Karma Posted April 5, 2006 Report Share Posted April 5, 2006 Here's a question: Are there any powers that you think have a better than average chance of having their owners become villians? A few threads have shown that some people feel mental powers, especially Mind Control, are of this type, but are there others you can think of. For that matter how about the opposite, are there any powers that are more likely to turn those that have them to the side of good? Are there any powers that you can only see Villians/Heroes having, and that you see no way for the other side to use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted April 5, 2006 Report Share Posted April 5, 2006 Re: Villianous/Heroic Powers Healing seems ripe for abuse but almost never is. Healers in general seem drawn to help others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starlord Posted April 5, 2006 Report Share Posted April 5, 2006 Re: Villianous/Heroic Powers Villainous: Pain/Flesh/Blood Control or Manipulation Unholy magic/powers Mind Control Fear/Anger Control Disintegration powers Decaying/Rotting powers Heroic: Healing Holy magic/powers Love/Happiness/Inspirational/Calming abilities/control Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTemplar Posted April 5, 2006 Report Share Posted April 5, 2006 Re: Villianous/Heroic Powers Well, as I said elsewhere, I don't think any power has an inherent "alignment" so to speak. ANY power can be used for an evil end, or to benefit mankind for that matter. It's the use (and, consequently, the user) of the power that determines whether it's a boon or a bane. Some SFX of powers, as noted above, are DEFINITELY more geared toward good/ evil. That said, Healing and (to a lesser extent) Aid seem to be very rarely used for evil. Darkness (in the traditional "big black cloud of darkness" sense) might carry a bit of a negative connotation, but I wouldn't say it's inherently villainous. Same with many Mental Powers. While robbing someone of their freewill, albeit temporarily, or forcing your will upon them to cause pain or to loot their brain like a candy store may seem suspect as a heroic action to some, there's no doubt it can still be used to serve the greater good in some situations. Maybe it's a "necessary evil" (that's not inherently evil..... if THAT makes any sense. ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarek Posted April 5, 2006 Report Share Posted April 5, 2006 Re: Villianous/Heroic Powers There are no powers that I can think of that cannot be defined solely as "villainous" powers. There are ways to define such things so that they're clearly meant to be evil. "'Rip the living heart from your chest with a thought and display it before you while you're still alive', RKA, 6d6, NND (Power Defense), linked Aid (10d6, only to keep someone alive until the next post-segment 12)" is one that comes to mind as being clearly an evil person's shtick. There are some powers that lend themselves better to villains. Mind Control is a big one. So are extremely high "Superman" levels of PD/ED, Strength, Flight, Body/Stun, all in combination. When you're effectively invulnerable, unless you have some psych lims. of the heroic sort, it is easy to start thinking that you can just take what you want. As a friend of mine says, Superman has to be lawful good, because otherwise he'd be the worst tyrant the world has ever seen. If you want an example of how this could play out, look at the recent run of Hyperion, as written by J.M.S., or the Supreme Power series, also written by J.M.S., both MAX titles from Marvel Comics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savinien Posted April 5, 2006 Report Share Posted April 5, 2006 Re: Villianous/Heroic Powers Or just read the definitive Hyperion stories in the pages of Squadron Supreme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Archer Posted April 5, 2006 Report Share Posted April 5, 2006 Re: Villianous/Heroic Powers The type of power one has does not make a villain OR a hero. The most vile of villains could have a power as innocuous a couple of d6 NND. No one would consider a 3d6 NND evil but I can come up with a couple of dozen evil things to do with it. By the same token, Superman can push around planets, but you never see him taking advantage of other people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdamnhero Posted April 5, 2006 Report Share Posted April 5, 2006 Re: Villianous/Heroic Powers Well, if we believe that all Powers corrupt, then... In seriousness, I agree that it's the sfx and the user that determines whether a power is good or ill. Interrogation (switching to Skills for a moment) is normally regarded as "anti-heroic", but it can also represent a good cop's ability to get subjects to confess. (And for NYPD Blue fans, no I'm not talking about the phone book smackdown method.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austenandrews Posted April 5, 2006 Report Share Posted April 5, 2006 Re: Villianous/Heroic Powers Man, what do people have against Mind Control..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdamnhero Posted April 5, 2006 Report Share Posted April 5, 2006 Re: Villianous/Heroic Powers Man' date=' what do people have against Mind Control..?[/quote'] Now let's not be reopening THAT can o' worms! http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41050 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Posted April 5, 2006 Report Share Posted April 5, 2006 Re: Villianous/Heroic Powers In a superheroic setting, i tend to think of Summon as being mostly evil. Sure, you can summon robots or something else that won't matter if it gets hurt. But summoning a living creature so it can get the crap beat out of it in order to save yourself seems very unheroic. Raise Dead effects are mostly villainous while Resurrection tends to be heroic (with exceptions in both cases). Arguably, all heroes should be running around with STUN only attacks for that matter, while the villains employ anything that gets the job done, including Killing Attacks. But what fun would that be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkwleisemann Posted April 5, 2006 Report Share Posted April 5, 2006 Re: Villianous/Heroic Powers Well, I've got to agree with the general sentiment that it's more SFX and (most importantly) user that determine villainous/heroic nature of a power. The power itself, even its SFX a lot of the time, can be either. Mind control: Villainous - "Worship me! Rob that bank! Kidnap the President! Bring me the still-beating heart of Foxbat!" Mind control: Heroic - "Go to sleep! Stop fighting! Turn yourself in! Bring me the still-beating heart of Foxbat, and make sure you rip it out first!" Healing: Heroic - "Hang on a second, and you won't even know that Mechanon dropped a car on your head." Healing: Villainous - "You do realize that if I do this for you, I'm going to need... compensation... don't you?" Various Black Magic/Demonic Powers: Villainous - Archimago. Various Black Magic/Demonic Powers: Heroic - Raven, a la Teen Titans. So, reallly, it boils down to how they're used 99% of the time, and SFX that other 1%. ^^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karma Posted April 6, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2006 Re: Villianous/Heroic Powers Mind control: Heroic -Bring me the still-beating heart of Foxbat, and make sure you rip it out first!" [/Quote] Oh yeah, that'd heroic. I tend to think that any form of Mind Control in no more or less evil than pointing a gun at someone and telling them to do the same, with the proviso that your not giving them the 'say no and be shot' option (which may be a good thing in some situations). Healing: Villainous - "You do realize that if I do this for you, I'm going to need... compensation... don't you?" I would have said: Healing: Villianous - "O.k. Henchman, I've cured the beating her heroes gave you now back to the fight..." And people seem to be making the same conclusion that I came to, that even the most onerous power can be used for justice, and the most 'heroic' power used for evil. Holy power -Villianous: Angel who sees all sins as punishable by by death. Unholy Power - Heroic: Reformed Demon. Pain Induction- Heroic: Used to knock out criminals. Even: Disease Creation - Heroic: Give the bad guys one hell of a headcold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karma Posted April 6, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2006 Re: Villianous/Heroic Powers Just to be the Devil's advocate: Villainous: Pain/Flesh/Blood Control or Manipulation Used only on villians, and only to the minimum extent required to take them out of the fight. Unholy magic/powers There are enough reformed demons and 'spirits of vengence' in the comics to show how heroes can have these powers. Mind Control If used only to subdue villians or get innocents out of danger. Fear/Anger Control If used to remove these conditions or to frighten off villians (One of the New Mutants could create fear inducing illusions, and she was a hero) Disintegration powers Fired at the floor to put the bad-guys in a hole, weaken the cealing to bring it down of Grond (since you know he can take it and it might slow him down long enough to get innocents to safety, etc. Decaying/Rotting powers See disintergration. Heroic: Healing Keep the minions and villianous teammates coming back for more Hero beatings. Holy magic/powers Angel who punishes all sins (no matter how minor) with death. Witch-hunter who believes that it is better that a hundred innocents die at his hand than one witch go free. Love/Happiness/Inspirational/Calming abilities/control "Join my cult, and I shall bring you all the love and happiness in the world. Give up all your worldly possessions to me, for you have no more need of them. Destroy all the unbelievers for they wish to end your bliss." "It's O.k., don't worry about me, I'll just take this jewelry and be gone, you don't need to get up, just stay calm." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starlord Posted April 6, 2006 Report Share Posted April 6, 2006 Re: Villianous/Heroic Powers Just to be the Devil's advocate: Used only on villians, and only to the minimum extent required to take them out of the fight. There are enough reformed demons and 'spirits of vengence' in the comics to show how heroes can have these powers. If used only to subdue villians or get innocents out of danger. If used to remove these conditions or to frighten off villians (One of the New Mutants could create fear inducing illusions, and she was a hero) Fired at the floor to put the bad-guys in a hole, weaken the cealing to bring it down of Grond (since you know he can take it and it might slow him down long enough to get innocents to safety, etc. See disintergration. Keep the minions and villianous teammates coming back for more Hero beatings. Angel who punishes all sins (no matter how minor) with death. Witch-hunter who believes that it is better that a hundred innocents die at his hand than one witch go free. "Join my cult, and I shall bring you all the love and happiness in the world. Give up all your worldly possessions to me, for you have no more need of them. Destroy all the unbelievers for they wish to end your bliss." "It's O.k., don't worry about me, I'll just take this jewelry and be gone, you don't need to get up, just stay calm." Obviously. I was merely generalizing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted April 6, 2006 Report Share Posted April 6, 2006 Re: Villianous/Heroic Powers Even: Disease Creation - Heroic: Give the bad guys one hell of a headcold. Legion of Substitute Heroes - Infectious Lass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdamnhero Posted April 6, 2006 Report Share Posted April 6, 2006 Re: Villianous/Heroic Powers Healing: Villainous - "You do realize that if I do this for you' date=' I'm going to need... compensation... don't you?"[/quote'] Doctor's charge for their services, don't they? Is that evil? Kinda playing devil's advocate, obviously. And very few Doctors are going to let someone bleed to death because they can't pay. But to quote Churchill: "It is a socialist idea that making profits is a vice. I consider the real vice is making losses." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandi Posted April 6, 2006 Report Share Posted April 6, 2006 Re: Villianous/Heroic Powers Healing: Villianous - "O.k. Henchman, I've cured the beating her heroes gave you now back to the fight..." Nastier version: "Oh, no, no, no. You don't think you're going to escape this interrogation *that* easily, do you?" Especially fun if you have the sort of healing that allows regrowth of bodily parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted April 6, 2006 Report Share Posted April 6, 2006 Re: Villianous/Heroic Powers Doctor's charge for their services' date=' don't they? Is that evil? [/quote'] Depends on the charge. Does our healing Powers character charge a fee for his services, or say "Why yes - I can heal you of your cancer. But first, you have to do something for me. There's this city councillor blocking the rezoning of some land I wish to develop. As soon as you've...removed his objections...come back and I'll cure you." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdamnhero Posted April 6, 2006 Report Share Posted April 6, 2006 Re: Villianous/Heroic Powers Depends on the charge. Does our healing Powers character charge a fee for his services' date=' or say "Why yes - I can heal you of your cancer. But first, you have to do something for me. There's this city councillor blocking the rezoning of some land I wish to develop. As soon as you've...removed his objections...come back and I'll cure you."[/quote'] Fair `nuff. But there again, the evil isn't in the healing, it's in the blackmail. Which isn't even a power. (`Tho I suppose you could build it as an interesting form of Mind Control...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkwleisemann Posted April 6, 2006 Report Share Posted April 6, 2006 Re: Villianous/Heroic Powers Depends on the charge. Does our healing Powers character charge a fee for his services' date=' or say "Why yes - I can heal you of your cancer. But first, you have to do something for me. There's this city councillor blocking the rezoning of some land I wish to develop. As soon as you've...removed his objections...come back and I'll cure you."[/quote'] That's the sort of thing I'd been thinking of (or the infamous "you know, you don't have to die because of this. All it will cost you is your soul....") And I know, the Healing isn't the villainous part - that's kinda the point I was trying to make. It's how a given power is used that makes it heroic or villainous. After all, take a look back at Dr. Black from Horror Enemies in 4th Ed. Entire *character* was built around Aid, but nobody in his right mind would say he was a good guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkwleisemann Posted April 6, 2006 Report Share Posted April 6, 2006 Re: Villianous/Heroic Powers Mind control: Heroic -Bring me the still-beating heart of Foxbat' date=' and make sure you rip it out first!" [/quote']Oh yeah, that'd heroic. *holds up the little 'was joking!' sign and slinks away* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tech Posted April 6, 2006 Report Share Posted April 6, 2006 Re: Villianous/Heroic Powers Any power that I'd make up that's likely end up on the villain's side would probably be Killing Attack, NND KA w/maybe Does Body, excrutiating complex powers because I know how they work and don't have to explain it's build to the players, Multiple Drains in one attack, oh so many to choose from. On the plus side, I have seen some nasty attacks on the players side once in a blue moon. Nasty not necessarily meaning lethal but more of "Ooh, yes, that villain's gonna be feeling that for awhile!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Posted April 6, 2006 Report Share Posted April 6, 2006 Re: Villianous/Heroic Powers Legion of Substitute Heroes - Infectious Lass There was an Infectious Lass? Seriously? I wonder if she started out as virginal lass and built up a rep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Johnston Posted April 6, 2006 Report Share Posted April 6, 2006 Re: Villianous/Heroic Powers Legion of Substitute Heroes - Infectious Lass Which of course is exactly why she was rejected as a functional heroine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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