L. Marcus Posted April 4, 2006 Report Share Posted April 4, 2006 Re: A Question of Utmost Importance Mjölnir means something like the one who pulverizes. Related modern swedish words are mala -- "to grind something up," and mjöl -- "flour" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starlord Posted April 4, 2006 Report Share Posted April 4, 2006 Re: A Question of Utmost Importance Uh' date=' Stan da Man is pulling your leg then.[/quote'] He's answered the question more than once. As far back as 20 years ago that I recall, because I remember my friend showing our gaming group the comic in which he answered it. Thor was always a favorite of mine so it was kinda important to find out. He made up the pronunciation - Mole Near - shortly after he created Thor the comic book character. I don't think he cared what the actual Norse/Scandinavian was, just like comic Thor isn't a great deal like mythological Thor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted April 4, 2006 Report Share Posted April 4, 2006 Re: A Question of Utmost Importance Ooohhh, this is a Champions thread?! Silly me, I thought i was in Fantasy . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmadanNaBriona Posted April 4, 2006 Report Share Posted April 4, 2006 Re: A Question of Utmost Importance He's answered the question more than once. As far back as 20 years ago that I recall' date=' because I remember my friend showing our gaming group the comic in which he answered it. Thor was always a favorite of mine so it was kinda important to find out. He made up the pronunciation - Mole Near - shortly after he created Thor [i']the comic book character[/i]. I don't think he cared what the actual Norse/Scandinavian was, just like comic Thor isn't a great deal like mythological Thor. Ahhh... Ok, I can buy him inventing his own pronunciation. That sounds like a very Stan Lee thing to do. Most Americans have the same issues pronouncing Nordic languages that they do pronouncing Gaelic.... There is a lack of apprciation for subtle aspirated vowels, dipthongs, and gutturals in English in general, and American English in particular. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted April 4, 2006 Report Share Posted April 4, 2006 Re: A Question of Utmost Importance . . . We have at least eighteen distinct vowel sounds . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapier Posted April 4, 2006 Report Share Posted April 4, 2006 Re: A Question of Utmost Importance . . . We have at least eighteen distinct vowel sounds . . . I have at least nineteen distinct bowel sounds! what!?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted April 4, 2006 Report Share Posted April 4, 2006 Re: A Question of Utmost Importance Rapier wit, indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithcurtis Posted April 4, 2006 Report Share Posted April 4, 2006 Re: A Question of Utmost Importance . . . We have at least eighteen distinct vowel sounds . . . Only 18? Keith "Just found a reference for 22 in English, but sources differ widely" Curtis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted April 4, 2006 Report Share Posted April 4, 2006 Re: A Question of Utmost Importance There's nine basic vowels -- a, o, u, å, e i, y, ä, ö -- and each of those have two modes -- long or short. That's the basics. And then there's the diphtongs, but I don't know how to count those, and the pitch variation on the vowels, which can change the meaning of a word completely (think Chinese!) Fara and fara means "danger" and "going someplace," respectively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Johnston Posted April 4, 2006 Report Share Posted April 4, 2006 Re: A Question of Utmost Importance Only 18? Keith "Just found a reference for 22 in English, but sources differ widely" Curtis "At least" 18. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebuchet Posted April 4, 2006 Report Share Posted April 4, 2006 Re: A Question of Utmost Importance . . . We have at least eighteen distinct vowel sounds . . .Well, that finally explains the severe shortage of vowels in Welsh and the Slavic tongues - the damned vikings stole them while pillaging northern Europe during the Dark Ages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted April 5, 2006 Report Share Posted April 5, 2006 Re: A Question of Utmost Importance I believe that not being able to lift the hammer was a marvel invention- The norse myths include a time Loki stole the hammer and gave it to giants' date=' then when he reliezed what a mistake he had made he convinced Thor to wear a dress as part of the plan to get it back....[/quote'] I've seen that story, but versions seem to differ as to whether Loki stole it or was just recruited byt the gods to help recover it after the Giants stole it. In either case, the story glosses over how Mjolnir was actually carried off. Thor was in a dress and veil to pretend to be Freya, who the giant who had Mjolnir demanded as his bride in exchange for the hammer. (This was Loki's plan, of course.) The version I first read had Mjolnir carried into the bridal banquet hall by four Giants; Thor and his son Magni were the only ones who could lift the hammer unassisted - that part of the hammer's description is pretty consistent. The enchantment on the comic-book version based on "worthiness" is definitely an invention of Stan Lee, or Jack Kirby, or someone else who hasn't been given credit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrosshairCollie Posted April 5, 2006 Report Share Posted April 5, 2006 Re: A Question of Utmost Importance Only 18? Keith "Just found a reference for 22 in English, but sources differ widely" Curtis Probably depends on the timing of the Great Vowel Shift. Not to be confused with a Great Vowel Movement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Mhoram Posted April 5, 2006 Report Share Posted April 5, 2006 Re: A Question of Utmost Importance Not to be confused with a Great Vowel Movement. Yeah, that was when a huge number of Welsh moved to Hawaii and took thier vowels with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted April 5, 2006 Report Share Posted April 5, 2006 Re: A Question of Utmost Importance My name is Cteth Majauyoopallo... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted April 5, 2006 Report Share Posted April 5, 2006 Re: A Question of Utmost Importance I believe that not being able to lift the hammer was a marvel invention- The norse myths include a time Loki stole the hammer and gave it to giants' date=' then when he reliezed what a mistake he had made he convinced Thor to wear a dress as part of the plan to get it back....[/quote'] I think that was part of Loki’s plan all along….he didn’t want the giants to keep the hammer, he just wanted to see Thor in a dress…. According to Stan "The Man" Lee, the name of Thor's hammer is made up. He was asked what the pronunciation was and he said "Mole Near" 'nuff said Then Mr. Lee is probably forgetful. He didn’t invent Mjolnir any more than he invented Thor. Or any more than Gygax invented dragons. Mjölnir means something like the one who pulverizes. Related modern swedish words are mala -- "to grind something up' date='" and [i']mjöl[/i] -- "flour" So it’s probably related to the word mallet? Lucius Alexander "That's Smashing!" says the palindromedary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrosshairCollie Posted April 5, 2006 Report Share Posted April 5, 2006 Re: A Question of Utmost Importance The enchantment on the comic-book version based on "worthiness" is definitely an invention of Stan Lee' date=' or Jack Kirby, or someone else who hasn't been given credit.[/quote'] True ... though I think their version eventually become 'mammothly strong or worthy', since Captain America's lifted it at least once, though I don't think he used it as a weapon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted April 5, 2006 Report Share Posted April 5, 2006 Re: A Question of Utmost Importance I do remember a story of Cap lifting the hammer, while Thor was otherwise occupied with their common enemies. Cap starting wielding it, too... he remarked on how the power of it was "almost intoxicating." Mammoth strength doesn't appear to help, though, at least according to the Justice League/ Avengers crossover. Superman handled Mjolnir briefly during the final battle, but when it was over he tried with all his might to lift it, but couldn't - and strength doesn't get much more mammoth than Superman. Thor remarked that Odin's enchantment will allow worthy wielders to hold the hammer briefly, even while Thor is still in the picture, if the need is great enough: "My father is stern, Superman, but not stupid." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethosos Posted April 5, 2006 Report Share Posted April 5, 2006 Re: A Question of Utmost Importance Wonder Woman was also capable of actualy using Mjolnir--she just chose not to exercise it at all after she picked it up during the Amalagram series. Of course, she is considered a Goddess in her own right, so that may be a moot point. Thor and his son Magni were the only ones who could lift the hammer unassisted - that part of the hammer's description is pretty consistent. Somewhat off-topic... hrmm, Magni was the only one? Now that's a suspicious parallel to King Magni Bronzebeard, of the Khaz Modan dwarves... after all, he is a Mountain King, and uses a massive war-hammer... in fact, one of the abilities in both WarCraft 3 and World of WarCraft is Hammer Throw, which works the same way with Thor. Hrmm... *heads off to WoWWiki for more research* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted April 5, 2006 Report Share Posted April 5, 2006 Re: A Question of Utmost Importance So it’s probably related to the word mallet? Possibly . . . No, I don't know. But mallet gives a more french feel than Old Norse . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZootSoot Posted April 5, 2006 Report Share Posted April 5, 2006 Re: A Question of Utmost Importance Norse mythology is a mythology. Which means that you aren't going to find a definitive answer as to which story is correct, because they are all regional and tribal variations. Even the notion of Odin as the supreme god is not definitive but seems to have been adopted as a way to ease (or oppose) Christian converts by making the Christian God the equivalent of Odin. Thor was the only god strong enough to lift Mjolnir which was designed for him; Magni was strength personified, nothing could be too heavy for him to lift so he could lift Mjolnir too. There was (is) a design flaw in the hammer. The handle is too short, and since it strikes as a bolt of lightning (Thor being not only the god of thunder but the very word thor meaning thunder), the head of Mjolnir returns to its hurler white hot. To compensate for this Thor always caught it with an iron catcher's mit. Like everything else in Norse mythology the gods obtained Mjolnir by treachery, bad faith and unpaid bills. Ragnarok is the cosmos' bill collector. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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