Batman Begins

[James Gillen]

Re: Batman Begins

 

I have heard a lot of great names thrown around for Joker. Names like:

Paul Bettany, Crispin Glover, and even Sean Penn. Who knows who will actually play him. I like Johnny Depp for the part.

 

Aint-it-Cool-News pointed out that Penn started off as really funny (Spicoli) and became increasingly unfunny as he got more 'serious' and political. Which is perfect for Joker, because the Joker is NOT funny.

 

JG

[Chromatic]

Re: Batman Begins

 

He was 52 when he did Batman.

I know this is going against the popular opinion here,

but I liked him as Joker but was not in love with him

as Joker. I felt he was too old and out of shape to

really be taken as a serious rival to Batman.

(ducking for cover)

 

Hawkfu

 

Come now. He was easily in as better shape than Cesar Romero as Keaton was to Adam West. And about the same age too.

[Brandi]

Re: Batman Begins

 

My only quibble was the "microwave projector". it should have been called something else....something techno-babblish like "non-lethal water vaporizor".

 

it's a selective AoE that does not target water enclosed in living things, other wise the people, pets, etc. would have exploded.

 

Actually, it would've had to vaporize water in some unique way, since given PV=nRT (and if you remember your college chemistry-- which I didn't remember all of-- n and R are constants) the temperature increases proportionally to pressure. Getting that water vapor pressurized enough to burst city water pipes means it should've parboiled everyone caught in it.

 

Then again, the movie was compelling enough that I didn't care when watching it-- which is what REALLY counts here.

[Sociotard]

Re: Batman Begins

 

Did they ever mention what the name of the boy was? You know, the one batman threw a bat-gadget at and the one rachel comforted? I kept thinking that could be their springboard to bring in a very junior robin.

 

I really liked the movie, and got to see it in the imax to boot. I was with my little sister actually (she's nine). It was funny. She was captivated through the whole movie, never looked away for the intense action or the Acid Trip version of Batman. Then Bruce kissed Rachel and she closed her eyes.

[zornwil]

Re: Batman Begins

 

Finally saw it...mediocre, at best.

 

I've rarely seen a film quite so intent on trying to explain things over and over, as if they'd been sprayed by Scarecrow's fear gas and were living an intense fear of losing an audience of 5 year olds.

 

The pace was remarkably slow. I thought the combat scenes were mostly quite good, though the final Batman/Ras-al Ghul one wasn't quite so climactic as I had hoped.

 

Neither my wife or I were impressed at all (surprisingly we are again consistent despite her coming at it from a very different, very non-fan-boy attitude whereas I am in jeopardy of the latter re Batman). I'd have to say Tim Burton's first Batman film was better, even with its flaws.

 

I swear if I heard one more explanation about the toxic gas or the water main about to go I was going to puke.

 

All in all, I'd recommend seeing it if you're reasonably into Batman or as a post-movie DVD rental, but that's about it. At least now I don't feel bad anymore about having waited to see it so long. Pretty much a disappointment compared to the hype.

 

SPOILER COMMENT..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I was really disappointed in Batman's "I don't have to save you" at the end, very much not the Batman hero, very similar to a similar issue in the earlier movie series.

[zornwil]

Re: Batman Begins

 

Ahhhhhh, saw it for the second time today. But then again the first time was only last Friday. So good. Every change in the origin was excellent, especially the impetus of leaving the theater. Detective work makes for boring summer fare so ixnaying the Sherlock Holmesian aspects was a good call. And having a cadre of supporters, like the Shadow's Seconds, was awesome.

 

The Batmobile was a bit much though but I'm sure the toymakers will be happy. Katie Holmes' character really needed to leave Gotham, or her absence in the next movie will be glaring. And Batman's 30! At the start of his career? He's not gonna hold up long enough for Batgirl to come around.

I think the impetus of leaving the theater was entirely heavy-handed.

 

SPOILER:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It was as if we can't discern survivor guilt on our own, and remakes the Batman character in a way that doesn't really add anything.

 

Oh, and meant to mention above, I thought it was a shame that, while they borrowed the incident of being in the cave with the bats, they left out the large face of the bat in darkness being the real supernaturally elemental driver of fear.

[Mister E]

Re: Batman Begins

 

Man, Zorn... I know you waited several months and finally saw the movie with your wife, but come on... your comments remind me more of the movies "Troy" and "Hulk".

 

Yeah, there were a few point in the movie that kept the audience in the theatre from achieving instant nirvana from watching it, but "Batman Begins" was rock-solid kick-***.

 

Nice bit of Thread-Necromancy, btw.

[Zed-F]

Re: Batman Begins

 

I get the impression Zorn likes Silver Age Batman better than Dark Champions Batman.

[Mister E]

Re: Batman Begins

 

Which brings up the question, "Why the hell isn't Adam West getting more work, these days?"

I love that guy. West rawks. Please don't let him go the way of That-Which-Was-Once-Known-As-Shatner... I couldn't bear to witness the horror of that twice in one lifetime.

[zornwil]

Re: Batman Begins

 

I get the impression Zorn likes Silver Age Batman better than Dark Champions Batman.

No, not at all! My favorite Batman is Miller's and I really liked the Year One book. In fact, a major disappointment is that I thought this was supposed to be like Year One. My wife asked, in disbelief, "Was this like the comic???" I was glad to say "No, not at all - well, a few things, but not much."

[Guest George Kirby]

Re: Batman Begins

 

Which brings up the question, "Why the hell isn't Adam West getting more work, these days?"

I love that guy. West rawks. Please don't let him go the way of That-Which-Was-Once-Known-As-Shatner... I couldn't bear to witness the horror of that twice in one lifetime.

 

 

According to IMDB, he's working his tuchas off... just in a lot of quickie B movies, video-game-voice parts, and cameos.

[zornwil]

Re: Batman Begins

 

Man, Zorn... I know you waited several months and finally saw the movie with your wife, but come on... your comments remind me more of the movies "Troy" and "Hulk".

 

Yeah, there were a few point in the movie that kept the audience in the theatre from achieving instant nirvana from watching it, but "Batman Begins" was rock-solid kick-***.

 

Nice bit of Thread-Necromancy, btw.

I liked Hulk quite a bit, I think it's one of the best of the superhero films . Although my wife didn't at all. But we both thought this was mediocre. Not bad, but not great. It just doesn't compare to the other superhero movies that kicked off this wave. We both thought both X-Men movies were much better, for example.

 

I think a big problem was that almost nothing was interesting outside of the action and the cool tech stuff. Like my wife, I didn't find the characters particularly interesting, with the Rachel bit being a real dud as a romantic interest story. And we both giggled through the Sphinx-like dialogue from Ras Al-Ghul - "you must master your fear/rage/whatever..." Dialogue was so flat the actors mostly had a hard time; I think only Morgan Freeman and Michael Caine really managed to bring life to ho-hum cardboard lines, although the supposedly-touching revisiting of "haven't given up on me yet" was just funny.

 

I've never seen a movie waste so much time on trying to explain itself, and even more peculiarly with an iconic character extremely well-known to the public. I understand - and agree - they had to shake off the feel of the prior movie series, but sheesh. Okay, we get it, he travelled to the Far East to experience the criminal and harsh side of life and he's being tutored by ninja-types yada-yada, get on with it already!

 

In general, it also bothers me that they never connected this version of Batman to the street crime fighting that Year One did so well. Not a movie-buster, but detracts from the Batman mythos. Burton at least nodded to it effectively, as we had that awesome kick-off scene where Batman launches into action against those 2 thugs. That movie suffered by comparison thereafter, though.

 

One thing I really liked in this movie was Batman's fighting, except for the final combat scene as I mentioned. His ability to move in a way that leaves everyone scared and distracted was very well-portrayed, and the way he moved through thugs as if they water was the most effective rendering I've seen yet and may ever see of Batman's fighting skills.

 

As a minor nit-pick, Gotham was too much like Metropolis.

 

I wish they could meld the pacing and characterization skill of Spiderman, the look and feel of Burton's first movie, and the combat/action of this movie together in a single Batman film. Then again, I wish they would just tell the Year One story half-way straight - another big problem in this film was Gordon was just not developed enough, we never got a sense of his inner conflict over the Batman figure nor his real motivations (in this case, the movie, unusual for itself, only hinted at his family motivations whereas this is a major part of the character, along with his devotion to community and public service).

[hawkfu]

Re: Batman Begins

 

Huh, I don't agree. I think Batman Begins was fantastic. Gotham looked like a real city, unlike Burton's version. The character was explored really well for me. They really dug in to his psychological roots, which again was really lacking in Burton's version. I also think that Bale was superior Bruce Wayne than Keaton. I liked Keaton, but he just didn't have the right edge to him. With the exception of the Animated Adventures Batman, Batman Begins is the best Batman I have seen.

 

Hawkfu

[zornwil]

Re: Batman Begins

 

Oh, and I should mention, my wife was really looking forward to it due to the director and his reputation, something I'd forgotten about walking in, but she was surprised and dismayed it was the same person making this film as the other film or two she'd seen by him.

 

Lest people think I'm not trying to look at it as an action film, I was. I'd have been happy with a simple action film. But a simple action film requires pacing and moving us through the action to focus on the action. It doesn't make us scream, "Will you just shut your mouths and DO SOMETHING - ANYTHING?!" Although at least when they did do stuff, it mostly worked well. Though I think the too-long chase scene and the final battle scene betrayed a general problem...they were allowed to indulge too much in making this. More economy should have been applied to the running time and script in general.

 

I dunno...sorry to post more, but although I don't think I walked in with amazing expectations, I did have high expectations I guess. I thought they were going to focus on a Batman consistent with the Year One Batman. I thought the movie would be exciting. I thought the lead-up would be less predictable. I thought we'd see a Batman motivated by his inner personality more than being sort of bumped around by the actions of others (we get the impression he only really becomes interested in the streets because of a single encounter with the crime boss, and that returning to Gotham really only happens because of Ras, that the person himself has little concern or care for "the little people", that he in fact isn't trying to prevent the deaths of other innocent people).

 

Or maybe I'm just upset because I didn't get to see the dominatrix version of Selina Klye...

[zornwil]

Re: Batman Begins

 

Huh, I don't agree. I think Batman Begins was fantastic. Gotham looked like a real city, unlike Burton's version. The character was explored really well for me. They really dug in to his psychological roots, which again was really lacking in Burton's version. I also think that Bale was superior Bruce Wayne than Keaton. I liked Keaton, but he just didn't have the right edge to him. With the exception of the Animated Adventures Batman, Batman Begins is the best Batman I have seen.

 

Hawkfu

I think Bale is probably the best Batman actor so far in the non-animated movies. (PS - which isn't necessarily saying much, but then again Batman doesn't need to be portrayed by a great actor, he's a shell of a man in many ways, emotionally catatonic much of the time aside from his rage)

 

I think they dug into his psych roots, too, yes, "more" than Burton's, but then they did so in a manner which I found really detracted in some, not all, ways from the character compared to the Miller or animated versions.

 

Shrug, I don't think this city looked any more "real", with its sci-fi rails and massive structures, although I don't think Gotham's supposed to look "too" real since it's an abstract concept more than a place. The thing this Gotham completely lost was its gothic feel and look, which I thought was important for Batman, although the deco look of the animated series was also quite quite good and I would be happy with that as well in a live-action movie.

[James Gillen]

Re: Batman Begins

 

Which brings up the question, "Why the hell isn't Adam West getting more work, these days?"

I love that guy. West rawks. Please don't let him go the way of That-Which-Was-Once-Known-As-Shatner... I couldn't bear to witness the horror of that twice in one lifetime.

 

He's the Mayor of Quahog!

 

JG

[Hermit]

Re: Batman Begins

 

He's the Mayor of Quahog!

 

JG

 

And he's a man who loves his taffy

 

[KA.]

Re: Batman Begins

 

Good points, Zornwil, but what about the most distracting thing in the movie . . .

 

The MOLE!

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showpost.php?p=753445&postcount=49

KA.

[zornwil]

Re: Batman Begins

 

I'm glad I didn't see your comment before I saw it, the mole might have gotten to me!

 

I meant to mention, I really liked the Scarecrow.

[zornwil]

Re: Batman Begins

 

On a side note, despite all the comments I made, I would like to see the next film as it might be better now that they feel (I would hope!) they've managed to get across the central points and themes of the character.

[Savinien]

Re: Batman Begins

 

I'm somewhere between zornwil and the rest. I liked the movie, but I wouldn't say better than Burton. It was different and good.

[Publius]

Re: Batman Begins

 

I recently re-watched the movie with my parents as it has hit the cheap seats. My mother, the hopeless romantic, wanted to know if there was any romance in it. My response was "Not really. The girl in the film is out of her league." When I watched it the second time however I was convinced that her little speech at the end was a blessing. She was an sanctimonious b*tch through the entire movie. Every time she saw him she expressed her disappointment of him. He managed to dodge the bullet with that fricking harpy there by the end. For Bat-villains screw Joker or the Ras-meister, my money is that this chippie is gonna hammer him until he's about 2'10".

 

I can see it in my mind's eye...

 

"You know, you could have saved me faster had you launched off from the left foot rather than the right and swung counterclockwise through the swinging blades of death. What a waste of energy. What would your parents have thought?"

 

"You didn't have to beat those men trying to kill me so hard. I'm so embarassed to be saved by someone as heavy handed as you."

 

"Oh there you are. Yes, I know that the crime rate has gone down but are you aware that there are speed limits? And where is the safety inspection for that harness? What kind of example are you setting for the other vigillantes?"

 

Take your holier-than-thou attitude and save yer own butt next time sister. If they do another movie with her in it I want to see the Gwen Stacy ending.

[Mister E]

Re: Batman Begins

 

How tall is Christian Bale, anyhow? If we're going to suck all pleasure out of this movie, I want to know...

 

Seriously, I had a few (several) gripes about Batman Begins, too. It was far from perfect, and like all movies, I wish they had let me co-direct/edit it; but honestly, I was blown away by the experience as a whole. Several times I caught myself literally sitting on the edge of my seat, attempting to take it all in.

[Publius]

Re: Batman Begins

 

Actually, I loved the movie. I thought Bale did a great job, the plot moved (for me at least, I didn't expect an exploding car every five minutes). I just hated the girl's role, which ultimately really doesn't matter anyway given the end (thankfully). Overall, the movie is spectacular, best Batman movie thus far. It almost makes up for that overproduced monstrocity that was Batman & Robin.

[Mister E]

Re: Batman Begins

 

Yeah, I know I'm a closet geek and all: but I didn't think this movie needed a love interest subplot, so much... especially since it was easily the weakest part of the movie, and what's-her-face is such a ho-hum actor.