Raise Dead, how do you build?

[Darkhope]

First off I'de like to say greetings to everyone. I just found this site and information and I've been playing for 10 years. I still use the old books and am not sure on how some things are built. Right now I'm running a fantasy genre champions game but in the Forgotten Realms D&D universe. I was curious as to how a Ressurection power was built in Champions. I built it several ways, a Major Transformation 'Dead to Alive',and a Summon Spirit (this is hard to pay for cause you don't know how many points the person your raising is). I was curious if the new books or some other GM's out there could help me with this. I'de like to put this spell in one of my players power pool. Thanks in advance

[Citizen Keen]

Re: Raise Dead, how do you build?

 

Raising Dead as in Undead is simply a Summon with an OAF (Corpse of suitable quality)

 

Raising Dead as in Resurrection... If I recall currectly (don't have HERO with me), Aid has bee nbroken down into Aid and Healing, and Healing has an adder for Resurrection. Somebody else can correct me if I'm wrong.

[Darkhope]

Re: Raise Dead, how do you build?

 

Aid for healing? That doesn't make sense, the target is dead. Has to be built another way unless the new book has a higher cost for aid that is a ressurection. Like its 5pts for 1D6 healing aid, but its 10pts for 1D6 ressurection aid or something. You saying new book breaks it down like that?

[RDU Neil]

Re: Raise Dead, how do you build?

 

I dunno about 5ER, but 4th Edition it was easy. Buy Regeneration with Adder/"From Death"... then make it usable on others, with the limitations "not on self" and whatever else makes it a "spell" not a internal ability.

[Citizen Keen]

Re: Raise Dead, how do you build?

 

In Fifth Edition (and Fifth Edition Revised), Healing and Aid are two completely seperate powers. Just like Energy Blast and HKA, or Mind Control and Telepathy.

 

And in the rules, (and I could be wrong), there are rules for coming back from the dead using Healing. It might just be for the character with the power (like, super Regeneration, which is a special form of Healing just for the character), but I thought htere was a way to build it so it worked for other people. Someone with a copy of FREd will have to help me out.

[Black Omega]

Re: Raise Dead, how do you build?

 

There is a new adjustment power called healing, page 121 of FrED. For an additional 20 points the power can raise the dead, though this ability has a stop sign.

[OddHat]

Re: Raise Dead, how do you build?

 

In 5th Healing is not part of Aid. For +5 points Healing can heal limbs. For +20 points it can bring back the dead. Just buy 14d6 of Heal Body, Standard Effect, Can Heal Limbs, Ressurection. 95 active points, and will bring back any normal human if there's anything at all left of the corpse.

[Darkhope]

Re: Raise Dead, how do you build?

 

I dunno about 5ER, but 4th Edition it was easy. Buy Regeneration with Adder/"From Death"... then make it usable on others, with the limitations "not on self" and whatever else makes it a "spell" not a internal ability.

 

That doesn't make sense. The target is dead, if you give it the regeneration power with the spell it still can't use it... its dead... lol. Regeneration lets you heal body post 12 and lets you take up to 2x negative your body before your dead. But if your dead when this regeneration spell is cast you can't use it. Can't be done with Regeneration imo.

 

In 5th Healing is not part of Aid. For +5 points Healing can heal limbs. For +20 points it can bring back the dead. Just buy 14d6 of Heal Body, Standard Effect, Can Heal Limbs, Ressurection. 95 active points, and will bring back any normal human if there's anything at all left of the corpse.

 

Hmm, I think I should get the 5th ED book. Healing and Aid are different powers all together now? Weird. But I like the added costs for more special effects of the power. Coincides with other powers like Desolidification, Mind Link and Missle Deflection; where the more points pumped into the more it can do, not just more dice.

[Darkhope]

Re: Raise Dead, how do you build?

 

Seems to me building it with the new Healing though is an all or nothing deal. If you don't roll enough dice to equal targets body he doesn't get ressurected. Unless you tack on Cumlative +1/2 advantage.

[Citizen Keen]

Re: Raise Dead, how do you build?

 

Hmm' date=' I think I should get the 5th ED book.[/quote']

 

You probably should. These forums have a lot of old timers, but there are also a lot of people who came in with Fifth (myself, for example). We're not going to be able to help you with 4th, and most people aren't going to be interested in discussing 4th edition mechanics. This is (pretty much) a Fifth-centric forum.

 

But regardless, welcome!

[Mike W]

Re: Raise Dead, how do you build?

 

I have to chime in on with the camp that says healing with the resurrection adder. I have 5th edition and it clearly states, "At the GM's discretion, for 20 character points, characters may use Healing BODY(including optional forms) to bring deceased characters back to life." I do think that a small "all or nothing" limit would be appropriate so that the target's BODY total is not affected unless the dice roll is high enough to bring the character back to life(in other words, the character can't go from -15 BODY to -5 BODY with the first attempt and then -5 to 5 with another attempt).

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Raise Dead, how do you build?

 

Well, we can tell you what the official rules position on this effect is. It's up to you as to whether you find it acceptable or not.

 

If the name of the Power makes a difference to you, resurrecting someone else would probably use normal Healing rather than the variant of it which is now used to build Regeneration. Really, though, Healing or Regeneration are just names for the game mechanic which allows you to add back points to a character which have been lost. Which characters can have the points added back to them by a particular iteration of Healing will depend on the SFX of the Power. A dead character is, for game purposes, one whose BODY stat has reached a particular negative total. If you can change that stat to a positive total, the character would be alive again.

[OddHat]

Re: Raise Dead, how do you build?

 

Seems to me building it with the new Healing though is an all or nothing deal. If you don't roll enough dice to equal targets body he doesn't get ressurected. Unless you tack on Cumlative +1/2 advantage.

 

Healing is already cumulative up to the maximum you can roll on the dice, and Standard Effect means that you don't roll at all; assume that every die rolled a 3. 14d6 Heal Body Standard Effect would 21 Body per application; as long as the target had not died at greater than -21 body, and the corpse had not been further damaged, it would work the first time.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Raise Dead, how do you build?

 

Healing is already cumulative up to the maximum you can roll on the dice' date=' and Standard Effect means that you don't roll at all; assume that every die rolled a 3. 14d6 Heal Body Standard Effect would 21 Body per application; as long as the target had not died at greater than -21 body, and the corpse had not been further damaged, it would work the first time.[/quote']

Actually, Healing is all or nothing. It's not cumulative and you're not supposed to make it cumulative. It's a balance issue I disagree with.

 

And 14d6 of Healing costs 140 points, and with the Adders it costs 165 (not 95). Healing costs 10 points per die, not 5. Even still, the ability to ressurect people from the dead is a very powerful ability. Of course you can always toss in a bunch of appropriate Limitations (Extra Time (5 minutes; -2), Concentration (0 DCV, totall unaware of nearby events; -3/4), OAF Bulky (religious vestements, ointments, candles, etc.; -1 1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4), Requires Skill Roll/Activation Roll (11-; -1), Side Effects (god gets pissed at you/Drain 6d6 vs all Clerical Powers at once; -1) for a total cost of only 21 points.

[MitchellS]

Re: Raise Dead, how do you build?

 

The rules for resurrection basically state that a healing power with the adder must do enough body bring the character into the negative zone of almost dead. At that point they can be treated like he is a normal negative body individual who is not dead. So if Joe Normal is at -12 body [-10 being dead] a 3 body heal will bring him alive and to -9 body. At that point he must be saved with paramedics or healed more to stabilize his condition.

[OddHat]

Re: Raise Dead, how do you build?

 

Actually, Healing is all or nothing. It's not cumulative and you're not supposed to make it cumulative. It's a balance issue I disagree with.

 

And 14d6 of Healing costs 140 points, and with the Adders it costs 165 (not 95). Healing costs 10 points per die, not 5. Even still, the ability to ressurect people from the dead is a very powerful ability. Of course you can always toss in a bunch of appropriate Limitations (Extra Time (5 minutes; -2), Concentration (0 DCV, totall unaware of nearby events; -3/4), OAF Bulky (religious vestements, ointments, candles, etc.; -1 1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4), Requires Skill Roll/Activation Roll (11-; -1), Side Effects (god gets pissed at you/Drain 6d6 vs all Clerical Powers at once; -1) for a total cost of only 21 points.

 

Thanks, my mistake.

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: Raise Dead, how do you build?

 

Actually' date=' Healing is all or nothing. It's not cumulative and you're not supposed to make it cumulative. It's a balance issue I disagree with.[/quote']

I don't have 5ER, but in FREd, there is some ambiguity here. It says you shouldn't apply Cumulative to Adjustment Powers that already have another way to increase their adjustment limit. Aid, Transfer, and Absorption have such another method. Drain has no adjustment limit. The only Adjustment powers left that Cumulative might be applied to are Suppress and Healing. If they meant that Cumulative can only be applied to Suppress, why didn't they say so? Why didn't they include it in the description of the Suppress Power, rather than the Adjustment Powers section? In my games, I have no problem with Cumulative Healing.

 

And MitchellS is right that you don't have to restore the stiff to full health for resurrection to work. If a 10 BODY Joe is reduced to -12 BODY, he's dead. By the time you get back to recover his body, worms and decay have done an additional 3 BODY damage, so he's now at -15 BODY. If you can Heal him (with the Resurrection Adder) up to -9 BODY, now he's only mostly dead, and will still die without further attention. If you can get him up to 1 BODY, he'll eventually fully recover with bed rest and chicken soup. If your Healing isn't Cumulative and you've only got 5d6 of it, the best you can do is get him up to -5 BODY.

 

"Shows what you know Mr. Smarty Pants. It turns out your friend here is only mostly dead. There's a big difference between mostly dead and all dead."

[Dust Raven]

Re: Raise Dead, how do you build?

 

But at -5 BODY, you can still make a Paramedics roll to stabalize the character and once he's receiving full medical care, he'll recover normally (and fully by default unless the GM want's to rule otherwise).

[Doc Democracy]

Re: Raise Dead, how do you build?

 

Next time I run a Hero based fantasy game - any ressurection is going to be based on Contacts: [deity]

 

 

Doc

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: Raise Dead, how do you build?

 

True.

 

I'd probably rule that (after a successful Paramedics roll to stabilize him) he could gain up to his REC/month only with full medical care (feed through IV tube, monitoring, etc.). Once he gets to 1 BODY, he gets his full REC/month with simple bed rest.

 

At what point should he regain consciousness? I'd say off hand that if he's been fully dead, he shouldn't even start to recover STUN intil he's at positive BODY.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Raise Dead, how do you build?

 

At what point should he regain consciousness? I'd say off hand that if he's been fully dead' date=' he shouldn't even start to recover STUN intil he's at positive BODY.[/quote']

Depends entirely on the GM. Personally I'd go with whatever his STUN was at the time of death. If he died at GMO (-30 or less), he'd be in a coma (and healing) until the GM said he wakes up (or someone Heals his STUN or otherwise does something to give him normal recoveries again). If he died barely unconscious (like lots of heroes tend to do), then he's awake and aware upon ressurection or soon after, just still healing from the wounds (he recovers his STUN at the rate for which his negative value, if any, dictates).

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: Raise Dead, how do you build?

 

Regeneration with the Resurrection option is specifically stated to work on dead characters. Either in FREd or in the FAQ, I don't recall.

[jursamaj]

Re: Raise Dead, how do you build?

 

I dunno about 5ER' date=' but 4th Edition it was easy. Buy Regeneration with Adder/"From Death"... then make it usable on others, with the limitations "not on self" and whatever else makes it a "spell" not a internal ability. [/quote']That doesn't make sense. The target is dead, if you give it the regeneration power with the spell it still can't use it... its dead... lol. Regeneration lets you heal body post 12 and lets you take up to 2x negative your body before your dead. But if your dead when this regeneration spell is cast you can't use it. Can't be done with Regeneration imo.

 

You're confusing Usable On Other with Usable By Other. Yes, a power Usable By Other would be useless to a corpse. But a power Usable On Other could be used on the corpse.

[zornwil]

Re: Raise Dead, how do you build?

 

We just added some nice house rules for this. Basically, this requires Body, Soul, and Mind to be reunited. The mind can be rebuilt or taken from a "brain tape" or such. The body can simply be healed/resurrected/repaired, the like. The soul, if it's any significant time at all after the death, must be recovered from wherever it went - perhaps it went to the Dreamlands, perhaps to Faerie, perhaps to a particular version of Heaven or Hell, so on. This adds some nice flavor and works well in our Champions setting.

[CourtFool]

Raise Dead Threads, how do you build?

 

Hooked on Thread Necromancy worked for me!