Tom Posted August 22, 2006 Report Share Posted August 22, 2006 Re: Old School, Yesterday's Heroes You missed the part about adding it to a 'cool players' thread... j/k Hey! Winterhawk is a cool player! (Slyfox didn't even try to take advantage of Speedzone's future daughter who hasn't been born yet -- even if he did sneak a peek in the mirror...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheQuestionMan Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 Bump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted March 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 Wow. A bump for a thread from 2005. Feeling Necromatic, QM? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Shadow Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 It's an idea whose time has come. And in all seriousness, it's worthy of the bump. If you'd like to run it I'd definitely be interested in playing in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DusterBoy Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 So would I. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba smith Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 I hear you doc shadow[sorry,the quote function still doesn't wok for me] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Shadow Posted March 20, 2014 Report Share Posted March 20, 2014 Oh I didn't bump it Bubba. That was done by our master of obscure and not so obscure information TheQuestionMan. I just seconded it in the strongest possible terms. One of these days I simply have got to play in a Hermit run campaign! I don't supposed you'd consider moving to southern New England, would you Hermit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted March 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 I'm afraid I've been anything but reliable for the game I am in, so I couldn't start another. But thanks for the kindness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Arc Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 Senior Citizen Squad Attack!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Weapon Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 How do I rep Hermit? The system seems to have changed since I was last here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba smith Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 hit the like this button in each post to leave rep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Weapon Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 Another thing that might happen is some young empowered people joining the oldsters. When the average "hero" acts like a pyschopath a lot of people are going to be turned off the whole idea. The example of a group who they actually WANT to emulate will get at least some of them to the local spandex store. But there is a middle ground between "Kill at will." and "We don't kill.". That is "We use reasonable force. Sometimes that means we have to kill, most of the time it means we arrest.". A hero who doesn't use lethal force unless it's what a reasonable person would do given his powers and the full situation. So for instance he might radio a teammate in danger and ask "How long can you hold out.". If the answer means that he can disable the guys he's fighting he will, if not he'll kill them if it's quicker. If someone is firing a small caliber automatic weapon, he'll ignore it since it's unlikely to seriously injury him. That is unless there are civilians or vulnerable heroes about. He willing gives himself up to the cops if any of his homicides are questioned, but so far the juries have accepted that he needed to do every one. Not that he does that many, in fact it's safer fighting him than the average SWAT team, because he can take people in alive that they have to just put down. Doing this is FAR harder than simply killing whenever it's even moderately convenient. He despises those who do so as unprofessional, immoral and sloppy amateurs who cause problems for the real heroes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba smith Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 killing in comics and real life should be the LAST RESORT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted March 21, 2014 Report Share Posted March 21, 2014 ...unless you're a villain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Weapon Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 killing in comics and real life should be the LAST RESORT Absolutely but if you're a superhero what counts as "The last resort"? If a bad guys gun has a 1/1000 chance of killing you per shot, do you have the right to kill him if it means he gets one less shot off? Obviously if he had a 1/2 chance of killing you per shot you'd be justified, but what about 1/1,000,000? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheQuestionMan Posted October 17, 2014 Report Share Posted October 17, 2014 A fun read bump! Enjoy QM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 Absolutely but if you're a superhero what counts as "The last resort"? If a bad guys gun has a 1/1000 chance of killing you per shot, do you have the right to kill him if it means he gets one less shot off? Obviously if he had a 1/2 chance of killing you per shot you'd be justified, but what about 1/1,000,000? IMO Last resort is almost never to save the hero themselves. If the guy has a 1/1000 chance of killing me per shot, I risk a few shots and take his weapon or subdue him. "I thought he was going to kill me so I killed him first" is used by vigilantes like the Punisher (whack job) and idiots like Wolverine* (wanker) That said, Captain America has shot and killed a terrorist that was opening fire on a group of innocents. That's last resort. *personal bias here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 Actually self defense law takes into account your personal abilities and relative threat. So, machine gun vs Captain America; not so much of a threat. Machine Gun vs Aunt May: life threatening. Following those kind of rules and ideas in a character's behavior definitely can help form their responses in terms of being "fair" and "heroic." I mean, if superman backhands the head off a guy because he pulled a pistol on Supes... that's not heroic, its just evil. There was no threat at all. But if some guy pulls a gun on a cop, then he's in real danger of his life and is justified using lethal force to defend himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba smith Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 I concur wjth enfotcer84 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
massey Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 Actually self defense law takes into account your personal abilities and relative threat. So, machine gun vs Captain America; not so much of a threat. Machine Gun vs Aunt May: life threatening. Following those kind of rules and ideas in a character's behavior definitely can help form their responses in terms of being "fair" and "heroic." I mean, if superman backhands the head off a guy because he pulled a pistol on Supes... that's not heroic, its just evil. There was no threat at all. But if some guy pulls a gun on a cop, then he's in real danger of his life and is justified using lethal force to defend himself. A machine gun is still a threat to Cap. Now to us, since we can see his character sheet, we know it's not really a serious threat. Cap has 12/12 combat luck, missile deflection with a 17 OCV, and a DCV of 11. His 20 Body also factors in. But to a person in the Marvel Universe, Cap is a normal man. He's a very heroic normal man, but if you shot him with a gun, he could die. Cap himself might feel bad because he knows he should have been able to stop the guy without using lethal force, but no judge is going to tell an obviously non-bulletproof hero that he was in no danger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 Well the reason its not a threat for Cap is that he's wearing armor and has faced 19825120312056105182693124 people with machine guns in the past and barely taken a glancing shot. Technically yes, he's human but history has shown a dude with a gun is no match. Still he might be okay in court if he shows up dressed normally and his lawyer points out that he's not really bullet proof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
massey Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 People in court can't see Cap's game stats. Combat luck is a "they just barely missed / grazed you" ability. It shouldn't work if you just stand there yawning at the bad guy and voluntarily reduce your DCV for him. Visually, it's going to look they they almost got him. Most real world thugs and gang members don't have very good OCVs. They shoot a lot, and rarely hit anybody. Them being a bad shot does not negatively affect your right of self defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 I'm not arguing from stats, I'm arguing from history. Captain America has faced thousands of armed men and barely ever been hurt. Hence, armed men are not much of a threat to him. And in real world law, that's taken into account for self defense cases. Someone small and weak is considered justified in the use of self defense whereas a big trained Navy Seal would not be in the same circumstances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheQuestionMan Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6. My old Martial Arts Instructor used to advise. My Military Instructors just nod and smile.25 years later I caught a thief breaking into car in my building's parkade. He attacked me with a knife. In the end I patched him up by the time the paramedics and police arrived. When I finished my report they just laughed it off.Justifiable force is determined by you at the time of the incident. Everyone else gets to analyze your call days even months later. You have seconds.QM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
massey Posted October 23, 2014 Report Share Posted October 23, 2014 I'm not arguing from stats, I'm arguing from history. Captain America has faced thousands of armed men and barely ever been hurt. Hence, armed men are not much of a threat to him. And in real world law, that's taken into account for self defense cases. Someone small and weak is considered justified in the use of self defense whereas a big trained Navy Seal would not be in the same circumstances. Armed men are a serious threat to him. He's not bulletproof. The fact that he usually punches them unconscious before they can shoot him doesn't change that. Remember, a lot of those armed men he has faced were in times of war, when Cap was often shooting back. As far as the real world law, I am a real world defense lawyer. A small and weak person may be justified in using lethal force in a situation where a Navy Seal would not. An 80 year old lady could be justified in shooting an unarmed attacker, because she's 80. Unless that attacker is Mike Tyson, the Navy Seal is probably not justified in shooting a single unarmed attacker. But once weapons come out, the Navy Seal is justified too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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