Trebuchet Posted June 17, 2005 Report Share Posted June 17, 2005 Re: Eurostar is friggin' fast! 4th Edition Eurostar was a terror precisely because they were both fast and there were so damn many of them. Most PC teams I've seen had 5 or 6 members, meaning the average team was not only outgunned but out-sped and outnumbered. Our team MidGuard has 8 members, but one PC's player or another is always acting as GM for the scenario and for one reason or another it's rare for all of our players to make it to the game. We average 6 PC's per game. When we - successfully - fought Eurostar in 2003, we had 4 members present, against 4 of them - Mentalla, Durak, Ultrasonique, and Scorpia) The new team is more managable, especially with the loss of Bora. (I strongly suspect Bora will make an appearance in our campaign's version of Eurostar, since Blackjack doesn't like their current 5e lineup.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markdoc Posted June 17, 2005 Report Share Posted June 17, 2005 Re: Eurostar is friggin' fast! Our team had three encounters with Eurostar. The first was a knock-down, beat-em up with the whole Eurostar team against our 6 PCs. Several people got badly wounded on both sides (Pantera again, natch, on their side and my character, a force-field manipulating brick who could generate an 8d6 HKA: yeah, we were munchkins, back then). In the end, Eurostar bugged out, carrying their wounded and we let them go because half the team was down (one needing serious medical attention) and there was significant collateral damage that needed looking after. The second one is fondly remembered as "that insane fight with the hunteds". Our armoured suit/inventor guy had been having rough time with his hunteds popping up and making his life miserable, and as we were set to confront Eurostar, he made some crack about "How come the villains' hunteds never turn up?" So, the GM rolled. Some of Eurostar's hunted turned up. So did some of our hunteds. So did some of the hunteds' hunteds and (I think) one hunted of a hunted of a hunted... I really can't recall to this day who actually did turn up but it was a huge slugfest, with agents, supers and god-knows what hurtling in all directions. We were all experienced players, and Chris (our GM) roped in his room-mate (another champions GM) to help out but it still took us all Sunday and well into Monday morning to play out. Eurostar just left, somewhere in the shrieking confusion. The third time was during a "war of the worlds" story arc - where the world was under threat from slug-like aliens with advanced technology and big-ass space ships. In that series of adventures, we ended up fighting ALONGSIDE Eurostar, which was an interesting change of pace. That story arc was also notable for two PCs (mine and Armoured suit/inventor guy - I don't mention the character's name purely out of kindness) getting nuked by one of the spaceships, while fighting in orbit. His character "died" (actually had a radiation accident and came back later as a mind-controlled villian tricked out with cool attacks to take advantage of our susceptibilities and weaknesses). Mine survived but was KO'd to GM's option. That turned out to be long enough to undergo uncontrolled re-entry, and wake up *just* before impact - which put me under again It was a great game Cheers, Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamashii2000 Posted June 17, 2005 Report Share Posted June 17, 2005 Re: Eurostar is friggin' fast! You think Pantara was left out of the current version of Eurostar to keep PC's alive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted June 17, 2005 Report Share Posted June 17, 2005 Re: Eurostar is friggin' fast! Did anyone else ever have trouble accepting Durak's name? Sure the sound of it is powerful and threatening, but it does stretch credibility that he would choose a name that means "fool." Apparently it can also mean "bully," but image-wise that's not much of an improvement. I thought of changing it, but l really liked the name, so I decided that Durak adopted it because the KGB scientists who transformed him kept calling him that to mock and insult him. It was kind of an "I'll show you" response: "Here's what a Fool can do to you!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incrdbil Posted June 17, 2005 Report Share Posted June 17, 2005 Re: Eurostar is friggin' fast! I'm thinking of reviving Bora and Pantera with 'sequel' villains for similar roles, the current incarnation of Eurostar just seems to weak. Fiacho, Scorpia, and Fuermacher are relatively easy to take down, and their offense potential isn't spectacular. With just about 20 XP under their belt, my PC's team would probably mop the floor with them..with Mentalla being the only problem since they no longer have a team mentalist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox1 Posted June 17, 2005 Report Share Posted June 17, 2005 Re: Eurostar is friggin' fast! I'm thinking of reviving Bora and Pantera with 'sequel' villains for similar roles' date=' the current incarnation of Eurostar just seems to weak. [/quote'] I haven't bought (and don't play to) any CU products. What was the in-book reason if any for removing these characters? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted June 17, 2005 Report Share Posted June 17, 2005 Re: Eurostar is friggin' fast! I haven't bought (and don't play to) any CU products. What was the in-book reason if any for removing these characters? They were killed in the opening shots of the "viper-eurostar war" or some such nonsense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox1 Posted June 17, 2005 Report Share Posted June 17, 2005 Re: Eurostar is friggin' fast! They were killed in the opening shots of the "viper-eurostar war" or some such nonsense. Oh. Nonsense is right. Such things should be left up to the individual campaigns to decide. I hate mega-plots. Yet another reason to avoid CU products. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starlord Posted June 17, 2005 Report Share Posted June 17, 2005 Re: Eurostar is friggin' fast! Oh. Nonsense is right. Such things should be left up to the individual campaigns to decide. I hate mega-plots. Yet another reason to avoid CU products. Ummm, it is left up to the individual to decide what they use from an official campaign. HERO products don't come with some type of 'brain-locking' device that doesn't let the customer use their own ideas. If you want to use your own campaign world that's obviously fine, but with your last couple posts you don't seem to be hating on the CU...you seem to be suggesting it shouldn't be offered at all (much less one that actual has some type of fluid/realistic history to it). That's just silly IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted June 17, 2005 Report Share Posted June 17, 2005 Re: Eurostar is friggin' fast! Well put, Jeff T. I base my current campaign on the official CU and use a lot of it as-is, but I also tweak the heck out of some elements and add lots of unofficial stuff. Nobody's come around yet to confiscate my books. I find having a detailed background and timeline gives me something solid to hang my campaign on. Assuming I basically like a gameworld setting, it's easier to modify something solidly established than to build everything from scratch. Not that there's anything wrong with scratch-building if you want to make the effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox1 Posted June 17, 2005 Report Share Posted June 17, 2005 Re: Eurostar is friggin' fast! Ummm' date=' it [b']is [/b]left up to the individual to decide what they use from an official campaign. Did they put in 5th edition versions of the dead characters? If not, then they took away the choice of the individual to determine the fate of those characters using official 5th editions rules and versions. but with your last couple posts you don't seem to be hating on the CU...you seem to be suggesting it shouldn't be offered at all (much less one that actual has some type of fluid/realistic history to it). That's just silly IMO. No, I'm saying that I have no use for it. They can offer it as they like. And I can give my opinion of it as I like. Equal footing and all you know. As for fluid/realistic history... that's called meta-plotting or company controlled history. The pros and cons have been debated at length many times on many different websites and I see no reason to repeat that here at this time. All I will say is that I think it sucks. And that I'm in good company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starlord Posted June 17, 2005 Report Share Posted June 17, 2005 Re: Eurostar is friggin' fast! Did they put in 5th edition versions of the dead characters? If not' date=' then they took away the choice of the individual to determine the fate of those characters using official 5th editions rules and versions.[/quote'] What? Seems to me they 'took away' nothing. They just didn't provide official stats for two characters, just like they didn't provide official stats for dozens of other characters briefly mentioned in CKC and other CU books. I'm having a very hard time following your logic there. No, I'm saying that I have no use for it. They can offer it as they like. And I can give my opinion of it as I like. Equal footing and all you know. Well sure. However, by suggesting you hate mega-plots (or official history as it were) you are basically claiming that the company should not even create an 'official' campaign world at all and that all their characters should (I guess) exist in a vaccuum. Again, I'm trying to understand your logic. A general dislike of the world I can certainly understand, but not creating a base world for the huge number of GM who need it, much less the fact that all it really amounts to is a giant book of suggestions and ideas for your own world is something I don't understand. Also, I would hope that if you're just saying you don't like the CU and its supplements that you have actually read those books. As for fluid/realistic history... that's called meta-plotting or company controlled history. The pros and cons have been debated at length many times on many different websites and I see no reason to repeat that here at this time. All I will say is that I think it sucks. And that I'm in good company. Really? Other sites I don't know about, but I've been on these boards for many years through its different incarnations and I can't remember any huge debates as to the fact that an official campaign world shouldn't even be created. I'm genuinely curious as to what the 'cons' would be because I can't think of any. Again, to me an official campaign world is just a big book of suggestions and ideas. How can that be bad? EDIT: I will create another thread on this topic as I don't want to derail the Eurostar discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Posted June 17, 2005 Report Share Posted June 17, 2005 Re: Eurostar is friggin' fast! Did they put in 5th edition versions of the dead characters? If not' date=' then they took away the choice of the individual to determine the fate of those characters using official 5th editions rules and versions.[/quote'] I think you're stretching your argument. I have Classic Enemies which has (the better, IMHO) Eurostar in it. They didn't take my choice away. There's lots of things I don't like about 5E, but there's nothing that makes it impossible for me to play the 4E way I enjoyed with the 4E characters. Your comment of "Yet another reason to avoid CU products," really seems unqualified. With all that I dislike of the changes from 4E to 5E, I still have plenty of reasons to purchase CU products. EDIT: I will create another thread on this topic as I don't want to derail the Eurostar discussion. Wise words. I'll heed to them now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. MID-Nite Posted June 17, 2005 Report Share Posted June 17, 2005 Re: Eurostar is friggin' fast! Well, I think Bora was removed since Zephyr is a similiar character. Steve just didn't want to repeat. As for Pantera, not sure. Fenris sort of fits her "role", but my guess is Steve thought Pantera's origin and MO were outdated(since she had a Golden Age origin). The Whip....don't have a clue....as I'd have loved to see what they could have done with the "whip" weapon in 5th. The new Eurostar isn't too bad, but they lack the "holy s**t" feel you used to get from hearing their name brought up. Now, that honor goes to The Crowns of Krim. Eurostar I'd actually use in more subtle scenarios now. Fiacho is a genius afterall....and Eurostar fights on their own terms the vast majority of the time, as their background states. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellS Posted June 17, 2005 Report Share Posted June 17, 2005 Re: Eurostar is friggin' fast! I hate mega-plots. Yet another reason to avoid CU products. I love mega/meta-plots. The whole reason I'm not that much into the CU is that they don't seem to have any. It's all pick and play. This is the opposite feel of get from Freedom City. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted June 17, 2005 Report Share Posted June 17, 2005 Re: Eurostar is friggin' fast! Gosh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted June 17, 2005 Report Share Posted June 17, 2005 Re: Eurostar is friggin' fast! If I follow Fox1, I think he'd like every character mentioned in the CU to be stated but not given a background. That way he can do with them what he will? Or perhaps the 'original' way it was done where nothing was interconnected and groups were just laid out on their own to be used when needed...I am not sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st barbara Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 Re: Eurostar is friggin' fast! Well, I think Bora was removed since Zephyr is a similiar character. Steve just didn't want to repeat. As for Pantera, not sure. Fenris sort of fits her "role", but my guess is Steve thought Pantera's origin and MO were outdated(since she had a Golden Age origin). The Whip....don't have a clue....as I'd have loved to see what they could have done with the "whip" weapon in 5th. The new Eurostar isn't too bad, but they lack the "holy s**t" feel you used to get from hearing their name brought up. Now, that honor goes to The Crowns of Krim. Eurostar I'd actually use in more subtle scenarios now. Fiacho is a genius afterall....and Eurostar fights on their own terms the vast majority of the time, as their background states. Rob Er is "Zephyr" now in "Eurostar" ? I always thought that she was a lot weaker (and different in style) to "Bora". I don't see her fitting too well into "Eurostar", not vicious enough ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellS Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 Re: Eurostar is friggin' fast! Er is "Zephyr" now in "Eurostar" ? I always thought that she was a lot weaker (and different in style) to "Bora". I don't see her fitting too well into "Eurostar"' date=' not vicious enough ![/quote'] No. She's not in Eurostar. I think he just meant Zephyr is in the book and DOJ didn't want 2 of the same type in the book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRavenIs Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 Re: Eurostar is friggin' fast! Eurostar....a name I hadn't heard in a long time. I GMed quite a few dust ups with the team that existed for 12 years. In that time we had about 20 or so times we fought....my PC's were more or less in the 75pt active power level. The PC's won a total of three times. Each time the PC's got lucky and took out Mentalla and Pentara, but every time that happened we'd usually lose a PC, either they'd die or be so beaten up after that the PC quit the herobiz. When I used Eurostar the PC team would look at me and they would tell me that they hated me. I knew that they loved the fights even if they couldn't win, even when they could have if they actually used teamwork, but all in all they did hold there own. They killed LaSone once and the next time they fased Eurostar....he was back. A Cyborg Version, they really, really hated me. It helped that the team had a PC that had find weakness with all he's attacks, and a high speed. He's attacks averaged around 50pt active, but he'd end up fighting Pentara and the two of them would be real hurt after. The PC once took her out, KO'ed but not dead and we actually cured her insanity. The next time the two teams faced off there was a Pentara, a clone with all her old powers and insanity. So I have fond memories of Eurostar and yes I'd agree THEY ARE FREAKING FAST Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powerhouse Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 Re: Eurostar is friggin' fast! The little kitty was really scary with her 4d6 HKA (with str) AND Find weakness of... 14 was it? Icky though I think she only had one level with a HKA. Of course with a dex of 35 and speed of 7, how much skill did she need? I wondered if she's an example of who should get reduced penetration in that, despite her strength, I really can't see her shredding heavily armored characters with a good find weakness roll. Then again, it IS find weakness and a rake to the eyes would probably hurt even a brick. I guess that in the end, Eurostar was just uber powerful and a GM would probably have to scale them down a bit depending on the nature of their campaign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starlord Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 Re: Eurostar is friggin' fast! Perhaps the Champs-Worldwide book will have a couple suggestions for potential candidates to increase Eurostar's ranks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marketeer Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 Re: Eurostar is friggin' fast! Perhaps the Champs-Worldwide book will have a couple suggestions for potential candidates to increase Eurostar's ranks. Based on the commentary here, it sounds like a certain feline stalker will be sighted in Italy, once again... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulcan Posted September 5, 2008 Report Share Posted September 5, 2008 Re: Eurostar is friggin' fast! Your PCs should be grateful they didn't run into the 4E incarnation of Eurostar' date=' though. There were eight of them, and even the members who have been in both versions of the team were probably more dangerous, pound for pound, under their 4E builds. If you find Eurostar's speed intimidating, Pantera in particular was lightning quick, hard to hit, and could (and would) eviscerate all but the most strongly-Defended targets. [/quote'] (Indulging in a little thread necromancy here...) Don't forget that Pantera also had Find Weakness, so there are darn few strongly defended targets! In our game she took out a Hulk clone in one phase worth of multiple move-bys after several phases of Find Weakness... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
death tribble Posted September 5, 2008 Report Share Posted September 5, 2008 Re: Eurostar is friggin' fast! I keep Eurostar as the classic line up which is Fiacho, Bora, Pantera, Le Sone, Durak and Mentalla. I have the Whip and White Flame as Character sheets as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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