Eyendasky80 Posted December 3, 2004 Report Share Posted December 3, 2004 I'm building Juggernaut who's schtick is being completely unstoppable. So I was thinking about using tunneling, above ground only, to represent his busting down walls and such. But, can you only "tunnel" when you are physically breaking through a wall/obstacle? I'd like to be able to do move thoughs through walls and characters in one attack. Like a super move through. So I was thinking if you could, it'd be worth the points to buy enough tunneling (especially after disads) to do effective movethroughs that cut through walls and other obstacles like butter. What do you think? Can't recall if it's even legal, but I doubt it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawksmoor Posted December 3, 2004 Report Share Posted December 3, 2004 Re: Unstoppable Without the book in front of me I think that it is legal. I wouldn't apply the limitation Above ground only though, but more on that later. Tunnelling is a movement power, pure and simple. Therefore there should be no concerns about using tunnelling in a movethrough. OTOH what is air but a 0DEF 0Body obstacle anyway? Now why don't you want to apply the Limitation? Because dropping buildings on you, falling into wet cement and the like are (should) be common parts of Juggernauts day. Hence you should be able to shoulder your way through them with ease. Hence Tunnelling. Say 7" through 31 DEF it will only cost you a mere 107 CP but nothing on the globe would stop you! Not even those pesky entangles! Hawksmoor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme Serpent Posted December 3, 2004 Report Share Posted December 3, 2004 Re: Unstoppable Tunnelling's movement, right? What would be the problem doing a move-through with it? Not the most common use, granted, but how common is tunnelling to begin with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyendasky80 Posted December 3, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2004 Re: Unstoppable Some limitation should be legal without sacrificing bulldozing out of stuff dropped on you. He doesn't dig, so the power is less effective for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fbdaury Posted December 3, 2004 Report Share Posted December 3, 2004 Re: Unstoppable Extra strength, only while in motion(-1/2), lots and lots of extra strength, only for casual strength(-1/2), only to break/destroy obstacles without stopping(-1/2), etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyendasky80 Posted December 3, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2004 Re: Unstoppable Thought of that, then thought of tunnelling. Once I'm clear on what's legal, I'll look at what's the most effective/economic way to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackCobra Posted December 4, 2004 Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 Re: Unstoppable Tunneling, schmunneling --- I say, do everything with Casual Strength. Just make sure Juggernaut has enough raw strength (he's supposed to be super-duper strong, right?) to simply bull through walls without stopping. If you can go through it with your casual strength, you don't have to stop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted December 4, 2004 Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 Re: Unstoppable I pretty much agree with the Causal STR idea. He does not tunnel. Give him the maximum STR you allow in your campaign, say 120 for example. Now give him +60 STR, No Figured Characteristics, Casual STR only (-1). Massive KB resistance (-24" or so) would help as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kal'daka Posted December 4, 2004 Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 Re: Unstoppable I gave him a 250 STR... plus rege augmented STR for his brick tricks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted December 4, 2004 Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 Re: Unstoppable 250? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tech Posted December 4, 2004 Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 Re: Unstoppable I gave him a 250 STR... plus rege augmented STR for his brick tricks I hope that full 250 Str isn't usuable against heroes. "50d6 Punch at you - you're splatted." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kal'daka Posted December 4, 2004 Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 Re: Unstoppable I had a PC create a race known as Golemians.... they average 100 - 200 STR plus high PD and Damage reduction Physical... 250 did not seem like a stretch for the Juggernaugt.. in Marvel terms he had a Class 1000 STR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapier Posted December 4, 2004 Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 Re: Unstoppable "50d6 Punch at you - you're splatted." While I have that many dice in my bag...I would hate to have to roll em. Can you imagine the 4 minutes it would take to calc BODY? I think 250 is a bit...overzealuous. Isnt that a lifting of like 1 trillion tons or something? 50d6 is approaching, if not over your average planet buster, neh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WhammeWhamme Posted December 4, 2004 Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 Re: Unstoppable While I have that many dice in my bag...I would hate to have to roll em. Can you imagine the 4 minutes it would take to calc BODY? I think 250 is a bit...overzealuous. Isnt that a lifting of like 1 trillion tons or something? 50d6 is approaching, if not over your average planet buster, neh? 26,843,545,600,000 tons (I may be off by a few doublings) So significantly beyond 1 trillion tons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapier Posted December 4, 2004 Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 Re: Unstoppable 26,843,545,600,000 tons (I may be off by a few doublings) So significantly beyond 1 trillion tons. Yeah, I knew I was lowballing it. 200 STR is like 250 million tons. At any rate. 250 STR is a mite excessive. What's the mass of the moon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted December 4, 2004 Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 Re: Unstoppable I had a PC create a race known as Golemians.... they average 100 - 200 STR plus high PD and Damage reduction Physical... 250 did not seem like a stretch for the Juggernaugt.. in Marvel terms he had a Class 1000 STR The problem there is the Golemians. As for Marvel...Juggernaut has whatever the strength the hack currently writing him feels like he needs on that page. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrosshairCollie Posted December 4, 2004 Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 Re: Unstoppable The problem there is the Golemians. As for Marvel...Juggernaut has whatever the strength the hack currently writing him feels like he needs on that page. Actually, according to the Official Handbook of the Marvel U, Juggernaut has Superhuman Class 100, not 1000, strength, meaning his lift is 100 tons. So, actually, that's about a 60. Now, another 250 STR, Casual Only, wouldn't be so bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamashii2000 Posted December 4, 2004 Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 Re: Unstoppable But, can you only "tunnel" when you are physically breaking through a wall/obstacle? I'd like to be able to do move thoughs through walls and characters in one attack. Can't recall if it's even legal, but I doubt it. Fred has an example power under tunneling called "superstrength bust through" for smashing through walls easly..so Yep. I would say its legal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magmarock Posted December 4, 2004 Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 Re: Unstoppable Not even those pesky entangles! Except that, I think, you have to break out of an entangle before you can use a movement power. Geez, now I gotta look it up. Mags EDIT: Ok, Under Tunneling (FReD, page 155, right column, second paragraph, first sentence): "A character trapped in an Entangle cannot use Tunneling to escape from it." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyendasky80 Posted December 5, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 Re: Unstoppable Fred has an example power under tunneling called "superstrength bust through" for smashing through walls easly..so Yep. I would say its legal Okay mr. Rollyeyesmcgee you're absolutely right about that. But my question is, is it legal to use tunneling above ground to perform a move through? The effect I want is him just mowing through everything in his path. Not: runrunrunrun stop tunnel through wall runrunrunrunr stop tunnel through wall runrunrunrun. The superstrength bust through is exactly what inspired me to use tunneling to simulate the unstoppable, but I don't know if you can tunnel above ground without having anything to actually tunnel through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapier Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 Re: Unstoppable EDIT: Ok, Under Tunneling (FReD, page 155, right column, second paragraph, first sentence): "A character trapped in an Entangle cannot use Tunneling to escape from it." As a rule, I agree. But sometimes SFX (ye grande olde trumpe carde) would warrant that a movement power can help you break out of an entangle. If you are stick in a goo-blob entangle your jet pack flight may help you to bust on out. But as a rule of thumb.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KA. Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 Re: Unstoppable Okay mr. Rollyeyesmcgee you're absolutely right about that. But my question is, is it legal to use tunneling above ground to perform a move through? The effect I want is him just mowing through everything in his path. Not: runrunrunrun stop tunnel through wall runrunrunrunr stop tunnel through wall runrunrunrun. The superstrength bust through is exactly what inspired me to use tunneling to simulate the unstoppable, but I don't know if you can tunnel above ground without having anything to actually tunnel through. Just locate him in a major city like New York. There should be enough pollution for the air to qualify as a solid. Seriously, I see nothing at all wrong with using Tunneling in the manner you describe. It is is movement power, you are doing a full move for a Move Through, no problem. If someone gets really picky about it, just buy a Change Environment or Transform that invisibly changes a tiny layer of air in front of you into dirt as you pass through it. Or, just put a +1/4 Advantage on it and call it done. That is the cost of the Advantage that allows Flight to work under water, (taking the place of swimming.) I don't see why being able to Tunnel through air is any more useful, generally it would be less so. KA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WhammeWhamme Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 Re: Unstoppable Just locate him in a major city like New York. There should be enough pollution for the air to qualify as a solid. Seriously, I see nothing at all wrong with using Tunneling in the manner you describe. It is is movement power, you are doing a full move for a Move Through, no problem. If someone gets really picky about it, just buy a Change Environment or Transform that invisibly changes a tiny layer of air in front of you into dirt as you pass through it. Or, just put a +1/4 Advantage on it and call it done. That is the cost of the Advantage that allows Flight to work under water, (taking the place of swimming.) I don't see why being able to Tunnel through air is any more useful, generally it would be less so. KA. Alternatively, look at it this way: You can tunnel through (say) porous rock, right? So why not 'tunnel' through the ground? Only the top, oooh, inch or three, of course. Just because there's some air doesn't mean much... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrosshairCollie Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 Re: Unstoppable If someone were to try a 'tunneling move-through', as for myself, I'd probably require either the target to be underground, or it'd be one of those kinda dolphin-jumping like moves (dive underground, dig, then come up under the target). But that's just me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 Re: Unstoppable IMO, the option that involves extra STR, Only to Add to Casual STR, is by far the best way to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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