Gods and Champions

[Metaphysician]

Re: Gods and Champions

 

Frankly, I really liked Zauriel. Its a pity he doesn't show up more often.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Gods and Champions

 

Doesn't it seem that religous based Superheroes get a sort of lopsided treatment? Characters like Thor, Hercules and others never seem to catch much flak for claiming to be pagan gods and such, but Christian based supers are either unheard of or portrayed as over zealous wack jobs. I'm not a particularly religous person so please don't take this a some sort of rant, just something I've noticed.

 

I think characters like Thor should be facing some major PR issues, more so than mutant really. Claiming not only to be divine, but Pagan would raise some serious issues in some places. Maybe there would be an organization like the Church of the Archangel Michael or other mutant hate groups, but religously inspired and dedicated to putting down/debunking the false gods. Has anyone done anything like this in their campaigns?

 

I just kinda skimmed the threads so far. Having once played in a game that featured a good half-dozen divine avatars, ranging from the Egyptian to the Native American (I kept waiting for the press to dub the team "The God Squad"), I've never really seen it. Primarily because nobody *believes* it.

 

I think that the body-on-the-street thinks that people like Thor and Hercules are just picking those names, based on mythological beings, because they have powers that happen to match, kind of like old Pro Wrestlers like Zeus and, again, Hercules.

 

Another thing comes down to just how one defines 'god' vs 'God', for lack of a better way to put it. Thor and Hercules and their ilk are extra-dimensional beings who were once worshipped by humanity and possess significant power. God, in the Christian sense, is a being of unproven existance in whom people have faith. Nobody worships Thor or Hercules anymore (at least, not in an organized sense, as far as I know), so nobody raises a fuss.

 

Now, the Spider-Man 2099 comic did an interesting take on this ... Thor actually had a following of worshippers, dubbed simply enough 'Thorites'. I've never done anything like this ... I prefer to keep religious themes out of my games, of all sorts.

[Koshka]

Re: Gods and Champions

 

Nobody worships Thor or Hercules anymore (at least, not in an organized sense, as far as I know), so nobody raises a fuss.

 

I don't know about "organized", but I know there's groups worshipping the Norse deities. The only ones I've heard of worshipping Greek deities are specifically worshipping the Greek goddesses (so Hercules doesn't qualify ), but there may be some out there who worship the whole pantheon.

 

However, I lost several of my contacts when the new age bookstore that carried my stained glass on consignment closed, so I may be way out of date here.

[Guest Worldmaker]

Re: Gods and Champions

 

The Rapture. All the members were named for different [book: Chapter: Verse] passages from the Bible.

 

 

Does anyone know where I can get more information on this team?

[megaplayboy]

Re: Gods and Champions

 

hmm...I've played a couple gods, demigods, even metagods, and have had players who had angelic, demonic, or divine PCs. The full religious implications never got too heavy in terms of public relations, but there were a few clashes here and there...we had an angel and a half-demon and a pagan demigod on one team at the same time

[Enforcer84]

Re: Gods and Champions

 

hmm...I've played a couple gods' date=' demigods, even metagods, and have had players who had angelic, demonic, or divine PCs. The full religious implications never got too heavy in terms of public relations, but there were a few clashes here and there...we had an angel and a half-demon and a pagan demigod on one team at the same time [/quote']

Team meetings must have been an experience in frustration for everyone.

[megaplayboy]

Re: Gods and Champions

 

Team meetings must have been an experience in frustration for everyone.

 

well, generally it was bad form to try to convert anyone at the team meetings

 

In a more recent game, there was a PC priest of Imhotep and a very devout Christian on the same team...that got a little heated...

[Just A Guy Name]

Re: Gods and Champions

 

Does anyone know where I can get more information on this team?

I wish I could help you out more' date=' Worldm, but my comics collection was purged a long time ago. That particular storyline of [u']The Elementals[/u] (featuring The Rapture) was not one that I liked and I cannot recall any details about it, or them, now. I got their individual names from the international hero site. They were: Exodus 10:21, Genesis 6:4, Isaiah 6:2, Judges 15:14, Leviticus 26:22, and Matthew 27:51.

[Doctor Agenda]

Re: Gods and Champions

 

I have a thing for playing myth-based characters, I even ran a campaign with a team premise that everyone's character would have a origin related to myth or at least a myth-based theme. I used the standard cop-out that the general public thought characters like Marduk and Magni picked their names 'cause they thought they sound kewl. Marduk was always meaning to get his religion restarted, though...he was just too busy to give it enough attention.

[megaplayboy]

Re: Gods and Champions

 

A friend and I were joking around about a mild mannered virtuous guy stuck in a barn who tries to escape by striking the barn door with a simple pitchfork...Boom!

"Whosover holds this pitchfork, if he be worthy, shall possess the power of..."

 

For some reason The Mighty Satan had a very hard time getting into any superhero team..."our publicist threatened to quit if we let you in"...

[BNakagawa]

Re: Gods and Champions

 

Christianity, Judaism and Islam are loaded guns. Using one of them as an origin for a character is not necessarily guaranteed to set one off, but it is a risk.

 

There are plenty of people in the world who have suffered at the hands of Catholics, protestants, zionists or muslims acting with the blessings of their churches. There aren't a lot of people alive right now who have suffered at the hands of priests or zealots of Zeus, Isis or Frey.

 

You're much less likely to set someone off with a character whose backdrop is drawn from the history books. Unless of course you intend to use that as an excuse to act in a manner that is guaranteed to draw a reaction. Like eating the brains of your vanquished foes or sacrificing the hearts of captured enemies on top of a pyramid to keep the sun fed.

 

Religious freedom grants many rights, but breaking laws isn't one of them. Santeria practitioners are allowed to sacrifice animals as part of their rituals, they aren't however allowed to keep them in squalid conditions while they await their date with destiny. Go figure.

 

Still, there are plenty of compelling storylines involving the religions of the book, and if you think your group is mature enough to enjoy and handle that sort of thing, then go for it.

[Sociotard]

Re: Gods and Champions

 

It's happened in our group a couple of times. I've posted my writeup of Porter Rockwell on the Other Genres boards (Real Guy. According to all the stories surrounding him, he was blessed with being bulletproof), so there's recieved powers from God. I once played the Greek god Helios, so there's being inherently divine.

 

As for in the Comics . . . I don't remember exactly, but I thought there was a marvel character who had the God-given ability to see visions, future, past, and whatever. He was in that wonderful trade "Marvels". The guy who narrated most of the book, while that gargoyle guy wrote it all down.

[Nightfire]

Re: Gods and Champions

 

I run an extremely complex campaign that exists on many layers, and one of the layers is that of the interaction between gods and mortals. All the pantheonic religions exist, and it made for some facinating story lines. I had to examine how different religions would have had to evolve through the ages and how they might intereact. I even had the opporuntiy to explore the implications for a goddess who had lost all her worshippers over time, and was being sustained by the devotion of one solitary player charcater.

 

Amongst the religious interactions, there was a priestess of Apollo who was the chief medical Examiner for NYC because she could talk to the dead. One player played the Arch-Angel Michael who had to answer directly to the Pope when on Earth. There is an Islamic character called the Desert Lion who gained his powers centuries ago when he touched the holy ka'Ba meteor at Mecca. He had to reconcile the possibility that his powers might have been owed more to ancient gods than Allah, but descided that the even if the source of the powers were possibily pagan dieties, his own God had deigned that he should use that power in his service.

 

As long as players and GM are willing to keep an open mind religion can be a fulfilling and enlightening part of the game.

[Guest Worldmaker]

Re: Gods and Champions

 

I wish I could help you out more' date=' Worldm, but my comics collection was purged a long time ago. That particular storyline of [u']The Elementals[/u] (featuring The Rapture) was not one that I liked and I cannot recall any details about it, or them, now. I got their individual names from the international hero site. They were: Exodus 10:21, Genesis 6:4, Isaiah 6:2, Judges 15:14, Leviticus 26:22, and Matthew 27:51.

 

 

That's really all I needed, thanks.

[Metaphysician]

Re: Gods and Champions

 

It's happened in our group a couple of times. I've posted my writeup of Porter Rockwell on the Other Genres boards (Real Guy. According to all the stories surrounding him, he was blessed with being bulletproof), so there's recieved powers from God. I once played the Greek god Helios, so there's being inherently divine.

 

As for in the Comics . . . I don't remember exactly, but I thought there was a marvel character who had the God-given ability to see visions, future, past, and whatever. He was in that wonderful trade "Marvels". The guy who narrated most of the book, while that gargoyle guy wrote it all down.

 

Your thinking of Kyle Richmond, and he appeared in Universe X, not Marvels.

 

Oh, and the eyes weren't actually from God, but I won't spoil beyond that. . .

[Chuckg]

Re: Gods and Champions

 

For some reason The Mighty Satan had a very hard time getting into any superhero team..."our publicist threatened to quit if we let you in"...

 

Heh. Reminds me of the short story somebody published(*) about how a ghost in the Old West kept trying, and failing, and trying over and over again, to offer people a chance to become infused with the mystic powers of an ancient Indian symbol of good fortune. Along with it came the magic costume (which couldn't be changed), which had that symbol prominently displayed as the chest emblem.

 

For some reason, nobody wanted to be Captain Swastika.

 

 

(*) It was in that 'Superheroes' anthology of short stories edited by John Varley, but I can't recall who the author was.

[fbdaury]

Re: Gods and Champions

 

The Kevin Smith arcs of both Daredevil and Green Arrow dealt with the christian mythos in a fairly even-handed way: Smith, himself a catholic, seems to be able to handle investigation of religious matters without getting ovely preachy or offensive either.

[zornwil]

Re: Gods and Champions

 

I don't think pagan-based characters, so long as they're doing ancient gods, will get flak because those ancient gods aren't seen as real and the heroes are seen as iconic representations. I think they'd get PR trouble, though,if they acted out.

 

As in Thor talking to the media, "You should all bow down to Odin, he does not appreciate you and your Christian 'god' and that pretender 'Jesus'!" Now that would make for interesting social lims and controversy.

[nexus]

Re: Gods and Champions

 

I don't think pagan-based characters, so long as they're doing ancient gods, will get flak because those ancient gods aren't seen as real and the heroes are seen as iconic representations. I think they'd get PR trouble, though,if they acted out.

 

As in Thor talking to the media, "You should all bow down to Odin, he does not appreciate you and your Christian 'god' and that pretender 'Jesus'!" Now that would make for interesting social lims and controversy.

 

True, but I'd think there'd be some flak on a certain level. I mean there are some really obessive fundamentalist types that would take offense at any reference to other deites besides the Christian one being legitimate.

[JeffreyWKramer]

Re: Gods and Champions

 

True' date=' but I'd think there'd be some flak on a certain level. I mean there are some really obessive fundamentalist types that would take offense at any reference to other deites besides the Christian one being legitimate.[/quote']

 

 

Maybe in the CU, there are fewer of that particular brand of lunatic, which is balanced by the presence of super-powered lunatics in tights.

 

Seriously, it would obviously be much harder to maintain some fairly extremist world-views in a world where they were demonstrably false - or at very least where there was open evidence for questioning such views.

 

In my own campaign, Horus-Re - a demi-god, the son of a divine entity - is not a favorite of many fundamentalist Christians and Muslims or higher-ups in the various Judeo/Christian/Islamic heirarchies, but relatively few speak out against him openly because he is a very popular figure who has done a lot of very public, very heroic deeds. He does have some who worship him, and he accepts them and offers them advice and support, but he does not particularly seek out worshippers, try to convert people, etc.

[nexus]

Re: Gods and Champions

 

Maybe in the CU, there are fewer of that particular brand of lunatic, which is balanced by the presence of super-powered lunatics in tights.

 

Seriously, it would obviously be much harder to maintain some fairly extremist world-views in a world where they were demonstrably false - or at very least where there was open evidence for questioning such views.

 

In my own campaign, Horus-Re - a demi-god, the son of a divine entity - is not a favorite of many fundamentalist Christians and Muslims or higher-ups in the various Judeo/Christian/Islamic heirarchies, but relatively few speak out against him openly because he is a very popular figure who has done a lot of very public, very heroic deeds. He does have some who worship him, and he accepts them and offers them advice and support, but he does not particularly seek out worshippers, try to convert people, etc.

 

Never doubt the power of human fanaticism and denial, particularly about spiritual matters. There are people now who will fanatically deny that the Earth is more then 6000 years, that life forms change over time, several laws of physics, etc because their faith does not include them. Super Powered Gods are "clearly" pawns of the devil, sent to distract true believers from the path of righteousness and into idolotry. "The Devil can wear a pleasing face when it suits him", etc etc.

 

Or on the other end, seems like there should be some major crisis of faith among some crowds. After all, here is "proof" of such and such a god. you can see him, touch him, etc. You could run some interesting role playing subplots and background material with this sort of thing, if you were so inclined.

[OddHat]

Re: Gods and Champions

 

Also, "Super" worlds have proof of the existence of the soul, the afterlife, demons and angels, possession ... I'd expect every church and every cult to be packed in a Supers world. Europe would be as religious as America, or more so. Religions would have far more political power as religious Supers offered their very physical services to their religious leaders. The Middle East would look completely different if the Islamic countries had supers, and the Pope would have incredible power. From a geo-political POV India and China would be even more important with their huge populations of Supers, unless they broke down completely into dozens of smaller Super-ruled countries.

 

Psychologists would laugh at Psychiatrists, as the brain would clearly be more than just the sum total of its chemical reactions. New Age doctors would get far more respect, thanks to the tiny percentage that actuall could cure cancer with crystals. Black and Latino supers would be a real force in American politics, and the Michigan Millitia would be backed by their own super teams ...

 

Heck, Wild Cards was an understatement.

[zornwil]

Re: Gods and Champions

 

True' date=' but I'd think there'd be some flak on a certain level. I mean there are some really obessive fundamentalist types that would take offense at any reference to other deites besides the Christian one being legitimate.[/quote']

Fair point, but I think that flak would be minimized the same way it is now in the mainstream media - they're always objecting to something and in many (not all of course) cases simply ridiculed for it.

[zornwil]

Re: Gods and Champions

 

Also, "Super" worlds have proof of the existence of the soul, the afterlife, demons and angels, possession ... I'd expect every church and every cult to be packed in a Supers world. Europe would be as religious as America, or more so. Religions would have far more political power as religious Supers offered their very physical services to their religious leaders. The Middle East would look completely different if the Islamic countries had supers, and the Pope would have incredible power. From a geo-political POV India and China would be even more important with their huge populations of Supers, unless they broke down completely into dozens of smaller Super-ruled countries.

 

Psychologists would laugh at Psychiatrists, as the brain would clearly be more than just the sum total of its chemical reactions. New Age doctors would get far more respect, thanks to the tiny percentage that actuall could cure cancer with crystals. Black and Latino supers would be a real force in American politics, and the Michigan Millitia would be backed by their own super teams ...

 

Heck, Wild Cards was an understatement.

Depends a lot on the universe, many times it's easy to rationalize (rightly or wrongly) the supers who appear more mystical or what-not.

[OddHat]

Re: Gods and Champions

 

Depends a lot on the universe' date=' many times it's easy to rationalize (rightly or wrongly) the supers who appear more mystical or what-not.[/quote']

 

Well, it depends on the writers.