What Do You Look For In A City Setting?

[Sketchpad]

Hiya Gang,

I've been working on some city books for my Champions campaign and I was curious what people look for in a city setting book? Do you usually work on a ton of NPCs (from Joey the Paperboy to Mayor Smith) or do you usually just let them sit in the background? What about maps? Do you map your cities? How about corporations and landmarks?

[proditor]

Re: What Do You Look For In A City Setting?

 

Hurm...that's a really good question. I use real cities and CU cities, so for the former, I generally only run cities I know. NYC is easy and a popular spot, so that one is a given. Most of the stuff is pulled from memory, so no help there I fear. I will sketch out locales that I think the PC's might go to, like my CHinatown is getting seriously fleshed out for an upcoming "Mini-series" for two of the PC's. NPC's, well I generally do enough of a sketch to RP them as memorably as I can and then ham it up.

 

proditor <----GM who loves to plan, and often ends up winging it.

[Publius]

Re: What Do You Look For In A City Setting?

 

I use made-up cities, it's just easier and more flexible that way. When I have time I do one or more of the things you mentioned, eventually the city kind of evolves. It is hardly the best way, it has some advantages (the aforementioned flexibility for example) and disadvantages (the fits and starts, sometimes oddly juxtaposed elements etc.); but it is sometimes the only thing that I can really do when real life gets in the way of my gaming habit.

 

• I generally like to map these cities out, but this takes time.
  
• I usually don't do any specific NPCs, but create them as needed.
  
• I almost always designate certain areas which have a unique character in some way ("Brickstreet" and its older buildings, "Brimstone Alley" and the magical types that seem to gravitate there, "The Garden" which is a rough area of town)

[Kirby]

Re: What Do You Look For In A City Setting?

 

Hiya Gang,

I've been working on some city books for my Champions campaign and I was curious what people look for in a city setting book? Do you usually work on a ton of NPCs (from Joey the Paperboy to Mayor Smith) or do you usually just let them sit in the background? What about maps? Do you map your cities? How about corporations and landmarks?

If you've seen San Angelo: City of Heroes, that is just about the best that I could ask for. One of the nice touches I like about it is the quoting of citizens throughout the book on different aspects. Three things it did not have that I would have really liked are: (1) a copiable timeline for your players (it came with a timeline, but revealed too much info for them), (2) a brief page or two to be copied to give players basics of the city (maybe where things are or the basic living areas), (3) permission to copy the city maps for your players.

 

There doesn't need to be an abundance of NPCs written up. Maybe one villain team and hero team, if applicable, a few solo supers, the mayor and some (five or less, perhaps) high-profile citizens. Plenty of NPC normals can be mentioned, without detailed write-ups. I think a good campaign city book would leave an opening for a follow-up sourcebook of important normal NPCs for the campaign. Also, depending on city size (typical comic/campaign city/metropolis, as opposed to a small city) there may be an opening for a book on villains alone or supers (good, bad, neutralish) as a sequel as well. Another thing I like with the San Angelo setting is that in the book Enemies of San Angelo after the entry of each team or solo villain, there was a write-up of a normal and their relation to the super (either a policeman following, gov't agent spying/tracking, former friend/spouse, etc.).

 

I hope this helps.

[Rapier]

Re: What Do You Look For In A City Setting?

 

Well, that is a really good question.

 

I love maps. Maps rock. I also like to to see the little stuff. You know. I want to see how many starbucks there are in the city. I want to know what the museums are and where they are. I want to know which police station services this neighbourhood.

 

A couple of NPCs are good, I mean you almost need some of the particulars. You need the mayor, police chief, a couple of cops, maybe a hotdog vendor, some reporters, etc. Oh, and a couple supergroups, etc.

 

But what I really need is the other stuff.

[Kirby]

Re: What Do You Look For In A City Setting?

 

I want to see how many starbucks there are in the city.

TOO MANY!!!

 

You think they were joking in Shrek 2, but where I lived last, there was a Starbucks in the mall at a corner bookstore, and one across the street from the mall where you could see that bookstore.

[tkdguy]

Re: What Do You Look For In A City Setting?

 

What I would find really helpful in a city campaign:

1. Maps of the city, especially the downtown area

2. Description of the different areas

3. Criminals and their activities

4. Plot hooks

[levi]

Re: What Do You Look For In A City Setting?

 

Again, like Kirby, I have to reference San Angelo. There were Top Ten Lists (Corporations, Wealthiest, Socialites, Athletes, Most Popular Heroes, etc...) with NPCs and open spots for PCs to fill. I had a vigilante character in that city that had a running feud with a dirtbag developer named Morgan. This guy could have any building in the city condemned in an hour to buy out the property and rennovate it. He was a 50 pt NPC, but one of the nastiest villains I can remember. The guy was so connected and so good at keeping his nose clean, my character had to resort to psychological pressure such as breaking into his home and leaving momentos from the families who he had run out of their homes (dolls, broken picture frames, and such). I don't think the focus should be on volume, but on quality of NPCs and the clear mental picture of the atmosphere of the city. The book should give you that just by reading through it. That's what you got with San Angelo and what a City Book should be IMO.

[phydaux]

Re: What Do You Look For In A City Setting?

 

I think the best citybook I ever read was the old Dark Champions Hudson City book.

 

It had great maps, landmarks UP THE WAZOO, and the names of every important NPC. It had very few NPC write-ups, and I DIDN'T miss them at all.

 

Also, while a city history is nice, I prefer it when the campaign book focuses on what's happening NOW. And open ended plot hooks.

 

Something like this:

Organized Crime

 

Crime in Little Italy was brought under one umbrella when Luco Brazzi consolidated power in the 1940's. The Brazzi crime family is currently lead by Luco's grandson Tony, although may say that Tony's lieutenant Sonny Capolito really calls the shots.

 

China Town has been controlled by the Iron Dragon Tong ever since the first Tong, Foo Lin Roo, came to the city in 1903. The Iron Dragon Tong has been lead by William Chen ever since Chen killed Foo Lin Roo's great-grandson, then married his sister Mary Roo. Mary Roo has worn white, traditional Chinese funeral garb ever since her brother's death, and is often referred to as The White Concubine.

 

In recent years there have been several deaths among Tong and Brazzi family solders, and this has lead to friction between the two crime families. What neither Law enforcement nor the crime families know is that neither the Tong NOR the Brazzi family has been responsible for these deaths.

So, lots of maps, lots and LOTS of landmarks, a Who's Who covering government, business, crime, etc, and open ended plot hooks.

[Guest rbezold]

Re: What Do You Look For In A City Setting?

 

In a word? Detail. Lots and lots of it. Gimme maps, gimme backgrounds of the people who make the city work, gimme history, gimme politics and economics. But forget the villains. Those I can do for myself.

 

Oh yeah, and make it flexable so I can decide which comic 'era' I want it to be in.

[MitchellS]

Re: What Do You Look For In A City Setting?

 

I strongly agree with rbezold except for 1 major point: cities need identifiable villains. While the Joker might show up in Metropolis for an issue or two of Superman you know to think "Gotham City" when you hear the name Joker; or Penguin; or Riddler. I think proprietary villains are very important to a city book.

 

I think a city needs a good mixture between light and dark elements. You need areas for your Batman clones to explore and dwell just as you need shining areas for your Superman clones to defend. This also goes for corporate areas for your Ironman clones and mystic areas for your Dr. Strange clones. The city needs to be a real breathing place with enough interesting areas and plots seeds to keep all the different types of characters happy.

 

One thing that I don't think a city book needs is heroes. Maybe a few unique independent heroes but no teams. And what I mean by unique is heroes that are different than what a player might create [Flash types are common PC characters but Etrigen types are far less common]. Authors have some uncontrollable desire to show us all their NPCs but forget that the city should be a place for the PC's characters. Both Millennium City and Freedom City suffer from this, and Vibora Bay does as well to a lesser extent.

 

The options should be left open for the PC's. For example players might want to play teen heroes but both MC and FC have "academies" already established. Cities need to avoid having NPCs covering the major PC archetypes like speedster, power armor, etc. The players should always have the first choice in character design, and so cities should not have histories that are too involved with the cities as to be hard to remove in favor of the PC.

 

I think maps are handy but good descriptions of the various neighborhoods are far more valuable. You really need more than a paragraph to do a neighborhood justice, IMO. I think it is important to have a good mix of non-super NPCs. You don't need to detail everyone from the mayor to the street-sweeper but you should cover all the major people one might encounter, assist, or need information from. Landmarks go along with neighborhoods. You need these things to give a city color. There are few people who do not know what Central Park or the Statue of Liberty are even if they have never been to New York City.

 

In order of importance to me would be:

 

Neighborhood/area descriptions with landmarks and history.

Plot hooks and adventure ideas.

Criminal elements.

Proprietary villains.

Interesting NPCs.

Corporate, Mystic, Scientific, and Entertainment links.

Surrounding place of interest such as military bases, etc.

Maps

NPC Heroes

[BoloOfEarth]

Re: What Do You Look For In A City Setting?

 

A city map is good, but what I'd like to see are maps of key landmarks, and maybe maps of a few generic buildings identifiable with that city (for instance, MC might have classy upscale eateries or high-tech offices, HC might have seedy bars and warehouses, etc.). But then, I'm a map nut.

 

I agree about the lack of need for NPC writeups, especially for non-combat types. Use the space for a good description of the NPC (appearance, personality, etc.) with maybe some key skills (e.g. "Cabbie Joe DiMarco has Combat Driving 15- and KS: Campaign City 13-"), but I don't need to know his stats if he's probably not getting into combat.

 

I heartily agree about the lack of need for more than a few solo heroes, and these should be strongly geared to be supporting characters for PC heroes. (A mystic superhero who can shed some light on things magical, a vigilante type to cross swords with the PCs, etc.)

 

Plot seeds. Enough to plant a freakin' plot garden across Central Park.

 

One-paragraph bits-in-boxes, the kind of stuff that is entertaining to read and points out the quirks of the city, organizations, or key NPCs. Quotes from NPCs (even nobody-types) about the city or landmarks would be neat, too. Something to break up the text and makes the whole reading process more fun. The old VIPER sourcebook had some that made me want to flip through just to read them. I never read San Angelo, but it sounds like the Top Ten lists were like that.

 

Stuff the players can see and read, as well as stuff they're not allowed to. (HERO seems to be doing a pretty good job of this as-is, though.)

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: What Do You Look For In A City Setting?

 

Flavor - Flavor of the city, the neighborhoods, the people in those areas. As this is where so many possible plot hooks come in, I want a lot of this.

 

I want normal NPCs and a bunch of superpowered NPCs. Ditto the reasons above.

 

I almost never use city maps. I usually find them to be a complete waste of my time and energy. I'll use area maps - a basic layout saying which neighborhood is which and such I'll use, but if it gets as detailed as streets and what are on those streets, I don't use it. For me the streets and what are on them I place there for dramatic timing and what works well for an adventure - so I never used the formal maps of a city - Using the GNS model when it comes to the city, I'm an anti-simulationist.

[RPMiller]

Re: What Do You Look For In A City Setting?

 

I'm glad to hear San Angelo getting tossed out there! As we throw around some ideas for a potential 2nd edition (note: I said potential ) I'm always curious to see what people want in a city book.

 

Out of curiousity, how many of you know of and/or purchased the Denizens of San Angelo book? It is a book of normal NPC (for the most part), but also filled with additional back story, plot hooks, and more fleshed out characters.

 

Regarding the maps in SA, I have to agree with the statements above. Should the demand become such and therefore the return on investment, I plan to redo all the maps in San Angelo. Mark and I have discussed a potential "Thomas Guide" as well, but that is extremely low priority.

[Guest Worldmaker]

Re: What Do You Look For In A City Setting?

 

Flavor and details that could be turned into flavor. Things that make the city feel like its part of a comic-book world.

[Kirby]

Re: What Do You Look For In A City Setting?

 

Out of curiousity' date=' how many of you know of and/or purchased the Denizens of San Angelo book? It is a book of normal NPC (for the most part), but also filled with additional back story, plot hooks, and more fleshed out characters.[/quote']

Denizens of San Angelo I also have. If you do a second book, could you include an NPC or two from the Mystic Scene. There wasn't a write-up for one in that section in SA:CoH, (though there was the Bard in Allies) and there wasn't a Mystic Scene in Denizens.

 

If you do a 2nd Edition, please keep the continuity. If you change around some major NPCs, please explain why the others aren't around. Perhaps Photon, Siren are at least one (if not more) of the Justice Foundation died in a superbattle. Perhaps the JF is dwindling and the setting picks up with an adventure where either the PCs join the JF, the JF dissolves, or the remaining JF members join the PCs' team.

[RPMiller]

Re: What Do You Look For In A City Setting?

 

Denizens of San Angelo I also have. If you do a second book' date=' could you include an NPC or two from the Mystic Scene. There wasn't a write-up for one in that section in SA:CoH, (though there was the Bard in Allies) and there wasn't a Mystic Scene in Denizens.[/quote']Actually there is a manuscript for entire Mystic Scene book. How does that sound?

If you do a 2nd Edition' date=' [b']please[/b] keep the continuity. If you change around some major NPCs, please explain why the others aren't around. Perhaps Photon, Siren are at least one (if not more) of the Justice Foundation died in a superbattle. Perhaps the JF is dwindling and the setting picks up with an adventure where either the PCs join the JF, the JF dissolves, or the remaining JF members join the PCs' team.

Continuity has always been at the heart of the line and will continue to remain so.

 

I would encourage you, if you haven't already done so, to join the SA:CoH mailing list or the forum. We have asked fans several questions regarding the fate of the JF as well as ideas for the second edition.

 

San Angelo: City of Heroes

Gold Rush Games

[Kirby]

Re: What Do You Look For In A City Setting?

 

Actually there is a manuscript for entire Mystic Scene book. How does that sound?

Cool. My San Angelo game kicked off today with the making of characters and a mock combat. One is going to change his character into a Mystic, so this could be very helpful.

 

 

I would encourage you' date=' if you haven't already done so, to join the SA:CoH mailing list or the forum. We have asked fans several questions regarding the fate of the JF as well as ideas for the second edition.[/quote']

Oh, alright. But I'm already on a mailing list where I receive scores of e-mails daily. Don't flood me!

[Rikathos]

Re: What Do You Look For In A City Setting?

 

I guess it would depend on the type of campaign you are running.

You would have to consider the type of role your heroes will play in the City.

What kind of relationship will they have with the Authorities for example.

How much time do you have to put in as much detail as you would want in your City?

I like a mix of my own creations and existing cities. That way it gives you freedom to create what you want, but if you want to go with something established you can. Saving you time and allowing you to focus on the themes and general story of the Session if you so choose.

When it comes to creating Cities I like to give it a history and its own location on the map. That way you can draw upon the culture and feel of the locale to create the feel and theme of your city.

Is your city located in New England somewhere. Not only do you have an area rich in History you can draw upon H.P. Lovcraft or Stephen King to create a creepy underbelly to your city rife with the Supernatural and Occult.

Back to my earlier statement about the Authorities.

I like to fill in the important postions like Mayor and Police Chief to help detail the city and give it personality.

Is the mayor crooked and working for organized crime secretly plotting the demise of the meddling Heroes?

Is the Police chief torn between arresting the Heroes for working outside the law and at the same time appreciating how they've saved lives?

I've looked at creating a city in detail as a quite daunting task. So many places and things to create. Aaaah!

What I could suggest is creating adventures that highlight certain neighborhoods or sections of the City. So the characters can explore the city. Therefore you can make any number of NPC's you may need and keep them around as plot hooks, and as your collect adventures you've created your own City.

 

Rikathos

"..you could go off and rule the world from beyond the grave."

"Indeed!"

"Or check into a Psycho-ward which ever comes first huh?"

[Sketchpad]

Re: What Do You Look For In A City Setting?

 

Actually there is a manuscript for entire Mystic Scene book. How does that sound?

Continuity has always been at the heart of the line and will continue to remain so.

 

I would encourage you, if you haven't already done so, to join the SA:CoH mailing list or the forum. We have asked fans several questions regarding the fate of the JF as well as ideas for the second edition.

 

San Angelo: City of Heroes

Gold Rush Games

RP, is there any new news on SA:CoH beyond the last announcement? I know that I'm looking foward to a 2nd edition

[RPMiller]

Re: What Do You Look For In A City Setting?

 

Everything is still on hold with no new updates since the last. Mark is currently swamped with some personal stuff he is trying to wade through, and we are still not seeing a significant upturn in the RPG industry, at least not in our neck of the woods.

 

Personally, I would love to start work on the line again, but I'm currently waiting like everyone else at this point.

[zornwil]

Re: What Do You Look For In A City Setting?

 

I use real cities, if it's contemporary, and use the web and occasionally store-bought map books to get appropriate info.

 

For more fictional settings where that's impossible, I draw on influences from the fiction I'm emulating but haven't resorted to setting material except for more general influences (such as flavor, law, politics, culture, etc.).

[Boll Weevil]

Re: What Do You Look For In A City Setting?

 

Please allow me to cast my vote for maps. I have San Angelo and love it, although I have never gotten to use it. I recently picked up Millenium City. There is one map and I could have gotten that one from Mapquest. I am not one to criticize Hero products, I am extremely happy with everything I've seen but in a 100+ page write-up of a campaign city I expect to see some maps. Honestly, if I knew there were no maps I would not have bought it.

[Guest Champsguy]

Re: What Do You Look For In A City Setting?

 

Freedom City is the best city supplement I've ever seen. Let's go through the "why"s.

 

-Maps. Maps are important. They let you know where everything is. They're also the one thing that I can't do on my own without a whole lot of work. They don't take up that much room, and they give me something that I can show the players and point at during the game. "You're at the banquet for the mayor over here. (point) Suddenly, reports come in that Lightning Bug has a bomb on the 10th street bridge over here. (point)"

 

-Important NPCs. Marvel's New York isn't New York without J Jonah Jameson. Metropolis isn't Metropolis without Lois Lane and Perry White. These people don't need full writeups, stat-wise, but they should be fully fleshed out characters. We don't need to know their complete background. If you can't summarize the character in 2 or 3 paragraphs, then start over. The game isn't about the NPC. NPCs should have motivations, and should have character, but I don't need to know why the guy who owns the hot-dog stand dreams of Madonna and large fish.

 

-Landmarks. I want key visuals that I can give to my players, so I'll need illustrations. They should know what the 10th street bridge looks like, exactly. We should have pics of the old abandoned water-pumping station. Landmarks are big and impressive, and make for a good super-fight scene.

 

-Notable places. These aren't landmarks. These are places like the gyro place that has the best greek food in town. These places give you a slice of life in the city. There should be enough notable places so that characters of all interests will have a place to be.

 

-Villains and obscure heroes. As has been said above, you need people to flush out the superhuman community. There should be a masked avenger of the night. There should be a guy who fights supernatural evil. There should be lots and lots of memorable villains.

[Rapier]

Re: What Do You Look For In A City Setting?

 

Freedom City is the best city supplement I've ever seen. Let's go through the "why"s.

Freedom City, eh? I've heard many good things about GR. Is the rest of the M&M line of similar quality? I've seen a few things at the FLGS, but its hard to tell by just standing there paging through if it is worth the trouble to convert etc.