nexus Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 It came up in a recent thread and made me curious. How many folks use called shots in their Superheroic games? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 Re: Called Shots and Champions *raises hand* I don't use Hit Locations, but I do use Called Shots, if the player wants to make 'em and take the OCV penalty. Just a couple weeks ago, Gargantua got dropped in my game because somebody put an aimed shot into his two best friends... and I don't mean the ones in the Winnebago. I also restrict purchases of Targeting Skill Levels to 4, maximum, to avoid head-shot abuse. That plus the fact that most of my players have four-color CvKs keeps things working fine, so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Champsguy Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 Re: Called Shots and Champions Don't use it, except for certain purposes. You won't get a damage bonus, but you might make the bad guy drop his gun, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BNakagawa Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 Re: Called Shots and Champions called shots, sure. Hit locations, OHGODNO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nexus Posted December 21, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 Re: Called Shots and Champions I used to all the time, but I found it made Growth characters and slow bricks a little more vulnerable than I like them. Also lead to some behavior that didn't really fit the genre I wanted to emulate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WhammeWhamme Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 Re: Called Shots and Champions No, never, no way, no sirree, no how... I was traumatized by a misreading of the hit locations rules (I didn't realize the x5 STUN modifier for head shots replaced the normal stun multipliers...), and never recovered. But seriously, it's just... a hassle. If someone wants to be able to do that kind of thing, take a power to represent it. I do NOT like people being able to turn a simple CV edge into extra damage on TOP of hitting more. Okay, if someone wanted to do it to look cool, fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 Re: Called Shots and Champions Hit loccation multipliers? No thank you! The OCV/DCV spread is too great. It's like handing all Martial Artists "2x Damage vs Bricks". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 Re: Called Shots and Champions An optional way of dealing with that is to make the x2 and x1.5 multipliers apply *AFTER* defenses, not before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapier Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 Re: Called Shots and Champions All my champs games used the called shots rules. All my regular heroic games all use hit locs. All my campaigns (regardless of level) use crits (and fumbles, natch). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDU Neil Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 Re: Called Shots and Champions Don't use it' date=' except for certain purposes. You won't get a damage bonus, but you might make the bad guy drop his gun, etc.[/quote'] Basically the same for me. I don't change the damage... but depending on description of armor coverage or focus detail... I'll give it neat game effect if it seems right. My players don't abuse this... they just try to use it when it seems dramatic. (I don't use the hit location chart/modifiers for supers at all, though I love it for Heroic level.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 Re: Called Shots and Champions It came up in a recent thread and made me curious. How many folks use called shots in their Superheroic games? I agree with those who have stated that they allow it but only for non-damage dealing effects. If extra damage is the purpose of the 'called shot' Find Weakness is the favored mechanic in Champions. For any who are interested there was a related thread aproaching the same subject from an almost opposite viewpoint several months ago: Do you allow Find Weakness in games using Hit Locations? HM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 Re: Called Shots and Champions Nope, not in any generalized damage campaign. If a character wants to "shoot em in the head" or "boot em in the gut" for flavor, I allow it without needing to resort to a die roll. It doesnt matter if you hit them in the pinky or the solar plexus in generalized damage any way, so what difference does it make? The only "called shot" kind of activity that comes up is aiming at Foci or entangles specifically, and things of that nature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebuchet Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 Re: Called Shots and Champions We basically permit called shots in our campaign only for extraordinary purposes. Our campaign is too Silver Age to permit called shots to be used on a regular basis, but for "save the hostage/world" situations it's OK. And probably only my PC would have a high enough DEX (43) and enough levels (2 Overall) to pull it off on any kind of regular basis anyway. Head shots are tough even with very high CVs. IIRC it's only been used once in our campaign, in order to rescue a teammate's DNPC. And it was only used (successfully, thankfully) to knock the bad guy's arm away from holding the hostage, not to do extra damage. Once his arm wasn't holding the DNPC, our teleporter zapped the hostage to safety. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nexus Posted December 21, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 Re: Called Shots and Champions Slightly amusing story. Back when I first started running Champions we used the hit location chart. Mistake, but it lead to a moment when Shade, our team Martial Artist got 4 straight hits to the "vitals" on a group of Viper agents he was fighting. Each time he used his Kick Manuver (Offensive Strike) the roll came up the same and he rolled the dice in front of everyone. I decided it highly appropriate for him to get some serious bonus dice on his Pre attack against the last few and a breif reputation.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edsel Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 Re: Called Shots and Champions In our campaigns (any of them supers or otherwise) we generally use hit locations for most killing attacks. AE and similar effects are generally excepted from using the hit location table. We rarely use hit location tables for non-killing attacks. Called shots are always allowed whether KA or not. It is a matter of player proclivity. They can go for a called shot if they wish and the GMs minions do the same. Again AE and certain other things can make a called shot non-rational. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme Serpent Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 Re: Called Shots and Champions Nope. No Hit Locations, no called shots for damage mods. Only really use in specialized circumstances, like "stake the vampire in the heart". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 Re: Called Shots and Champions I'll add to my prior comment that Callked SHots for effect, rather than hit location damage mod's, are highly appropriate in my opinion. I'll also note that agents firing on martial artists/speedsters may as well use a called shot to the head if they need a 3 to hit anyway. Finally, if you think Entangle - takes no damage from attack, Flash and other mechanics to reduce a target to 0 DCV are harsh now, imagine what happens when Dr. D is hit with an Entangle does no damage, and the rest of the team makes Rapid Fire called shots to the head while he's at DCV 0... Treb, how many Sweeps to the head could Z'lf reliably connect with under those conditions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 Re: Called Shots and Champions An optional way of dealing with that is to make the x2 and x1.5 multipliers apply *AFTER* defenses' date=' not before.[/quote'] Actually, I believe that is the way you're already supposed to do it (5e, pgs 276-277)... Multiply the amount of damage the target takes after (emphasis mine) applying his defenses... I generally allowed called shots, though I tend to be leery of them -- as a player, I find it particularly galling when my high defense brick gets his head handed to him in two hits by a high DEX martial artist with an otherwise piddly attack because of called shots (and scads of levels)... I use hit locations usually only for kills -- and then mostly just for color, and as an experiment (want to see if I get more consistant results than just rolling the STUN multiplier)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebuchet Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 Re: Called Shots and Champions I'll add to my prior comment that Callked SHots for effect, rather than hit location damage mod's, are highly appropriate in my opinion. I'll also note that agents firing on martial artists/speedsters may as well use a called shot to the head if they need a 3 to hit anyway. Finally, if you think Entangle - takes no damage from attack, Flash and other mechanics to reduce a target to 0 DCV are harsh now, imagine what happens when Dr. D is hit with an Entangle does no damage, and the rest of the team makes Rapid Fire called shots to the head while he's at DCV 0... Treb, how many Sweeps to the head could Z'lf reliably connect with under those conditions? Probably several. I don't recall Dr. D's normal DCV offhand, but with it at zero from an Entangle I'd be surprised if she hit him less than 3 or 4 times. Let's see: She has a normal OCV of 14, 2 Overall Levels, and she'd certainly use her biggest attack against DR. D (Sacrifice Strike), which gives her a +1 OCV, for a total OCV of 17. Plus Zl'f has Rapid Attack which negates the first -2 penalty for a Sweep. Called Shot to the head is -8, which gives DD an 8 DCV vs. her 17 OCV. The first two Sweep attacks would hit on anything but a natural 18. She's have to attempt 6 Sweep attacks before her probability of hitting dropped down to 50%. The odds of doing 4 or 5 hits would be very good. Of course, I'm not certain a mere 10d6 of damage would perturb the good doctor much. Head shots multiple Stun damage by... what? 2? 3? 4? What's Dr. Destroyer's PD? 80? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 Re: Called Shots and Champions Assuming that he hasn't used his Gadget VPP to buff his defenses beforehand, Destroyer's PD (resistant hardened) is 40. I think 'apply Called Shot multipliers after defenses in a superheroic campaign' is looking like a better and better idea. Edit -- just checked my 5e Revised. For a normal damage attack, the *default* procedure is to apply the Hit Location xSTUN and xBODY multiples (which for the Head are x2, x2) only to the STUN and BODY that managed to penetrate defenses, not to the entire attack. Perhaps that was true in 5e as well, and I'd missed it. I do not know offhand (and having given away my original 5e book, I can't go look it up). So, Called Shots and Hit Location modifiers aren't allowing you to do damage to targets you normally couldn't scratch... they're just allowing you to do more damage, faster, to targets whose defenses were low enough to let you penetrate anyway. This is definitely more balancing than the old way. So with the "double STUN and BODY /after/ applying defenses", you'd kick him square in the head six times... and do (on average) absolutely no damage six times. It'd be about as futile as kicking Captain America's shield. Her 10d6 can't hope to get any damage through Destroyer's defenses normally, so doubling zero is still zero. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebuchet Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 Re: Called Shots and Champions So with the "double STUN and BODY /after/ applying defenses"' date=' you'd kick him square in the head six times... and do (on average) absolutely no damage six times. It'd be about as futile as kicking Captain America's shield. Her 10d6 can't hope to get any damage through Destroyer's defenses normally, so doubling zero is still zero.[/quote']That's kinda what I thought. She might leak a few through with good damage rolls, but I had a hard time buying Zl'f could take down the Big D unless she caught him sans armor. So much for her dreams of glory... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 Re: Called Shots and Champions Please note, however, that if you'd kicked him in the head six times /after/ making a successful Find Weakness(*) roll, Destroyer's head would be feeling like a pachinko ball on Saturday night. (*) Which, granted, is almost impossible to do to Destroyer, given that he's bought more Lack of Weakness than the USS _New Jersey_... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nexus Posted December 21, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 Re: Called Shots and Champions That's kinda what I thought. She might leak a few through with good damage rolls, but I had a hard time buying Zl'f could take down the Big D unless she caught him sans armor. So much for her dreams of glory... Since the modifier is the same you can kick him in the "vitals" six times for the sheer emotional satisfaction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 Re: Called Shots and Champions So much for her dreams of glory... Well, she could pick up a sword...KA's get their multiple before defenses, and a guaranteed 5x would be nice... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 Re: Called Shots and Champions I have thus far allowed them. But only one player has taken me up on it, and the result was pretty brutal. I think it will likely get worse as OCV goes up, then I may have to do something about it. But right now, I'm pretty sure once one of the other characters views a crippling shot to the head he'll call him on it. They're those kind of players. They'll eventually be all over a hero who does something brutally unheroic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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