So ... uhm ... Pulp ... yeah.

[CrosshairCollie]

With the last chapter of his Urban Arcana game wrapped up, a friend of mine in the group is planning to use his freshly-acquired Pulp Hero game for his next GMming outing.

 

Unfortunately, the only kind of pulp I'm really familiar with is the kind that comes in country style orange juice.

 

He mentioned several movies and the like that fit the genre, of which I had (predictably) seen only one (the Shadow), which makes for, shall we say, a small representative sampling of the genre at hand. From what I gather, anything resembling 'powers' tend to be subtle (if not strictly kept to mental abilities, a la mesmerism and the Shadow's 'clouding the minds of men'), though there can be some very large and flashy pseudoscientific gadgetry, usually with unwieldy names.

 

(He's also the only one with the book, so I can't really just, y'know, read it at my leisure. At the moment, I'm skimming Wikipedia entries.)

 

Any pointers for a pulp newbie?

[BlackSword]

Re: So ... uhm ... Pulp ... yeah.

 

The Indiana Jones movies are very pulpish.

 

On-line, Scott Bennie's Friends of Justice characters are a good start for pulp characters in Hero.

[BobGreenwade]

Re: So ... uhm ... Pulp ... yeah.

 

The Phantom is another great pulp-style movie.

 

See if you can find the old Green Hornet TV series. It's based on an old radio serial, and though it was updated for the sixties it still had a lot of good pulp feel to it.

[Mike W]

Re: So ... uhm ... Pulp ... yeah.

 

Classic pulp heroes are larger than life, yet realistic adventurer types. There is a souce material thread on this board but good places to start:

 

Indiana Jones

Allan Quartermain(King Solomon's Mines)

Any adventure/early sci-fi stuff written by Jules Verne, Rudyard Kipling, or Robert Louis Stevenson in general

The Shadow

The Phantom

The Green Hornet

A lot of the other early radio, tv, and movie serials(even Flash Gordon and Dick Tracy in their own ways)

Zorro

The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen

 

You could make a good case that James Bond is a more modern equivalent to the old pulp heroes.

[BlackSword]

Re: So ... uhm ... Pulp ... yeah.

 

Some other authors.

 

EE 'Doc' Smith, Skylark of Space is very pulpy. (and the Lensman series)

Dashiell Hammit and Raymond Chandler are two key authors in detective fiction.

 

The Rocketeer is good movie on pulp aviation adventure.

The Batman Animated series has some pulpy elements, and the episode, The Grey Ghost, is a pulp hero.

Any of the old serials such as Flash Gordon are scifi pulp.

[Pogo]

Re: So ... uhm ... Pulp ... yeah.

 

fredrik_nilsson posted three useful links in this thread:

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41732

 

I'm rather partial to Wierd Tales -- you may be able to find an anthology or two at the library, but a used bookstore is a better bet. You could do worse than The Rocketeer for movies.

[TheQuestionMan]

Re: So ... uhm ... Pulp ... yeah.

 

Pulp Film Recogmendations

http://herogame.dans.cust.servlets.net/forums/showthread.php?t=30062&highlight=Film

 

International Superheroes - Pulp Heroes

http://www.internationalhero.co.uk/p/pulphero.htm

 

Pulp heroes and villians

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Pulp_heroes_and_villians

 

The Untouchables

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Untouchables_%281987_film%29

 

The Rocketeer

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rocketeer

 

The Rescuers - Furry Pulp

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rescuers

 

 

 

Cheers

 

QM

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: So ... uhm ... Pulp ... yeah.

 

International Superheroes - Pulp Heroes

http://www.internationalhero.co.uk/p/pulphero.htm

 

Pulp heroes and villians

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Pulp_heroes_and_villians

 

The Untouchables

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Untouchables_%281987_film%29

 

The Rocketeer

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rocketeer

 

The Rescuers - Furry Pulp

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rescuers

 

 

 

Cheers

 

QM

 

Thank you.

(Typical me-brain ... I read 'furry pulp' and hit Champions Universe to see when Phillipe Moreau was doin' his stuff ...)

[austenandrews]

Re: So ... uhm ... Pulp ... yeah.

 

Random thoughts:

 

Powers are pretty rare for pulp characters, usually relegated to exotic character types (Oriental mystics, psychics, hypnotists, Indian shamans, etc.) though "Talent" powers like various flavors of Combat Luck are in genre. And yes, powers tend to be on the subtle side.

 

Oriental martial arts were not a real part of popular consciousness in the period. Most Westerners will know boxing, brawling, wrestling, etc. before anything Oriental (though some may have studied "mysterious arts" in the East).

 

Hard-boiled characters are very common. Think Indiana Jones, the Shadow and just about any role Humphrey Bogart played. Lots of gunplay. With tommyguns no less, one of the special joys of playing that period.

 

Mad Science is a common theme. In the usual "pulp period" (pre-WWII) science and technology were racing at breakneck speed. It was easy to imagine the dark underside of all that innovation. As you mention, Mad Science tends toward hulking, lab-size machines with vacuum tubes and exposed electrical arcs, driving gigantic ray cannons or weird energy emitters or liquid formulas with bizarre effects.

 

Also, think Art Deco. Architecture and design were bold and flashy. Often everything seems larger than life - zeppelins, skyscrapers, gigantic cruise ships, rockets painted in garish colors. By the 30's even the cars got oversized. Big structures and bold lines equate to progress.

[Steve Long]

Re: So ... uhm ... Pulp ... yeah.

 

Pulp Hero not only has an extensive bibliography and filmography, but it's chock-full of useful, easily-digested information about the fiction, the period, the themes, the tropes, the elements, and other fun stuff concerning the Pulp genre. We've gotten a lot of really nice comments from people who weren't knowledgeable Pulp fans about how much they enjoyed it and how informative they found it, so hopefully it will work the same magic for you.

[TheQuestionMan]

Re: So ... uhm ... Pulp ... yeah.

 

Pulp Film Recogmendations

http://herogame.dans.cust.servlets.n...highlight=Film

 

I forgot this one. Me bad.

 

QM

[rjcurrie]

Re: So ... uhm ... Pulp ... yeah.

 

The Indiana Jones movies are very pulpish.

 

On-line, Scott Bennie's Friends of Justice characters are a good start for pulp characters in Hero.

 

I think you mean Rod Currie's Firiends of Justice characters which can be found here. Unless you are referring to something else, in which case, it's my mistake.

 

Of course, I can't really complain if my work is being confused for Scott's.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: So ... uhm ... Pulp ... yeah.

 

Random thoughts:

 

Powers are pretty rare for pulp characters, usually relegated to exotic character types (Oriental mystics, psychics, hypnotists, Indian shamans, etc.) though "Talent" powers like various flavors of Combat Luck are in genre. And yes, powers tend to be on the subtle side.

 

I got the chance to flip through the book briefly, and saw a few of those (like 'Good thing THAT was there!', which tickled me greatly), so that, at least, fit my preconceptions.

 

Oriental martial arts were not a real part of popular consciousness in the period. Most Westerners will know boxing, brawling, wrestling, etc. before anything Oriental (though some may have studied "mysterious arts" in the East).

 

That works ... I got the gist of that from The Shadow movie. Makes me wonder if I could recycle an unused Champions character that used Pentjak Silat as listed in TUMA, with the mystical stuff as well ...

 

Hard-boiled characters are very common. Think Indiana Jones, the Shadow and just about any role Humphrey Bogart played. Lots of gunplay. With tommyguns no less, one of the special joys of playing that period.

 

This is probably where my troubles will start. I'm not sure I understand what 'hard-boiled' means, unless we're referring to general unflappability, and I generally dislike guns (well, slugthrowers at least ... I tend to prefer blasters), and prefer characters with Codes Against Killing ... something that I gather aren't also frequent in the genre. I guess I just don't really play 'tough guys' that well. One of the other players mentioned the idea of a World War I ... er, pardon, Great War veteran who uses rubber bullets to avoid killing.

 

Mad Science is a common theme. In the usual "pulp period" (pre-WWII) science and technology were racing at breakneck speed. It was easy to imagine the dark underside of all that innovation. As you mention, Mad Science tends toward hulking, lab-size machines with vacuum tubes and exposed electrical arcs, driving gigantic ray cannons or weird energy emitters or liquid formulas with bizarre effects.

 

This is more like it.

 

Also, think Art Deco. Architecture and design were bold and flashy. Often everything seems larger than life - zeppelins, skyscrapers, gigantic cruise ships, rockets painted in garish colors. By the 30's even the cars got oversized. Big structures and bold lines equate to progress.

 

I should be able to handle this, since superheroic games (my usual genre) and fantasy (#2) often think big and, well, unwieldy and horribly impractical.

[Cancer]

Re: So ... uhm ... Pulp ... yeah.

 

OK, here's some words from an avowed pulp-phobe:

 

Pulp as a genre is defined by "mastermind" villains who are so totally blinded by their egotism that they give away their secret plan, and secret vulnerability, to the first yokel who can make it past the goon squad in front. And said yokel feels compelled to follow through on the "mastermind's" equivalent of the pull-my-finger joke, and pull said finger, at which time "mastermind" collapses into stinky gas and all is right with the world again.

 

It's the same damned stupid setup every time. Now, the chrome varies, I'll grant that, and it can be cool-looking chrome. Dinosaurs; rocket ships; intelligent gorillas; Ark of the Covenant; super-"science" gizmos; Curse of the Mummy; the list is endless.

 

But it works out the same in the end. Clueless Mary Sue hero walks in past the sleeping maladroit guards (there are no truer words than "Why must I be surrounded by frickin' idiots"), stumbles over the Dreaded Wedgie of Doom, snaps the mystic elastic, and adventure's over, simply because, well, it's Mary Sue versus the oh-so-intelligent egotist twit. (A powerful theme in every pulp story is that being Average Joe is much better than being highly intelligent, and being too intelligent is an aspect of being evil.) Pulp Mary Sues tend to be far less superpowered than their equivalent in other genres, simply because the Big Bads in pulp always fold over completely when the right plot coupon is played, and the tools of the bad guy either are incompetent or similarly have an obvious flaw that lets people escape with good cinematics.

 

The quality of a pulp story/adventure is judged by how high the chrome is piled, and to a lesser extent how consistently the chrome has been shovelled out of the same one or two bins. You're allowed to shovel chrome out of different bins, e.g., the Ancient Egypt bin and the Mystic Powers bin, as long as you splice in three sentences of pulpobabble justifying that they're the same chrome for this story. But do that trick too much -- and "too much" usually is more than once per story (but you can get away with it ad infinitum in a story series) -- and it's less satisfying. You've gone past the limits of pulp and now you're going into dark conspiracy.

 

In a pulp campaign, the stat that matters is PRE. You can never be too charismatic. The stat that's overpriced is INT. A character can be dumb as a post and still fulfill all the requirements needed for being a pulp hero. In fact, if your INT is too high, you have to be a villain, because being intelligent and thoughtful is Evil in the pulp genre. (If you are intelligent, the only way you can still be a hero is to avoid the realization that most other people aren't as intelligent as you are.) As a rule, pulp heros don't solve puzzles; they just have to have high enough DEX to be able to catch the solution when it is dropped on them.

 

OK, I'm guilty of slamming a genre. I apologize. But that's what I think of pulp, and if you've never done pulp before, maybe you're the same sort of player I am. Your mileage is guaranteed to vary.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: So ... uhm ... Pulp ... yeah.

 

In a pulp campaign' date=' the stat that matters is PRE. You can never be too charismatic. The stat that's overpriced is INT. A character can be dumb as a post and still fulfill all the requirements needed for being a pulp hero. In fact, if your INT is too high, you have to be a villain, because being intelligent and thoughtful is Evil in the pulp genre. (If you are intelligent, the only way you can still be a hero is to avoid the realization that most other people aren't as intelligent as you are.) As a rule, pulp heros don't solve puzzles; they just have to have high enough DEX to be able to catch the solution when it is dropped on them.[/quote']

 

So, the 23 INT and Skill Master for INT-based skills is overkill?

[Supreme Serpent]

Re: So ... uhm ... Pulp ... yeah.

 

It can be a pretty broad genre (like pretty much any general genre can be) too. Might want to check with your GM on what kind of pulp game he's interested in doing. Like for a supers genre-game, don't want to get immersed in Ghost Rider and Punisher and find out you're in the Legion of Super Heroes.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: So ... uhm ... Pulp ... yeah.

 

It can be a pretty broad genre (like pretty much any general genre can be) too. Might want to check with your GM on what kind of pulp game he's interested in doing. Like for a supers genre-game' date=' don't want to get immersed in Ghost Rider and Punisher and find out you're in the Legion of Super Heroes. [/quote']

 

The converse is more likely (the fact that the first two things that hit any character sheet I make is 'Psych Lim: Code vs Killing' and 'Distinctive Features (Anthropomorphic Animal)' have essentially become running gags), but I take your point.

[austenandrews]

Re: So ... uhm ... Pulp ... yeah.

 

The stat that's overpriced is INT. A character can be dumb as a post and still fulfill all the requirements needed for being a pulp hero. In fact' date=' if your INT is too high, you have to be a villain, because being intelligent and thoughtful is Evil in the pulp genre. (If you are intelligent, the only way you can still be a hero is to avoid the realization that most other people aren't as intelligent as you are.) As a rule, pulp heros don't solve puzzles; they just have to have high enough DEX to be able to catch the solution when it is dropped on them.[/quote']

There are elements of truth to that rant, but this one is just plain false. A great many - probably most - pulp heroes solved mysteries all the time.

 

Sounds like this guy played a genius character in a pulp game and got burned by a lousy GM.

[Cancer]

Re: So ... uhm ... Pulp ... yeah.

 

There are elements of truth to that rant, but this one is just plain false. A great many - probably most - pulp heroes solved mysteries all the time.

 

Sounds like this guy played a genius character in a pulp game and got burned by a lousy GM.

OK, maybe. My impression is that mystery-solving in pulp is like space drive in Serenity. Both go at the speed of plot. For the detective type in a pulp RPG, that means you get to make deductions when it's convenient for the story (and only when it's convenient for the story), whether you like it or not. To me that's not mystery-solving; that's having your PC be an occasional NPC plot device.

[assault]

Re: So ... uhm ... Pulp ... yeah.

 

I enjoyed Cancer's rant, but it is, of course, not true.

 

Specifically, he ignores the Hard-Boiled Detective and Horror subgenres. And probably espionage to boot.

 

Go and watch the Maltese Falcon a time or two, then read some HP Lovecraft. I was tempted to write: "and play some Call of Cthulhu", but realised that wasn't really appropriate. Play some low-powered Pulp Hero horror scenarios instead.

 

And Doc Savage was Mr Super-Intelligence personified.

[Prometheus]

Re: So ... uhm ... Pulp ... yeah.

 

For the detective type in a pulp RPG' date=' that means you get to make deductions when it's convenient for the story (and [u']only[/u] when it's convenient for the story), whether you like it or not. To me that's not mystery-solving; that's having your PC be an occasional NPC plot device.

 

 

Well there's the rub. That sounds like a GM-With-A-Plan, come hell or high water. It's like having an NPC Superhero rescue your Champions character all the time- it doesn't work in the RPG version.

 

Crosshair Collie- if you're worried about how your character fits in to the game, particularly as part of a group, talk to the GM. It could be as simple as, "Hey, I'm thinking of building the Electric Detective, here's how I envision him... Is that going to fit into your game?".

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: So ... uhm ... Pulp ... yeah.

 

OK' date=' maybe. My impression is that mystery-solving in pulp is like space drive in [i']Serenity[/i]. Both go at the speed of plot. For the detective type in a pulp RPG, that means you get to make deductions when it's convenient for the story (and only when it's convenient for the story), whether you like it or not. To me that's not mystery-solving; that's having your PC be an occasional NPC plot device.

 

Well, to trot out an old line of mine, "What makes for good fiction doesn't always make for good gaming." Many of the tropes from fiction, regardless of genre, don't translate well to gaming because, while the genre may inspire the game, you don't have one author controlling everything.

 

In fiction, let's be honest, EVERYTHING moves at the speed of plot, because of author control (and, sometimes, author ignorance). I mean, if you were the world's greatest detective or scientist, would you be writing for TV or movies or comics?

 

I think this gets filed as bad DMming (or, possibly, depending on exposure, sticking too much to the genre despite its effect on your players).

 

Just out of curiosity, one of the things I remember reading about in PH was how to handle the issue of sexism and racism ... how does that pan out in you folks' games?

[Curufea]

Re: So ... uhm ... Pulp ... yeah.

 

I'm a big fan of Maury Chaykin's Nero Wolfe TV series.

[gojira]

Re: So ... uhm ... Pulp ... yeah.

 

Obviously there's lots of threads here in this forum that you could look at to get an idea of what "pulp" is. Just to draw your attention to one in particular, Gesalt Bennie's Billy Deighton thread has an excellent pulp story and pulp characters, imo. Some really great ideas there what can be done with the pulp genre.

 

The titular hero, Billy Deighton, is what I would consider hard-boiled. It's basically the pulp equivalent of a brick. Billy isn't going to dodge or acrobat his way out of a punch thrown at him, he more likely to take it and throw an even harder one right back. It's a "tough guy" type character.

 

There are a couple more characters that are very interesting. Jack Roscoe is a detective who is also a precog. That's a cool idea. And The Wraith has gadgets which can turn him invisible, allow him to leap 30', cling to the side any surface, and shoot crossbow bolts at people. Plus his name is too cool.

 

Read some of the adventures that these characters are having. You'll find that the adventures are very action oriented. The detective, Jack Roscoe, is basically a light fighter. I haven't seen him figure out anything yet, really. (Note: I've only read the first three or so.) Problems are more often solved by giving evil a swift punch in the nose as they are deducted by reasoning. Just something to be aware of.

[Trebuchet]

Re: So ... uhm ... Pulp ... yeah.

 

Many of the classic pulp stories, such as Tarzan, Doc Savage, and The Shadow, are available for free download at Blackmask Books: http://www.blackmask.com/cgi-bin/newlinks/page.cgi?d=1

 

In fact they have an entire pulp section, leading me to suspect at least some of Blackmask's editors are secretly pulp fans.