Trained Chicken Posted January 27, 2006 Report Share Posted January 27, 2006 Re: The Marvel Magnificent Seven (Avengers) The character of Hank Pym nearly singlehandedly saved superheroes as a genre. Never been the most popular, but definitely very important to the modern development of the genre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigil Posted January 27, 2006 Report Share Posted January 27, 2006 Re: The Marvel Magnificent Seven (Avengers) How do you see that he saved the genre? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
massey Posted January 27, 2006 Report Share Posted January 27, 2006 Re: The Marvel Magnificent Seven (Avengers) Hank Pym's most important contribution to the Avengers is having that kid of his. What kid? Ultron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigil Posted January 27, 2006 Report Share Posted January 27, 2006 Re: The Marvel Magnificent Seven (Avengers) I'm still not sure how Hank's creation of Ultron, cool as it was, "saved the genre". The genre, to my recollection was booming and in no danger creatively or economically in the early to mid to late sixties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trained Chicken Posted January 27, 2006 Report Share Posted January 27, 2006 Re: The Marvel Magnificent Seven (Avengers) Okay, maybe I'm confusing "genre" with a small stable of books Marvel was using to trot out various ideas, superhero-oriented and otherwise. In any case, he's such a fabulously multifaceted character, I can't see the Avengers without him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigil Posted January 27, 2006 Report Share Posted January 27, 2006 Re: The Marvel Magnificent Seven (Avengers) I agree. My favorite incarnation was his Yellowjacket persona, mostly because of the extremely cool costume (it's still one of the best). Although, even on that front, Hank Pym has had more cool costumes than just about tnay other character. Sadly, character-wise, I think he's been almost as maimed and mistreated and maligned as Wonder Man, which is saying something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spidey88 Posted January 27, 2006 Report Share Posted January 27, 2006 Re: The Marvel Magnificent Seven (Avengers) Not to mention the direct inspiration for a certain robot-gone-mad in Champions we all know and love - that's got to count for something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spidey88 Posted January 27, 2006 Report Share Posted January 27, 2006 Re: The Marvel Magnificent Seven (Avengers) (sorry - that makes more sense if you read Trained Chicken's comments about Ultron - I was too lazy to quote him.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigil Posted January 27, 2006 Report Share Posted January 27, 2006 Re: The Marvel Magnificent Seven (Avengers) gotcha anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted January 27, 2006 Report Share Posted January 27, 2006 Re: The Marvel Magnificent Seven (Avengers) Maybe it's awfully phallocentric of me' date=' but I always kind of think of Jan as an appendage of Hank. If Wasp is in, then by definition, she's in with her partner Hank. You can't have Wasp without Dr. Pym.[/quote'] Have to disagree there. Jan has participated in the Avengers without Hank during several runs, especially after their divorce. She's served as Avengers' chair twice, and I can't recall Dr. Pym ever holding that position. Don't get me wrong, they make a natural team, and I also think Hank Pym as Yellowjacket is a cooler character than the Wasp, and brings more potential to the team. But Janet has by this point firmly established her own identity outside her sometime-SO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme Serpent Posted January 27, 2006 Report Share Posted January 27, 2006 Re: The Marvel Magnificent Seven (Avengers) No "Marvel Girl/Phoenix" "Supreme Serpent" ? I would have her in instead of "Rogue" personally and maybe "The Beast" instead of "Colossus" to supply the muscle. "Angel" is the one original member of the original "X-Men" that I would leave out. He would be reduced to "spectator" in that lot I think ! Let us not forget that the original X-men lineup was so impressive they got cancelled. No, no Jean Grey. Needed to die, should have stayed dead, RIP in a grave next to the original Thunderbird (he's still dead, right?). Keep her as one of the great tragedies of the MU. Asshats. Anyways, that's my list. When I think X-men, I think of the post-Jean Grey, pre-Gambit/Bishop/Forge/whoever days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstone Posted January 27, 2006 Report Share Posted January 27, 2006 Re: The Marvel Magnificent Seven (Avengers) Yes, John Proudstar is still dead, the shame being he died in a moment of overwhelmingly heroic stupidity/insanity brought on by amazingly short sighted editors. I sware they only keep him dead piss me off and so his brother James has something to brood about (not that James doesn't have enough to brood about mind you...). Oddly, many other characters who died in moments of truly meaningful heroic sacrifice have since returned. Where's the justice in that, I ask? bah! Topic for another day... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted January 27, 2006 Report Share Posted January 27, 2006 Re: The Marvel Magnificent Seven (Avengers) Maybe it's awfully phallocentric of me' date=' but I always kind of think of Jan as an appendage of Hank. If Wasp is in, then by definition, she's in with her partner Hank. You can't have Wasp without Dr. Pym.[/quote'] I also disagree. In about the 150 range, Jan came very close to rejoining without Hank, who wanted to focus on his lab work. In the early 200's, when they separated, Jan was with the team for dozens of issues without Hank. when hank did reappear, it was in the West Coast book, while jan continued membership (and chairing, for a time) the East Coast team. Jan has evolved as a character much more than Hank. From a superhero perspective, I'd say the evolution of the characters is such that Hank is more an appendage of Jan than the other way around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austenandrews Posted January 27, 2006 Report Share Posted January 27, 2006 Re: The Marvel Magnificent Seven (Avengers) Hank Pym is more like Jarvis than a regular Avenger. He's around a lot, but his presence on the superhero team itself is not all that significant. Thor definitely belongs on the list. His number of appearances may be lower than some, but he's been an iconic Avenger from day one. Vigil, does your number for Hawkeye include when he was Giant-Man? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigil Posted January 27, 2006 Report Share Posted January 27, 2006 Re: The Marvel Magnificent Seven (Avengers) Yes, Hawkeye's count includes the issues when he appeared as Goliath (which was ultimately cool btw). On the topic of Jan, many may forget that it was Jan who lead the Avengers through what was definately one of their darkest hours, the siege of Avengers mansion by the Masters of Evil. People may forget and assume Cap was in charge but it was Jan. In fact,other than Cap, Jan may well be the most effective chairperson the Avengers have ever had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st barbara Posted January 28, 2006 Report Share Posted January 28, 2006 Re: The Marvel Magnificent Seven (Avengers) Let us not forget that the original X-men lineup was so impressive they got cancelled. No, no Jean Grey. Needed to die, should have stayed dead, RIP in a grave next to the original Thunderbird (he's still dead, right?). Keep her as one of the great tragedies of the MU. Asshats. Anyways, that's my list. When I think X-men, I think of the post-Jean Grey, pre-Gambit/Bishop/Forge/whoever days. I think that you are being a bit hard on poor Jean "Supreme Serpent". Okay so she had a few bad days, got 'seduced to the dark side' by "Mastermind", destroyed a few planets, caused untold death and destruction and even teamed with "Darkseid" in a "crossover" with the X-Men" and the "Teen Titans" but hey, give a girl a break she's had it rough. Suddenly going from being the weak link of the team to one of the strongest mentalists in the Marvel Universe more or less overnight will turn any girl's head, and then there's her frequently turbulent relationship with "Cyclops' to consider ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigil Posted January 28, 2006 Report Share Posted January 28, 2006 Re: The Marvel Magnificent Seven (Avengers) Absolutely, it was all Cyclops's fault! If he'd have spent more time at home and less at work with his creepy, bald, boss things would have worked out much better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted January 28, 2006 Report Share Posted January 28, 2006 Re: The Marvel Magnificent Seven (Avengers) This is rather off-topic, but I thought some of you might find it of interest. Some time back I created a team of supervillains from Latin America who worked as mercenaries for various organized crime groups, revolutionaries and corrupt politicians from the region. I called them The Ravagers and based them off one of the classic Avengers lineups, but using names and themes from Latin America. My players had little trouble recognizing them (which was part of the fun of using them), and I doubt I'll have to explain them to anyone reading this thread: The Cartel Commando, a trained soldier with enhanced physical abilities gained from a refined derivative of cocaine; Thunder, avatar of the Inca storm god of the same name; The Golden Man, powered-armor wearer; Andes, brick with growth and density powers; Killer Bee, with shrinking and insect-based powers; Bruja, mistress of elemental magiks; Atlatl, highly skilled with that traditional Aztec dart-thrower, using gimmicked projectiles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austenandrews Posted January 28, 2006 Report Share Posted January 28, 2006 Re: The Marvel Magnificent Seven (Avengers) Wow. I've never seen a super with an atlatl before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trained Chicken Posted January 28, 2006 Report Share Posted January 28, 2006 Re: The Marvel Magnificent Seven (Avengers) Heh, I've never seen anyone other than an UG with an atlatl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted January 28, 2006 Report Share Posted January 28, 2006 Re: The Marvel Magnificent Seven (Avengers) Atlatl was kind of my favorite due to an innovation I came up with. I happened to notice that an atlatl, with its handle at one end projecting outwards almost at right angles to the shaft-holding section, looks vaguely like a tonfa, the Japanese karate weapon. So I gave Atlatl a karate martial art package and let him use his modified atlatl like a tonfa in HTH. Made for an unpleasant surprise for the first PC who closed with him, figuring he'd be weaker than at range. Heh' date=' I've never seen anyone other than an UG with an atlatl.[/quote'] Please forgive my ignorance... UG? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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