from a ex-D&D junkie

 

Originally posted by Geoff Speare

You asked for it.

 

Fantasy Hero Design Goals

 

Most important: focus on the overall user experience. Make this a fantasy book before it's a Hero book.

I agree. As a person who blindly followed D&D product line for many a year before seeing the light - "what you mean there is an industry?! Cool." With d20 bring new gamers into the fold FH has a better chance than any other HERO book to tap that market and creative power. By making FH a fantasy book first I believe that it will be eaiser for D&D/d20 junkies (myself an ex-junkie) to pick up the HERO system. Fanstasy is what they are fimiliar playing and that eases the burden of learning a new rules system.

 

Originally posted by Steve Long

THINGS I WON’T BE DOING

 

4. Providing conversion notes for other RPGs.

Not a conversion, but something for d20 junkies to touch base with. "So is similiar to ". Something they can identify with and since they are already familiar with the genre it will to ease them into HERO.

 

They are not adversed to the idea of collecting multiple books to play the game, the FH line makes sense to these people eg a rule book, a spellbook and a monsters book. For me it would be helpful for the spellbook to have a "how-to" guide appendix to help newbies learn to create well designed spells.

 

The majority of gamers started with D&D and moved to a different rules system, there is a great opportunity here to add more d20 players to the HERO community.

 

I'm excitied about FH and will certainly be looking at it when it is released, thanks for listening.

[Bazza]

Originally posted by Monolith

I would not mind seeing some information and expansion on horror and fear. The fantasy genre, more than almost any other genre, seems to constantly have encounters with eerie and horrific creatures (undead, monsterous beings, demons, etc).

I second this. Undead are supposed to be unnatural and fear-inducing not ruduced to just game mechanics. Seeing one should be memorable (well for the players anyway). Remember watching the b-grade horror flicks and having the bejeebers scared out you. Imagine your dead grandmother walking down the street as a zombie trying to kill you, just a typical undead creature mind you. This is more to do with campaign flavour than anything else. A Package Deal for Undead, Deamons maybe worthwhile.

 

Originally posted by Toadmaster

A "D&D" clone magic system (spellbook, limited number of spells per day etc) same goes for the diety based "d&d" magic as many are going to be using d20 as a starting point, make sure to include a "magic missile" clone as that seems to be asked every couple of months.

I agree whole heartly, a D&D clone would be needed to persuade d20 junkies that there is an alternative - create your own. Due to the number of people playing or played D&D the Vance system has become the default for the rpg genre of fantasy. It's merits are open to debate.

 

my favouite spell is magic missle . Perhaps a write up for wish-like effect also.

 

Originally posted by Toadmaster

A Runequests style "rune" based magic for a very differant style.

I second this, RQ was the first RPG other than D&D that I 'played' in when I discovered that there is a rpg industry . I'm sure other gamers have fond memories using a "rune" based system as well. Also

 

Originally posted by Toadmaster

and finally a sort of silly or wild magic system

Depending on the campaign, magic spells can be miscast, thus invoking this system. Bring back some mysteriousness and unpredictability to something that has been reduced to the mundane.

 

(Greater) Wish list: I would also like a mind magic system for psionic gifted magic users. Also a traditional ritual magic system (if research time permits )

 

I would also like a discussion on metamagic, antimagic, dead magic, sentient magic (magic as a living entity) etc.

 

Originally posted by mudpyr8

By and large, I think that's okay. Every world is different and there shouldn't be a canon set of spells. That said, we need to see more settings that include not only the magic system, built using the FH guidelines, but all the spells that exist for that world. Then newcomers to the system/world can pick and choose spells just like weapons/armor.

That would help immensly for beginners to HERO and FH. We would start then with using established spells, then when they get a feel for them, create our own magic system or magic subsytem and the spells for it.

[Chris Goodwin]

What archer would like to see

 

I'd like to see a book that helps me use the HERO System to play out the kinds of adventures one reads about in the kinds of novels and stories that are published as "fantasy". I don't want to see anything that says "This is how your fantasy game should work" but "This is how X tends to work in fantasy novels and stories but here's how to change it if you want effects Y or Z."

 

I don't want much.

[Starwolf]

here is one I would like to see. A short blurb on siege engines and body/def of common fantasy items like castle walls, Oak doors, Treasure chests, etc.

[Old Man]

What's funny is that the usual body/def figures don't work too well in fantasy. It's trivially easy to do 2d6K with a sword in FH, which gets you through a standard oak door in one or two swings. It's one of those places where the superhero origins of the game show through. And I can't think of an easy solution that doesn't involve radically increasing the BODY of certain everyday objects.

[Mancer]

What's funny is that the usual body/def figures don't work too well in fantasy. It's trivially easy to do 2d6K with a sword in FH, which gets you through a standard oak door in one or two swings.

 

The issue of weapons hacking through Oak doors, Stone walls, etc is dealt with on pg. 328 of Fred with the "-1/4 Real Weapon" limitation (which most Fantasy Hero weapons should have by default)

 

Mancer

[Old Man]

Originally posted by Mancer

The issue of weapons hacking through Oak doors, Stone walls, etc is dealt with on pg. 328 of Fred with the "-1/4 Real Weapon" limitation (which most Fantasy Hero weapons should have by default)

 

The "Real Weapon" limitation is a useless piece of handwaving that says nothing more than "it is up to the GM to determine how this should work," which is how things were in 4th ed., or for that matter, Basic D&D. It does nothing to help the GM with an argumentative player who has a different idea of just how many hacks it takes to get through an oaken door in "real life".

[Eodin]

Something I'd really like to see covered in the magic systems is ideas on how to have spells with long durations...like the old "3 minutes per level" kind of thing from D&D...Some way to have spells that cost END to cast but that END is paid per turn or per minute or per hour to maintain them.

[Chris Goodwin]

I once came up with a house rule for that. +1/4 per level down the Time Chart; thus, for +1/2, you could spend END once per minute to maintain a Constant Power.

[IC Tanarukk]

I'd really like to see more detailed rules for STR minimums on weapons (such as for characters significantly stronger or weaker than humans). I'd also like to see more explanation on what qualifies as "common" or "uncommon" when it comes to Weapon Familiarity. For instance, does it have anything to do with Real or Active Costs, or is it completely arbitrary?

[Yamo]

The "Real Weapon" limitation is a useless piece of handwaving that says nothing more than "it is up to the GM to determine how this should work"

 

As opposed to what, listing every possible weapon and its precise effect on dozens (hundreds? thousands?) of common objects?

 

Why not have the rulebook just list all possible variations of Energy Blast by special effect or all possible Psychological Limitations while you're at it?

 

They could publish it in twenty volumns and call it "Encyclopedia Fred."

 

It does nothing to help the GM with an argumentative player who has a different idea of just how many hacks it takes to get through an oaken door in "real life".

 

GM: I'm the GM here and what I say goes. If you don't like it, find another game. End of discussion.

 

Problem solved. HERO can do many wonderous things, but it can't furnish you with a spine. Nor should it.

[Thag13]

I am sure I am just echoing the wants of the posters before me, but I am going to add my 2 cents worth just for completeness sake.

 

Excamples of characters! Lots of these please.

 

A good size spell book and several ways to formulate Spells

 

Travel times by ship, horse, flying yaks, ect.......

 

Lots of different races with excamples

 

I would pay extra for the hard cover.

 

Settings are not so improtant to me, I figure iam going to make mine up anyway, or put that info in a seperate book.

 

Thanks for listening

[Old Man]

Originally posted by Yamo

GM: I'm the GM here and what I say goes. If you don't like it, find another game. End of discussion.

 

Problem solved. HERO can do many wonderous things, but it can't furnish you with a spine. Nor should it.

 

Bravo.

 

I too would pay extra for a hard cover with great art.

 

Examples of equivelent armor types. Like Furs and Cloth Armor are Def 1; Leather Armor and Ratan are Def 2, etc.

[Old Man]

oops

[Michael Hopcroft]

HERO can't furnish me with a spine? OH, darnit!

 

Some other things I'm wondering about in Fantasy HERO is the creation of monsters and how to vary them for your own game. Maybe in your game Orcs are mind-controlled into serving Dark Lords and would do something else if left to their own devices (raise food rats, for example). Maybe in your game the Royal treasurer is a shapeshifted dragon who has lent the King a portion of his hoard and is tracking the value of his investment. (Dragons must pay an inordinate point cost for their Multiform if they can assume human guise, by the way -- it adds at least 250 points to their character!)

 

Maybe in your game Trolls turn to stone during the day and are brought into fashionable homes as bodyguards for the rich and unscrupulous.

[Old Man]

Originally posted by Yamo

GM: I'm the GM here and what I say goes. If you don't like it, find another game. End of discussion.

 

You must have a lot of players where you are. I'm jealous.

 

Note that fleshing this system out would also help players who find themselves at the mercy of an abusive or idiotic GM. If GMs were perfect we wouldn't even need the rulebook, we'd all just sit around and listen to him talk.

 

There's a point at which certain things need to be abstracted, true, but property damage is one area that comes up all the time, and as such it needs better treatment than "whatever the GM says".

[jguerin]

Armor Penalities.

 

Dont forget the negative side to wearing armor. The FRED just doesnt cut it when it comes to having to make the decidion to wear armor or not. There's no real penality.

[Greenstar]

I don't have my FREd book here, so this may already be covered, but...I plan to have characters in armor spend END when in combat time each phase depending on the weight of armor they carry. I suspect this s covered in the encumberance rules, but as I said, I'm not sure (don't have my books at work )

 

I'm coupling this with a slight change to the basic rules - I'm not allowing END recovery in the post-12 segment. STUN, bleeding, etc. will all happen, but if you want to recover END, you have to use a phase to do so. So far in testing, it seems to make fights a bit more"realistic".

[Old Man]

END for wearing armor is kind of covered in encumbrance. I think there should also be a guideline for other penalties while wearing armor. Like DCV penalties or skill use penalties.

 

"You're going to Stealth behind the guard and knock him out...in your plate armor...um yeah."

[jguerin]

Exactly my thoughts shadowpup. I'm tired of seeing the swashbuckling acrobatic tank wearing full plate, helm and shield doing midair summersaults and cartwheels without a DEX or DCV penality becuase they happen to have a mediocre STR score.

[Old Man]

The DCV penalty used to be based purely on weight in 4th. I'd go back to that for game balance purposes even if it is less realistic. Otherwise, your 20 STR stud fighter type (an extremely common archetype in FH) skips around in full coverage 8 DEF tankmail with no DCV or DEX roll penalty at all, or a net +2 DCV should he elect to carry a large shield.

 

I'm starting to wonder just how good the new FH is going to be. It seems as though Fred did all kinds of damage that would have to be superceded in order for FH 5th to be playable.

[jguerin]

Steve Long--Armor Penalities

 

What say you Steve? Is there going to be any armor specific details in FH? I know you don't want to go all historical-anthro research mode (can't blame you) but will there be some kind of penality for wearing armor other than the FRED ENC rules?