FANTASY HERO -- What Do *You* Want To See?

[Guest Green Giant]

I know this is late in posting to this thread, but on another thread pertaining to armor usage, there was some discussion regarding the problem of equal combat effectiveness between heavily armored charcters and lightly armored charcters. If you leave powers to exist only racially or by spellcraft, and you utilize most of the heroic rules, lightly armored charcters can not compete closely at all with DEF 6-8 charcters. In the future genre book, perhaps a tip or two about evening out the playing field for mixed armor parties.

thanks

-Green

[M-3]

Hmm... A whole lot of stuff that's already been mentioned by others.

 

I'd also like to see some optional additions to the default HERO 5 rules such as the Package Bonus as it appeared in 1st ed. FH. I always thought the idea of reqarding players for taking skills that probably wouldn't be very useful in an adventure just to flesh out their characters was a good idea with bonus points being inversely proportional to how useful the GM felt the skill/power in question was. It could probably fit in a sidebar or something.

 

In a fantasy game, I'd definitely like to see some way of modifying the CHA Maxima. It strikes me as weird that age affects CHA Maxima but species doesn't. This too could be anoptional rule. As it is, I just rule that characteristics gained from size or a racial package deal is treated as being a CHA bought as a power.

 

I'd like to see som solid advice on doing really weird and unusual magic systems like, for example, the one in SwordBearer where what spells you could cast was based on Nodes you had. Nodes were sort of little "bits" of a pure element that you could find in areas where there was plenty of that element around. When you found one, it would already be "aligned" to a specific spell, and if you wanted to cast some other spell with it, you'd have to "re-align" it. And whenever you used a node for anything (casting a spell, re-aligning...), there was a chance the node would burn out.

 

Like others here, I'd also gladly pay more for a hard cover. (Even though my previous ed. FH still looks beautiful and pristine.)

 

Oh, and something I DON'T want to see: Artwork by Larry Elmore. Please.

 

Cheers,

M.

[AnotherSkip]

Originally posted by M-3

Oh, and something I DON'T want to see: Artwork by Larry Elmore. Please.

 

M.

 

 

PHHHHHBTT!!!!!!

 

i like the larry Elmore artwork thank you very much!

 

 

uhmmm other things to clear up......

issue 259 Dragon Magazine Designer Desmenes By Mark A Heart is the point based kingdom builder.

 

hey guys let's make a thread over in the FH section to convert and expand his notes, making them more than bases and kinda like Heroes.

 

Anyways how about some guildelines to finding out what your players want as well as what you want from the fantasy campaign.

 

and suggestions for changing the point costs of things in the basic FRED to balance things better (rant: there was NO real reason IMNSHO to shoot Healing in the foot temporally speaking and THEN make Regen so dammably fast. off rant) from a game balance point for certain levels of power.

 

Another suggestion would be guides on drawing the line between heroic and superheroic esp with VPP'S and many a spell. i'm Having a problem with the current gm wanting me to buy AOE attacks with my VPP when it is Sooo much easier to TK bucketfulls of darts over the enemy.......

[Arthur]

A discussion on how to make other character types as "cool" as mages. Especially if magic power levels are high, players playing non-magic-using characters often feel overshadowed. Here are some ideas:

 

1. Allow martial artist characters to buy "Ki Powers" (iron fist, healing trance, etc.)

 

2. Powers for Paladins and other deity-driven types.

 

3. For archers: various ways to fire magic arrows.

 

4. Super-stealth for rogues and thieves.

 

Another concern in Heroic games in general is the low cost of STR. In a Superheroic game, STR is balanced somewhat against Power Frameworks. However, if Power Frameworks are disallowed (I assume the two options will be discussed for magic), STR becomes too good. At the very least, END cost for STR should be 1 per 5.

[Ndreare]

PLEASE do not change any ground rules like strength cost or disallowing frame works.

 

One of the best features of HERO is the no conversion for world jumpers. Even G.U.R.P.S. has different rules for deferent games making conversion a must and then balancing a character who earned XP with one that started with more points is ridiculous to do to the double after creation rules. HERO currently is perfectly universal. To make strength cost double or anything like that would rune lots of characters including the time jumpers in so many of our campaigns.

 

And for the record Frameworks are consistent with most literature. Were learning the first basics and bits of magic is the hard part and after that it is a matter of learning new skill/Spells for other powers.

[Old Man]

I agree, don't change the basic costs of anything. Some things may be "over powered" for this genre, but things like that should be handled by the GM.

[James Gillen]

Originally posted by Arthur

Another concern in Heroic games in general is the low cost of STR. In a Superheroic game, STR is balanced somewhat against Power Frameworks. However, if Power Frameworks are disallowed (I assume the two options will be discussed for magic), STR becomes too good. At the very least, END cost for STR should be 1 per 5.

 

In my last game, I just enforced the Long Term END rules. If a max'ed out fighter is burning 2 END per Phase with a 20 STR, has 4 SPD and a REC of 8, that's a ratio of 1:1 (8 END over 8 REC) causing Long Term END loss at the rate of 1 per Minute. Which due to the quick time ratio of HERO combat, means END loss may not occur, but that also doesn't account Running or Pushing.

 

Thus, END isn't too much of a hassle unless the player really wants to push himself every Turn.

 

JG

[Toadmaster]

Originally posted by James Gillen

In my last game, I just enforced the Long Term END rules. If a max'ed out fighter is burning 2 END per Phase with a 20 STR, has 4 SPD and a REC of 8, that's a ratio of 1:1 (8 END over 8 REC) causing Long Term END loss at the rate of 1 per Minute. Which due to the quick time ratio of HERO combat, means END loss may not occur, but that also doesn't account Running or Pushing.

 

Thus, END isn't too much of a hassle unless the player really wants to push himself every Turn.

 

JG

 

This does help control STR, I recall one character I ran with a 23 STR, it was not unusual in longer combats for me to have to take a round here and there to take an additional recovery so I could make it to the end of the battle.

[AnotherSkip]

Originally posted by Shadowpup

I agree, don't change the basic costs of anything. Some things may be "over powered" for this genre, but things like that should be handled by the GM.

 

Hmm Okies guys I give in.

 

Here is my ALTERNATE phrasing of the suggeestion:

 

Have a discussion of the effects of changing some of the base costs/times and considerations for so doing (ie if you change the cost of FF should you change the cost of Armor? or of KA's or Exotic Defenses? if you change the Speed of regeneration what else could that seriously impact? What else should you consider if you change the default movement of Flight to where you are at 1/2 dcv?)

 

 

Also a time example (ie if you had 36 hour days, with 10 hours of darkness, 9 day weeks, 20 months with 27 days and 6 years to a six-year) of changing the time chart as well as a few extrapolatable suggestions on changing some of the possible advantages/limitations or even on modifying the time chart.

Just a few suggestions/ideas.

 

frankly on the whole Movement thing the simplest solution would be to take a 1 speed character moving at 1" and figuring/exampling from there(in one day you would get x far ). I would also include a single leve of megascaling so that it would give some examplification/comparison and for megascaling travel.

[ShadowRaptor]

I would like to see the book as large as Star HERO going into the topics with as much emphasis and detail as in Star HERO and also at least a good 2-6 pages on how to really mesh fantasy with sci-fi.

 

A book that size should be able to fit in a few pages for common prices towards items and also a page or two devoted to how much common workers make, which has probably been done in other products but not to any degree to make it really seem like its really a part of fantasy.

 

I also nominate a focus into various types of magic and how to make these various types FEEL fantasy, not just be listed as a option.

 

Most important of all, beyond anything else, is that the book needs to be COOL. It needs to have a amazing front cover that speaks "LOOK at me, BUY me, you won't regret it." It needs to have equivalent artwork inside also, which I felt was not the strong point in Terran Empire personally. I stress artwork because its the first thing most people look at when they pick up a book. It's not the most important, but if its not visually inspiring, then it won't sell as much.

 

The other thing that it needs to be is, like Star HERO, it needs to have enough generic information that anybody could pick it up of any game system and can use it. Star HERO did that by all the gaming advice it gave for GM's that would like to run a Star HERO game, and Fantasy HERO needs to do the exact same thing. It needs a plethora of advice for running a fantasy game. This might have already been stated but I didn't feel like wading through over 120 or so messages so I am stating this now. Forgive me if I stated something that has been mentioned previously.

[Enforcer84]

Bring it out next week. That's what I want to see...

[Yamo]

I second insuring that FH is at least the length and depth of Star HERO. At least. More and longer is ever better.

[AnotherSkip]

Actullay Ill add something>

 

i Would suggest a Rather large section on the Various transforms.

 

Going over and expanding the various transforms, (Phis, Mental And Spirit) as well as some "common" examples of each.

 

I would also like to see some commentary on Heroic level usages of Telekinisis and suggeestions on where you should draw the line between needing a power and being able to cleverly using TK(etc).

[Steve]

Power levels

 

One of the things that was really nice from Ninja Hero was establishing a spectrum of power level categories that a campaign could fall into, and suggestions for creating characters and even sample campaigns that used these power levels. Fantasy Hero could do the same thing, with cateogries ranging from Low Fantasy (with maybe as low as 50+50 or even 25+25 Heroes set in a low or non-magic setting, like Medieval Europe); Swords & Sorcery (Conan or Ladyhawk); all the way up to Epic (such as LOTR) or even Anime level (such as Slayers or Bastard). Just my two cents.

[i3ullseye]

Ya know, the original FH and the 2 companions were some of my most prized possessions. They were very well done, and it sounds like you are sticking to a proven formula.

 

But here are a few things.

 

Seems you are not going back to the idea of the spell colleges (which was fantastic), but certainly spell SYSTEM examples, not just spells, would be great.

 

I would like to see an aligment preference of sorts listed for races. and a grid showing the factions within the races. Who loves and hates each other?

 

The mass combat rules were actually good, and it sounds like you have a battle book planned to cover that later. Need to make sure to include flying mounts and ship based combat. Detail on cost and building times for siege weapons, and full siege rules, wouldn't hurt in the future.

[EvilGM]

Originally posted by Grymlynn

I've been seeing a lot of "How much do things cost" and "travel time" stuff. I think that the economics should be presented as: "Here is how much a shirt costs in a world that models the middle ages closely... Here is how much a shirt costs where technology/magic/whatever has changed shirt-making from a one person, skilled job (which it was) to a mass produced item."

 

Not sure if it's been mentioned here already, but there's a great book that has been published by Expeditious Retreat (http://www.exp.citymax.com/page/page/351667.htm) called A Magical Medieval Society: Western Europe. It's designed for D20, but a lot of the info can easily be made to work with HERO System. I've got a copy of it, and it is absolutely fantastic. Has information about how magic would affect a medieval society, and includes rules on how to develop manors, towns and cities, plus a lot of info about economics -- including some price lists.

[Grymlynn]

Hey thanx, Lisa! I downloaded the free teaser (which evidently is the entire fourth chapter...), and I'll check it out as opportunity presents. I love these kinds of things! World building is soooo much work...

[Killer Shrike]

FantasyHERO; When will then be now?

 

Steve; as requested:

 

"WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE IN FANTASY HERO, AN EXPOSITION" by Killer Shrike

 

I would like to see more of what we have already seen in both CHAMPIONS (unlike some others, I love it but still harbor the inner wish that it had been called SuperHERO, with Champions Universe bearing the CHAMPIONS moniker instead) and StarHERO. I want a generic er... I mean UNIVERSAL approach to the genre at the begining, applicable to any system because it is not mechanic-speak, it is definition and concepts-speak.

 

After this opening delineation of the terms and categorization of the genre and its more popular sub-genres, a treatment of how to handle some of the most prevalent precepts of the genre in the context of the HERO System specifically. In this section, which would span several chapters, I would like to see a weighting towards "THE BIGGER PICTURE" as opposed to specific instances. Specific instances should be presented as EXAMPLES of general guidelines, not an ends unto themselves.

 

For example, under the section that deals with Population, rather than just a listing of 'races' such as Dwarf, Elf, 1/2ling I would rather see coverage on general guidlines for consistently defining members of a specific race (more fleshed out than the Package Deal rules given in FREd), where to draw the line between stereotypical tendencies and actual inherent traits, and balancing 'PC' races available within a specific application against one another from the perspective of the HERO mechanics and tips on how to avoid making a particular race 'too good' or by ommission 'not good enough' compared to other options within a campaign.

 

Some inspection of Fantasy interbreeding wouldnt be amiss, exploring reasonable 'cross-breed' advantages & disadvantages and overall strength comparative to each of the subject's parent races. Also, an examination of the pros & cons of race restricted skills, talents, perks, and even powers, and how to consistently handle natural aptitudes for various things which are native to a race (are all Chartreuse Elves naturally better at Divination than all other races, should they bother to learn how to do it? How to reflect that systemically?).

 

Another key point would be how much of a limitation is it worth to only affect a specific race or archetype. Is Only vs Dwarves worth less than Only vs Elves if Elves are more common on average in the game world, or are they the same overall limit? What about Only vs Dragons in a Form Other than thier Base Form, if Dragons are uncommon but they 'polymorph' to masquerade among other peoples a lot? It is very specific and limiting, but it also serves as a de facto Detect Dragon power, as it would only hurt Dragons disguised as something else, making the effect it is attached to serve double duty. Things like this tend to come up a bit more in Fantasy games, as the idea of selective or 'smart' magic is pretty common to the genre and race specific "hate" and "buff" effects show up in the literature--particularly Dragonslaying type effects (and Demonslaying for that matter); some exploration of it either in the 'race' area or the 'magic' area would be well warranted.

 

 

 

Also, though I know the new official method of handling Characteristic Maximas for different races, an OPTIONAL RULE treatment or two for adjusted CHAR Maximas and a brief indication of pros/cons for using this method would be nice as well. Off the cuff, what if a Maxima for a race could be adjusted by buying down the Maxima for other statistics to buy up the Maxima for others, point for point? Obviously I can choose to implement this in my game (or any other mod for that matter), but some 'official' discourse on methods to portray the differing physical limits of different races would be nice.

 

I applaud the use of modular Package Deals such as you indicate will be used, having applied the stackable 'Template' concept for many years for Fantasy-based HERO games (Mnt Dwarf Template + Elite Guard Template + Resident of Kazuk-Dum Template....Microwave for 3 seconds and viola Elite Mnt Dwarf Guard at the gates of Kazuk-Dum, feeds a party 4!), but with the loss of the Package Deal Bonus, the Package deal has become purely an organizational aid. Taking that to its logical extent, larger scale Package Deals could exist, up to and including serving as a purely generic character. Rather than seeing a full blown listing of sample package after sample package, what I would like to see (perhaps in a addition to a list of Package Deals for the de riguer genre fantasy staples such as Elf, Dwarf etc) is treatment of methods to use Package Deals intelligently to ease the burden of providing antagonists and NPCs in a point based system.

 

Usage of solid generic Package Deals as 'Modules' or 'Assemblies' is basically Object-Oriented-HERO and if done well from the begining of a campaign following consistent guidelines can save a GM a huge amount of effort. (It also dovetails nicely with HERO Designer, using PREFABS, allowing a little cross-product synergy). In my opinion, while ALL genre's can benefit from using Packaged Deals in this fashion to some extent (for mooks if nothing else), the Fantasy genre absolutely thrives on it. A few paragraphs pointing this out and advocating thier use in a particular way could save a lot of people a lot of time and help to surmount the daunting challenge of having to roll your own EVERYTHING in a point based system. It also standardizes a format for material exchange between play groups, contributing to the communities ability to share.

 

Also of discussion should be the playability of non-anthropomorphic or unusual entities as PCs in a Fantasy game, the various treatments of 'monsters' mechanically (for a given campaign should monster races be handled exactly as races intended for play as PCs, with racial Package Deals and such like, or should they be broad-stroked), the level of detail advisable for such 'monsters' (are full character writeups necessary, or is combat effectiveness all that is necessary, with other elements such as more esoteric skills or abilities filled in as needed on the fly by the GM to further the storyline?), point scaling concepts (if possible a nice easy formulae to thumbnail calculate low, high, and median threats in character points based upon the average character points of a PC party), and some discourse on the scaling of 'monsters' (are all [insert creature type] roughly the same, or are they as dynamic as PCs?) .

 

 

Under the Magic section I strongly support your suggested approach to detail at a higher level several approaches to building Magic systems rather than just provide 1 'official' method such as in FH 4.

 

Preferrably in addition to providing several systems you wil also illustrate pros & cons of each system, or if you prefer to think of it the other way typing/categorizing them as role-fillers (ie, "if you want a Magic system wherein you have a large list of known spells, a certain smaller number of slots available per day from this list which can be cast per day and it takes a long period of rest (such as 8 hours of sleep) to refresh those slots, use this construct:GAMEMECHANICS. If you want a Magic system where you have a psuedo-scientific understanding of various 'laws' which drive various 'schools' or 'spheres' of Magic, and your ability to cast either spontaneous or rote-learned spells depends on your ability to apply this knowledge at the time of each casting and the limit of times you can cast these spells is determined not by a fixed number but by how much Endurance is available to you, use this construct: MOREGAMEMECHANICS; etc etc etc")

 

Also of interest to me would be some new ways to implement VPPs and perhaps MPPs. For example, I know you have no interest in providing direct conversion of existing game systems, but if you could be convinced to attempt to provide models that could be used/adapted pretty directly or at least come close to some of the more populer magic systems in play, it would only make the product stronger. The Magic system that has baffled me in times past as to how to adapt it cleanly into the HERO System is the Ars Magica system, and to a lesser extent its bastard progeny the Mage the Ascension system.

 

The two systems are of course different in significant ways, but at thier core they rely on the casters level of knowledge with a particular sphere or a combination thereof to determine both what power level of effect is possible and how successful the casting will be. Both allow 'spontaneous' magic use, and the use of more well defined rote effects, thought again they implement this a tad differently. Ive never been sure how to handle this in the HERO System. To my mind, its always seemed like a (very large in some cases) modified Cosmic VPP with Requires a Skill Roll, arrayed out to many different skills as applicable to the affect desired and some handwaving on how to use 'multisphere' effects (use the lowest skill involved most likely) and a further limitation of unknown value that the amount of points available to the effect is determined by the highest skill roll involved multiplied by 5 or some such. Obviously a lot of handwaving and system extention going on, and not really ideal.

 

In short, it would be nice to have an official method to go about accomplishing Magic systems that are at least similar in feel to some of the more popular magic systems that have cropped up in the industry over the last few decades.

 

Further the addition of some Magic specific variant Advantages and Limitations for VPP Control Costs would be great, and of course a solid examination of existing Advantages and Limitations, particularly Gestures, Incantations, Foci, Side Effects, and Variable Limitation (!), particularly on spells that are being accessed via a Cosmic VPP (ie, unless some other element plays a role, is it really valid to take Lims of this nature on a spell that can theoretically be altered at will to suit the present need?).

 

Also, how to handle fire & forget but persistent spells from VPPs?.

 

For example, lets say my Magic system is built out of a VPP and it is limited to only allow 1 spell in the VPP at a time, and that spell 'fades' from the VPP after it is used, requiring me to bring a new spell (or even the same spell) into the VPP after each casting. In this system, spells are ranked by 'Circles' which metagame-wise refers to the number of Active Points in the spell by increments of 10. The rules of the spell system dictate that all spells must cost END to cast, and cannot take Increased END. All spells are paid for from an END Pool, and the REC from the pool is so limited to restricit endless spell casting. I want to cast a Flight spell which will last for a set period of time; and while that spell is 'active', I want to be able to cast other spells. How to do this? Continuing Charges arent really appropriate as they dont cost END and thus violate the rule of the mini-system. 0 END Contin Uncontrolled would do it, but again break the rules of the mini-system. What would be perfect would be an extended Reduced Endurance option "0 END to maintain (+1/4); only applicable to constant powers that cost Endurance" (ie Costs END only to ACTIVATE applied in a larger scope than it currently is), but would it be appropriate in cases like this? Of course the stand by, with GM permission, taking into account common sense, etc answer applies here, but I mean more specifically, is this kind of handwaving recommended to handle defining a Magic system or would it be better to redesign the system to fit within the rules? In other words some advice on recommended tolerance levels for handwaving when it comes to defining a Magic system.

 

 

In short, Im personally much more interested in explicit examples of Magic systems, with well described meta-rules particular to that system, complete with barred and required Advantages and/or Limitations, recommendations to use that system in conjunction with a END Pool, specific Limitations on REC, etc than I am to see a canned magic system and spell lists.

 

 

 

Also in the Magic section, Magic Items. Of course the conundrum with any point based system is how to handle magic items. Should the characters have to pay for items? To duplicate some fantasy works this is managable as magic is very rare and often possession of a magic item IS what makes the possessor stand out from the rank and file, and the item is unlikely to be destroyed, except perhaps after the hero doesnt need it anymore or at the end of the story in climactic battle/encounter.

 

But in other ficion and particularly in FRPGs, its quite the opposite of course. Magic items come and go at a rapid pace. Paying for everything in character points doesnt really capture the feel of such settings. Each time the party takes down some villain, viola -- big time booty and some of it is bound to be magical.

 

Personally in the past in my higer powered fantasy campaigns, where magic was more prevalent, I mandated that all Magic Items had to be constructed Independent, Magic items could be bought and sold for money (at a premium of course), those making items paid for the item with thier character points normally, but when commisioned to make somthing specific, the points came from the commisioner. It worked out ok, but Ive always wondered if there werent a better way to do it that still captured the flavor of the millieu. I'd like to see more definition of the topic.

 

Also while on IND, Im also hoping to finally see more about how to design curses with IND as mentioned in FREd.

 

Finally in the Magic Section, I think it would be very good to generate a "Arcane Level" chart detailing a spectrum of various magical power levels and general bullet points of what is, not necessarily possible, but rather common at that level. This could permeate the spell systems and spell listings as well, showing which systems are higher or lower on the magic scale.

 

 

 

In the Economics section, I personally would rather see general rules for Money to Active Points than specific numbers. I think it should be based on a lowest common denominator; by defining the basic daily wage of an average unskilled laborer as (1d), it should be very easy to say define something along the lines of Poor Area (7d per 1 Active Points), Well-to-do Area (7d per 5 Active Points), Very Wealthy Area = (7d per 10 Active Points), or whatever seems appropriate (and perhaps more gradiation) with some math checking.

 

With a rule of thumb like that its easy to figure out what the actual denomination (maybe in some parts of the land trade is done primarily with the bartering of livestock; thus perhaps the average daily wage correlates roughly to half a chicken or 1/3 of a cow, where as elsewhere the locals use specially pressed Iron rather than the imperial standard (gold coin) etc etc), and daily wage is for a given area and viola, a ballpark value can quickly be arrived at relevant to the economy of the area at the time. Not an exacting method, but fast, easy, contextually relevant (as in the same item will cost more or less, if it is even available, depending upon where you are).

 

Id much rather see something like that than a list of items with an arbitrary gold cost associated with them.

 

As far as weapons are concerned, Im interested in seeing an optional layer of complexity added to weapons as suggested by some other posters above, but Im also interested in seeing the opposite, an optional generic system that presents Melee weapons purely as an expression of Martial Manuevers. Ie, rather than buy a weapon that does X Damage and has associated text abilities, which is combinable with a Martial Manuever assuming Weapon Elements and such align, instead just have a person purchase a manuever and define weapon element(s) that it applies to. It removes the issue of 'which weapon is better' altogether, and turns all weapons into an expression of a meduim by which damage is inflicted; its a question of which wielder is better.

 

I would rather see more options for how to handle weapons in general in fact, with pros and cons for each.

 

The genre is full of examples of dagger weilders going up against greatswordsmen with impunity, and killing opponents with one good stab. The fact is, there are places in the human body where all thats needed is 2 inches of penetration to kill; size of the blade is immaterial. Big weapons were a response to thick solid armor, they arent inherently more lethal or less lethal than smaller weapons, they are just bigger and allow more force to be applied.

 

I admit to not really getting where many posters are coming from in thier obsession with particular weapons over other weapons. Damage is all relative to the scope of a game anyway. As long as the relevant defenses scale with the relevant attacks, its all immaterial except to those lacking the relevant defense. If my sword does 4d6 K + Str, but everyones resistant defense is twice as high, then Im not really that much more effective. For that matter, my sword may do only 1d6, but if resistant defence is half as much on average then Im still just about as lethal. The only difference is time; when I do get thru with the bigger attack, Ill finish off an opponent about twice as fast and likewise if the smaller attack does get through Ill finish off the opponent about half as fast, with CON & BOD remaining the same across the board. If CON and BODY scale as well......

 

Thats all power scaling really accomplishes; its just an exclusionary process, resulting in a smaller elite set who are still relatively as balanced against one another as they were before all the scaling; they've just raised the bar beyond the ability of the lesser entities to match. Basically, the CHUMP quotient (the relative percentage of the population that are of absolutely no real threat to a character) grows but no significant advantage is gained versus the opponents that matter.

 

Further, as to players min maxing and taking the 1 'best' weapon, that sort of thing load balances with minimal GM involvement. If Players gravitate towards a particular weapon because its stat-ted better, then all you have to do to break them of the habit as the GM is reveal that some crafty armorsmith (pun intended) has created a better shield that is specifically suited to diminishing that particular weapons advantage (+2OCV to block only vs Weapon X, or +2 DCV, or extra Armor, or +2 to Disarm, etc etc etc), and its SWEEPING THE NATION! As the prevalence of the Shield grows, the prevalence if the abused weapon will dwindle, leading to fewer people using the Shield, leading to more people using the weapon again and so on and so on until some crafty weaponsmith makes a better weapon that counters the shield. Ie, it self-balances with just a nudge from the GM. And, since that basic pattern has been at the root of the arms race since the begining of recorded history (and before most likely), it even has the benefit of being true-to-life. Plus, if you didnt already know who they were, you get a feel for who the min maxers in the group are (which correlates to those whose characters need to be eyeballed a little closer than usual).

 

Because weapons are just a means of delivering damage, does it really matter if I kill my opponent with a Killing Attack with the SFX: Spear as opposed to a Killing Attack with the SFX: Glaive-guisarme or my Killing Attack with the SFX: Mystic Maelstrom of Murderous Mojo? No, not really, IMO.

 

Who cares if weapon A was designed in the early Whosawhatzit period as an answer to armor A, which reigned supreme for 50 years after its perfection in the late Blahziblahzee era in region A of country A on this planet and in our history, and its therefore inappropriate to display it in conjunction and concurrently with weapon b which didnt come into existance for another 80 years thereafter and on the other side of the globe at that?

 

Weapons are just vehicles to impart damage upon others within a fantasy millieu with no real connection to our own world or history beyond the fact that in imagining that world we are hampered by our own historical perspective and our conceptualization is therefore limited by our own narrow paradigm.

 

If you are running an historical reenactment in a setting native to Earth, then by all means its an important consideration, but that is not a FANTASY campaign, it is an HISTORICAL campaign. Perhaps one day HistoricalHERO will hit the shelves (I wouldnt hold my breath, but who knows) and certainly, for that prestigious product such details would matter, but they dont add up to 2 electrum pieces of value for FantasyHERO IMO.

 

Bravo to Steve for being upfront about it and not wasting time, energy, or precious page space on dry Weapons and Armanments readers.

 

 

 

IMO The weapon chart provided in FREd is pretty decent for most purposes. Id rather see some handling of tricky issues such as the Bow/Arrow [Magic|Not Magic] many to many disparity as pointed out above, examples on specific applications of fantasy-relevant Multipower-based weapons (like the 2 dimes and a nikel staff that does it all), and other such interesting applications of the unique portions of the HEROs mechanic than another list of endless weapons doing between xd6 and yd6 in endless permutations. Yawn. I can get that in ANY system.

 

By all means reprint and perhaps extend the low-tech weapons list from FREd, but what I expect from HEROs is more flexible ways of expresing my desired effects than I get elsewhere. I want more examples of how to buy Naked power advantages and powers with universal foci ("any longsword") applicable to melee and ranged weapons, advice on when its best to move to this sort of a mechanic, what subgenre's its most applicable to. I want more explanation on how to use existing weapons with existing martial arts. I want options options options, not Fantasy HERO Weapons List Mark V.

 

Of course I already know how to do most of these things and when to apply them, but do all my players? All the potential players I have yet to meet in life? Probably not. It would be nice if a categorical listing existed in the genre book, IMO, and thats what I hope to see.

 

 

Finally, though Ive got another 20 pages or so of ranting left in me on this subject, IMO the most important detail for Fantasy HERO is tips to the GM on how to foster and maintain the fantasy feel in HEROs, and not let the inherent techie-ness of the system interfere with the suspension of disbelief and mystical feel of a Fantasy setting. While it is great to be able to explicitly spec out a particular 'supernatural' story element, effect, or occurance, its crucial to mask that fact from the players IMO to maintain the mysterious and magical quality of the genre. Granted, for some subgenres (such as the Video Game FRPG ala Diablo or Dungeon Siege) this isnt really necessary as they are just modern expressions of hack & slash at its worst, but in general tips on how to hide the engine beneath the hood and ensure the players get a smooth ride would be a great addition to the GM section IMO.

 

All in all, Fantasy HERO is a big one to take a bite out of, and though in some ways I envy Steve his position for the opportunity to tackle it, on the other hand I dont know if I'd want to be in his shoes either However, based upon the incredible quality of everything DOJ has put out to date I have faith that it will be done and done well. It sounds corny, but I secretly worry that Steve will get burned out with the breakneck pace he keeps, particularly after inexplicalbe let downs like the ORIGINS debacle. I hope that Fantasy HERO isnt the straw which breaks the camels back

 

Whew, enough text.....

 

Good Luck Steve, and make mine HEROs!

 

[Old Man]

Jeez, man, how long did it take you to type all that?

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by Old Man

Jeez, man, how long did it take you to type all that?

If it had taken much longer I would have had to change my name to Old Man II

[Muawijhe]

Everyone else seems to have at one point or another covered everything I do and don't want to see in FH, and that in turn has only gotten me more hyped for the release of this book. So hyped, in fact, that as a long time lurker I've actually decided to sign up for a forum account here.

 

What'd I would like to see, not so much *in* FH as *about* FH, is how much longer? How long must I wait!? Ahhhh! My money is saved...all the other books bought...cannot wait! =)

[Steve Long]

FH is scheduled for release at GenCon, in late July. I'm currently writing and in Chapter Two. Whether it makes GenCon is going to depend largely on how onerous the editing chores are on the three books that are about to hit my desk. If they go easy, it's still possible. If they take up a lot of my time, FH is likely to end up coming out in August.

[ShadowRaptor]

how big

 

how big do you approximate the book to be? Would it be possible for you to post a brief snippet of the book for us to savor and drool over until you release it?

[Lord Liaden]

Originally posted by Steve Long

FH is scheduled for release at GenCon, in late July. I'm currently writing and in Chapter Two. Whether it makes GenCon is going to depend largely on how onerous the editing chores are on the three books that are about to hit my desk. If they go easy, it's still possible. If they take up a lot of my time, FH is likely to end up coming out in August.

 

Steve, considering how important a genre book FH is going to be, and the promotional value of having it debut at GenCon, perhaps you should consider delaying the editing and release of one of those books if it's needed to let you finish FH in time. I understand that you don't want to interrupt the publishing schedule, but all things considered I'd bet that the majority of fans would understand the long-term benefits.

 

Of course, you know your situation best.

[Steve Long]

If that were feasible, LL, we'd've done it months ago. But it's not feasible -- if books don't come out regularly, no income. No income, company goes out of business. Then no books at all. Taking a month, much less two, off the production schedule is not a good way for us to conduct business.

 

Ultimately, not having FH at GenCon isn't particularly problematic. I'd like to have it there, because I always like to have a new book for a big show, but that's just personal preference. The "promotional" benefits are minimal (at best), since such a tiny percentage of gamers go to GenCon or pay attention to what happens there. Hero fans who want the book will buy it when we can make it available; those who have no interest in buying it aren't going to just because it's at GenCon. All we really lose is the difference in price between a direct sale and a distribution sale for a couple hundred books, which isn't anywhere close to enough to make up for dropping books from the schedule altogether.

 

Regardless of which, I'm still working as hard as I can to get it ready on time.

 

But, enough maundering off-topic. Anyone have any further suggestions about the content of FH?