Brandi Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 Re: Who was the LAMEST? Be fair. Wolverine didn't always suck. When he was written by Claremont, he was cool. Uh, you never actually *read* the first issue of the Claremont solo Wolverine comic back in 1988, did you? Claremont was obviously going down a list and checking bits off as he went along... "Okay, 'I'm the best there is at what I do', got that-- telling the reader about his healing factor, check-- mentioning that adamantium is the hardest stuff around, gotcha..." Awful. I think he churned it out as fast as he could so he could get back to Excalibur. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phydaux Posted October 21, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 Re: Who was the LAMEST? Power Pack. James Bond Jr. Defenders of Dynatron City I'd forgotten the Power Pack and James Bond Jr. Those were two mistakes, to be sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 Re: Who was the LAMEST? Well, that's Claremont. As I mentioned before, he comes from an old school where you didn't have the recap spalsh pages on comics that you have today. So the first two things he did were 1)Character Exposition about the story so far, 2)Character Exposition about their own abilities. Basically, he treated and still treats everyone like they've never seen an issue of the comic before and have never heard of them before. I think I still have my first issues of the original series. Haven't looked at them since the first week I got them. But what I remember is more that I was unimpressed about the story and it's kind of pedestrian approach, with wolverine hanging out in some S***hole dive in a foreign country with the other scum, like a the beginning of a D&D assassin adventure. I don't think the series was bad, just unremarkable. But now I may have to break it back out. I may be back to sustain you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assault Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 Re: Who was the LAMEST? Power-wise' date=' the lamest had to be Jimmy Olsen, since not only he did not (usually) have superpowers....but he didn't even have any great skills like Lois Lane, who was a great investigative reporter (despite missing the biggest story around every issue).[/quote'] Actually Jimmy had more skills than you can poke a stick at. He was a master of disguise, could drive/fly/operate _anything_, and had a mean Sunday Punch (on at least some occasions). His main power, however, was maintaining a straight face during some of the most ludicrous plots ever. It was a great title. And then Jack Kirby came along and added all these lame characters like Darkseid. Finally, I will raise my hand in Power Pack's defence. They weren't even nearly as bad as some of the other works of "art" that have been mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobCRogers Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 Re: Who was the LAMEST? Didn't they try to make the Green Goblin a hero, too? The Green freakin Goblin. Next, the Joker has a sudden change of heart: "Hey, I've been killing people, and killing is wrong! From now on I will use my psychotic antisocial behaviour and deadly poisons for good!" The Green Goblin hero wasn't the original Green Goblin. He was a kid who found the suit, equipment, etc. and decided to be a superhero. Not a terrible character or book, really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 Re: Who was the LAMEST? Venom. Did Sabertooth get his own comic? That one would suck. The Punisher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rbezold Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 Re: Who was the LAMEST? No, lamest of the lame is the VENOM: Lethal Protector series. You know, until you said that, I would have gone with 'NFL Superpro'. But your right. It was stories like those that led to the collapse of the comic book market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrosshairCollie Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 Re: Who was the LAMEST? After more than a decade' date=' I still have no freaking clue what Cable's powers actually are. Near as I can tell, he has the mutant power to grimace and look bad-ass.[/quote'] Cable was/is a telepath and a telekinetic, though is power level/skills with the power was so pathetically low it was virtually useless in combat situations, so he just used it for stuff like getting a tool from across the room. His bionic parts were, apparently, a controlled version of the techno-virus (see: Warlock, Magus, the Phalanx). He obviously got his powes from his mother (Jean Grey). Of curious note: when Cable's mutant powers are neutralized, he loses the ability to move his bionic arm. For the record, I vote against Cable's series being lame. Cable was lame when New Mutants/X-Force were being written/plotted by Liefeld, with Nicieza just providing dialogue. Once Nicieza took over both plotting and dialogue, Cable became significantly less of a 'mysterious loner' and WAY less of a 'kill first ask questions later' sort. He actually got kinda likeable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Champsguy Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 Re: Who was the LAMEST? NFL Superpro... US1... Ooh, the choices are so many... I guess we're limiting this to the relatively modern era, so nobody whips out some crap from the '40s. I'm going to go with the ProStars. They had their own cartoon. I think they might have had their own comic. Overall, they were pretty lame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 Re: Who was the LAMEST? Didn't they try to make the Green Goblin a hero, too? The Green freakin Goblin. IIRC the heroic Green Goblin was a guy (college student?) who found the Green Goblin gear and decided to be a superhero. It's been several years since I read any of the issues, but I remember it being decent fare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 Re: Who was the LAMEST? Ravage 2099. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 Re: Who was the LAMEST? The Green Goblin hero wasn't the original Green Goblin. He was a kid who found the suit' date=' equipment, etc. and decided to be a superhero. Not a terrible character or book, really.[/quote'] I did not know that. I'll lessen my dire accusation, though the idea that someone would decide to adopt an infamous villain's identity to become a hero still strikes me as dubious...but I will reserve further judgment until I read the book. Re: Jimmy Olsen--Jimmy was a great non sidekick sidekick. I enjoyed a lot of his "Mister Action" stories. Mmmmm...cheesey Re: Punisher--Yes. The lamest. Hands down. Another villain turned "superhero." : Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 Re: Who was the LAMEST? Ravage 2099. Waitaminnit...you saw that too? I thought it was some sort of warped nightmare creation in my mind... Man, this thing redefined bad. (And I almost had it out of my mind forever, thank you very much! ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 Re: Who was the LAMEST? It's typically people who read the Punisher comics looking for a superhero who think he's a "lame" character. The Punisher wasn't ever supposed to be a superhero, despite the poorly-conceived crossovers with Wolverine, Ghost Rider, whoever. Sometimes, they actually publish comic books that aren't 4-color superhero 1948 golden-right vs darkest-wrong morality tales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KA. Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 Re: Who was the LAMEST? I also have to respond in defense of Power Pack. I liked it a lot. For one thing, it was a little less dark than some of the other stuff at the time. And, for all you "haters", just remember that if it had been published in Japan, everyone had eyes like saucers, and the girls were a couple years closer to puberty, it would be considered unbelievably brilliant. Rom was cool, too. It is a shame that they crapped on the last issue. KA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 Re: Who was the LAMEST? Someone badmouthed power-pack? And Ben hasn't banned them yet? He's either not seen it yet or he's exercising remarkable self-control these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmutant Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 Re: Who was the LAMEST? The Human Fly -"The Greatest Superhero of Them All. Because He's Real" KISS. (Okay, I win). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 Re: Who was the LAMEST? Got to be the original Thor. His secret ID had a walking stick. I assume that was what you meant? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Champsguy Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 Re: Who was the LAMEST? Sometimes, they actually publish comic books that aren't 4-color superhero 1948 golden-right vs darkest-wrong morality tales. And sometimes they publish comics where 16 year old girls get raped by tentacle demons. What's your point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
levi Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 Re: Who was the LAMEST? It's typically people who read the Punisher comics looking for a superhero who think he's a "lame" character. The Punisher wasn't ever supposed to be a superhero' date=' despite the poorly-conceived crossovers with Wolverine, Ghost Rider, whoever....[/quote'] No. He was a rip off of the Executioner series of novels by Pendleton. I don't know how Marvel hasn't gotten sued, heck maybe they have. http://www.donpendleton.com/executionerwarwagon.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 Re: Who was the LAMEST? Waitaminnit...you saw that too? I thought it was some sort of warped nightmare creation in my mind... Man' date=' this thing redefined bad. (And I almost had it out of my mind forever, thank you very much! )[/quote'] That guy deflected whatever bullet/slug/ray late 21st century weapons fire... with a thrash can lid. He defied NY's police force on a converted garbage truck. He found Reed Richard's invantions in a dump... and improved on them without having any technical skill. And that was before he developed mutations. How could I forget that? I tried to scrub that out of my brain, but I failed. Ravage was the worst piece of snap ever written by good old smilin' Stan Lee in his long career. It made me develop a healthy fear of the damage senility can cause to a brilliant mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted October 23, 2004 Report Share Posted October 23, 2004 Re: Who was the LAMEST? And sometimes they publish comics where 16 year old girls get raped by tentacle demons. What's your point? Just that it's not fair to judge one by the standards of the other. Bashing The Punisher because it's not a superhero comic is like judging a pot roast by the standards used to judge a chicked pot pie -- if you came in expecting a chicken pot pie, the pot roast isn't necessarily going to fare well. (What other standards you might judge your example by are another story.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrosshairCollie Posted October 23, 2004 Report Share Posted October 23, 2004 Re: Who was the LAMEST? Just that it's not fair to judge one by the standards of the other. Bashing The Punisher because it's not a superhero comic is like judging a pot roast by the standards used to judge a chicked pot pie -- if you came in expecting a chicken pot pie, the pot roast isn't necessarily going to fare well. (What other standards you might judge your example by are another story.) Note that the original question wasn't a matter of, necessarily, super-hero comics. It was a matter of asking who was lame and got a book. The Punisher is lame because he has NO personality whatsoever beyond his bad attitude and lame-ass vengeance psychosis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted October 23, 2004 Report Share Posted October 23, 2004 Re: Who was the LAMEST? Note that the original question wasn't a matter of' date=' necessarily, super-hero comics. It was a matter of asking who was lame and got a book. The Punisher is lame because he has NO personality whatsoever beyond his bad attitude and lame-ass vengeance psychosis.[/quote'] Sounds like you read half a bad issue. Maybe I should judge Cap by the three or so "Commie-Busting" issues? Anyway, note that I was responding to the following: Re: Punisher--Yes. The lamest. Hands down. Another villain turned "superhero." : and that my point was that the Punisher was never, IMO a "supervillain" or a "superhero", and that judging the character or the comic by the standards and expectations of the superheroic genre -- especially the 4-color subgenre -- isn't really fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitewings Posted October 23, 2004 Report Share Posted October 23, 2004 Re: Who was the LAMEST? Sounds like you read half a bad issue. Maybe I should judge Cap by the three or so "Commie-Busting" issues? Anyway, note that I was responding to the following: and that my point was that the Punisher was never, IMO a "supervillain" or a "superhero", and that judging the character or the comic by the standards and expectations of the superheroic genre -- especially the 4-color subgenre -- isn't really fair. It is, because he's presented as a superhero in the context of a fictional universe populated by superheroes with whom he interacts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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