Irksome players

[Play4Keeps]

Re: Irksome players

 

The guy that's lways got "advise" for you ("do this, do that, hit him like this") but never knows what to do when its his turn.

[Egyptoid]

Re: Irksome players

 

he "Im There Too" Player.

 

We call it PC Teleport in our group.

 

Their PC is helping change the tyre on the jeep,

and gathering food in the forest nearby,

and scouting ahead for the natives,

and studying up in zootoxins,

and helping the rogue who just got ambushed,

asking the mystic about that spell he needs her to memorize for tomorrow,

and all this in just 3 minutes of game time.

 

...he's here, he's there, he's everywhere...

[Alibear]

Re: Irksome players

 

Retroactive gaming does in my nut.

 

A player says he wants to do something. You as a GM tell him the consequences of his actions and then he says "No, I didn't do that!"

 

GM "Ahhhhh!"

[Inu]

Re: Irksome players

 

We call it PC Teleport in our group.

 

Their PC is helping change the tyre on the jeep,

and gathering food in the forest nearby,

and scouting ahead for the natives,

and studying up in zootoxins,

and helping the rogue who just got ambushed,

asking the mystic about that spell he needs her to memorize for tomorrow,

and all this in just 3 minutes of game time.

 

...he's here, he's there, he's everywhere...

Makes me wanna play a duplicator!

[Inu]

Re: Irksome players

 

Players who are out to 'beat' the GM. I'm running a dozen NPCs at once in some scenes, plus keeping villain actions and motivations in mind, and the environment. I'm bound to slip up occasionally. I need a certain level of trust from my players, and I need to put trust in them. The trust I need from them is to not be out to do them down.

 

So if the players come up with a clever scheme that exploits a mistake the villains have made, I first have to look at it and say "is this valid, or is this silly? Is this mistake the villains have made a valid one, or is it me just overlooking something?" If it's the latter, then I modify things. "Sorry, I like your plan, but the situation is slightly different." Some players feel ripped off like that, like I'm changing things just to screw with them.

 

At the same time, I let players do some of the same. If they completely overlooked something that the characters should have realised, I allow a certain level of take-back. Depends how long ago it was, how much has happened since, how much the retcon would change. If the answer is 'shortly, not much, very little', then no problem.

 

I just run my games cooperatively with the players. If my players are going to assume that I'm out to ruin their plans, then I can't run for them. If I'm going to be held to a standard I can't reach, in juggling my villain actions... I can't run for that group. I understand that style of gameplay, I just can't put up with it myself.

[teh bunneh]

Re: Irksome players

 

The Fiddler: aka "Mr. Twitch." This is the guy that cannot stop moving.Tapping the table, arranging his dice, straightening his character sheets, etc., etc., etc. This guy just has to be doing something. If there's nothing to do at the table, he gets up (without warning, much less clearing it with the GM) and walks around aimlessly.

 

Similar to the last two are The Singer, Drummer Boy, and [/b]The Rattler[/b] (you know, the guy who's always picking up his dice and rattling them in his hand, or rolling them and noting down the number---"No, that's not for the game, I'm just seeing which dice are lucky.")

 

Nose-in-book: This guy's always studying the rule book. Not to debate a point with the GM (that's another type, and a real PITA, not merely irksome), but just so he can spout off minutia at the drop of a hat.

 

I'm Hungry: This guy's always got to be noshing, and if there's nothing to nosh, he tries to arrange a "snack run" to go to the store and get some more food. Insists he's not hungry enough for pizza (or other meal-like stuff you could have delivered), so he just has to have a pause long enough to go down the street.

 

Dude, you'd hate to game with me. I'm always playing with my dice or pencils, writing something down, looking at my book, or nibbling on something. And I've always had a hard time sitting still for long periods, so sometimes I get up and walk around the room, or stand to game. You'd kill me after the third session, I just know it.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Irksome players

 

Dude' date=' you'd hate to game with me. I'm always playing with my dice or pencils, writing something down, looking at my book, or nibbling on something. And I've always had a hard time sitting still for long periods, so sometimes I get up and walk around the room, or stand to game. You'd kill me after the third session, I just know it. [/quote']

I'm the exact same way. I can not sit still for more than about 30, maybe 45, minutes at a time. I go insane. I have too much nervous energy to burn.

 

I hate chairs.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Irksome players

 

I'm the exact same way. I can not sit still for more than about 30, maybe 45, minutes at a time. I go insane. I have too much nervous energy to burn.

 

I hate chairs.

 

I usually bring another gaming project with me to the table when I'm playing (that doesn't really involve books ... sketching out a plot, for instance, or scribbing down the basic outline for a villain), but I *only* fiddle with it when something is happening that has absolutely nothing to do with my character, like private conversations or other things where I'm simply not there. It also distracts me so my natural smartassedness doesn't make me throw in remarks into conversations, again, I'm not involved with.

 

It helps that, somehow, no matter how distracted or busy I am, I *always* hear someone saying my name (or, sometimes, just something close to it), so the GM doesn't have to go "Dave? HEY, DAVE!" over and over. He just starts his narration, and I perk up and put the clipboard down.

[Lumbering Ox]

Re: Irksome players

 

Retroactive gaming does in my nut.

 

A player says he wants to do something. You as a GM tell him the consequences of his actions and then he says "No, I didn't do that!"

 

GM "Ahhhhh!"

 

 

Had a player who would always attack another player for any reason, if you "burned" him in real life, he would take it out on your character.

Always took it back when the DM asked if he really meant it.

Then the DM said no take backs.

 

I pissed him off during a game in real life, he did the threat. Pretty much convinced the DM to allow the take back anyways.

 

By that time I was so pissed off with is bad roleplaying, bad attitude and general ickyness that I called him a wimp and knowing my style probably questioned his sexuality [this was over 10 years ago].

 

So he took back his take back and started to swing his 50 cal sniper rifle around. DM rules [iIRC with a dice roll] that I could nail him with my 40 mm granade launcher first as it was a smaller handier weapon. I got a hit to the head. It was sweet.

 

However shapnel killed a beloved NPC who was priviously woulded. Another player who said he would kill anyone who shot at anyone [because of players past BS] gunned me down. Then he was shot at by another player who in turn.... but that is another issue.

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: Irksome players

 

Dude' date=' you'd hate to game with me. I'm always playing with my dice or pencils, writing something down, looking at my book, or nibbling on something. And I've always had a hard time sitting still for long periods, so sometimes I get up and walk around the room, or stand to game. You'd kill me after the third session, I just know it. [/quote']

 

My wife is like that. too much nervous energy.

[Captain Obvious]

Re: Irksome players

 

Had a player who would always attack another player for any reason, if you "burned" him in real life, he would take it out on your character.

Always took it back when the DM asked if he really meant it.

Then the DM said no take backs.

 

I pissed him off during a game in real life, he did the threat. Pretty much convinced the DM to allow the take back anyways.

 

By that time I was so pissed off with is bad roleplaying, bad attitude and general ickyness that I called him a wimp and knowing my style probably questioned his sexuality [this was over 10 years ago].

 

So he took back his take back and started to swing his 50 cal sniper rifle around. DM rules [iIRC with a dice roll] that I could nail him with my 40 mm granade launcher first as it was a smaller handier weapon. I got a hit to the head. It was sweet.

 

However shapnel killed a beloved NPC who was priviously woulded. Another player who said he would kill anyone who shot at anyone [because of players past BS] gunned me down. Then he was shot at by another player who in turn.... but that is another issue.

 

We had a guy one time who did stuff like that. One night, when we were pulling an all-nighter (ah to be back in high school), someone (another PC) had a magic item that he wanted, so he tried to steal it and got killed for his trouble. So he makes another character and comes back to try to kill the guy (for no discernable in-game reason), and we all take him down, because we don't know this new guy. So he makes another character and tries to kill us all (he tried to sink a ship we were on or something), so we kill him again. At that point he started to make physical threats.

[Lumbering Ox]

Re: Irksome players

 

I am reminded of another player in a Call of Cuthulu caimpaign.

 

I took an old Rabbi with the whole knowledge/education/wisdom thing, he took a hick farmer. Any time we came across some old texts, his farmer would grab for them and make a claim with no intentions of ever letting someone else have them. This was strictly for the spells he could get to power up the character.

My character wasen't so much into the spells, but rather the knowledge of what we were facing.

So here is my *character* designed to basiclly do one thing, and unable to do it because antoher *player* is a hog.

 

 

Then there was the palidin who with no warning switched to anti palidin when the DM said he couldn't torture someone.

 

My biggest problem with players are those who is no way ever get even remotely into character. There seems to be this 25% who play roleplaying games as a strict wargamming idea of win at any cost. Minmaxing, rampent cheating, no personality, totally unable to seperate game from real life. Another 50% roleplay a bit but never to the point of sacrificing, and seem a bit weak on the person vs character divide. Then you get that 25% who look at things from the character concept first, and udnerstand that a player and a character can be very different.

 

But then I sometimes suspect I've been cursed with more then my fair share of subpar and horrid players.

[Ockham's Spoon]

Re: Irksome players

 

Lots of bad roleplaying comments posted that I can wholeheartedly empathized with (although I confess I have trouble holding still myself).

 

My most irksome player was frustrating because he was really trying hard but he was just clueless. He was really enthusiastic and had all sorts of nicely creative thinking that was just totally wrong.

 

For instance, the heroes faced off against a big netherworld creature. The mage throws a fireball at it and it is unfazed. So this guy tries to throw flaming oil on it because "Maybe this fire will hurt it because it lasts longer! Besides it has to be really distracting to be on fire!"

 

Or the heroes are battling a powerful wizard who is tromping them. Now the point of this combat was to show the players that they would have to retreat and out-think their foe instead of battle with him. When the other players realize this and start to pull out, this guy goes over to the wizard and gives him his magic ring "as a show of good faith so we can be friends. Then when his back is turned and his defenses are down I stab him!"

 

Or the heroes are trying to hunt down a strangely powerful troll that has been terrorizing a village. This guy's solution is to buy all the livestock in the village, string them all together with a lot of rope, and then parade the animals around the wilderness. Then the troll, lured by all the food, will grab some of the livestock but the heroes will know it because they are all tied together and they can swoop down on them.

 

It was kind of sad really. Eventually the guy got discouraged and left, which was too bad because in most other ways he was really a pretty good player.

[Play4Keeps]

Re: Irksome players

 

Lots of bad roleplaying comments posted that I can wholeheartedly empathized with (although I confess I have trouble holding still myself).

 

My most irksome player was frustrating because he was really trying hard but he was just clueless. He was really enthusiastic and had all sorts of nicely creative thinking that was just totally wrong.

 

For instance, the heroes faced off against a big netherworld creature. The mage throws a fireball at it and it is unfazed. So this guy tries to throw flaming oil on it because "Maybe this fire will hurt it because it lasts longer! Besides it has to be really distracting to be on fire!"

 

Or the heroes are battling a powerful wizard who is tromping them. Now the point of this combat was to show the players that they would have to retreat and out-think their foe instead of battle with him. When the other players realize this and start to pull out, this guy goes over to the wizard and gives him his magic ring "as a show of good faith so we can be friends. Then when his back is turned and his defenses are down I stab him!"

 

Or the heroes are trying to hunt down a strangely powerful troll that has been terrorizing a village. This guy's solution is to buy all the livestock in the village, string them all together with a lot of rope, and then parade the animals around the wilderness. Then the troll, lured by all the food, will grab some of the livestock but the heroes will know it because they are all tied together and they can swoop down on them.

 

It was kind of sad really. Eventually the guy got discouraged and left, which was too bad because in most other ways he was really a pretty good player.

The first one is "wider 'n higher" which doesn't often work the 2nd was dumb but the third had possibles but needed work but could've been made to work. Why'd you put it in with the others?

 

Some way to tell where in the line of animals got smash 'n grabbed by the troll. Or doesn't the troll eat or something is that why its a dumb idea?

[Captain Obvious]

Re: Irksome players

 

The first one is "wider 'n higher" which doesn't often work the 2nd was dumb but the third had possibles but needed work but could've been made to work. Why'd you put it in with the others?

 

Some way to tell where in the line of animals got smash 'n grabbed by the troll. Or doesn't the troll eat or something is that why its a dumb idea?

 

Well, to me, it seems like an obvious trap, and assuming the troll doesn't have any animal-level-intelligence disadvantages, he would be better served by letting these yahoos lead their animals through the woods while he went to the village to chow down on villagers.

 

Seriously, I wouldn't expect any predator with more intelligence than an alligator to fall for this.

[Korvar]

Re: Irksome players

 

We had a guy one time who did stuff like that. One night' date=' when we were pulling an all-nighter (ah to be back in high school), someone (another PC) had a magic item that he wanted, so he tried to steal it and got killed for his trouble. So he makes another character and comes back to try to kill the guy (for no discernable in-game reason), and we all take him down, because we don't know this new guy. So he makes another character and tries to kill us all (he tried to sink a ship we were on or something), so we kill him again. At that point he started to make physical threats. [/quote']

 

Man, that takes me back to my high-school days We routinely made "vendetta" characters who would immediately attack the PC who killed our last character

 

Although admittedly, that was the same period that I came up with my first actual character, when I suddenly thought, "Hey, this guy's a half-elf. One human parent, one elf parent. There's got to be a story to that!"

 

The most irritating player I remember was a guy in a Vampire: The Masquerade game, who went through a character a session, as he played such [expletive deleted]holes that he would generally get himself killled by the powerful Elder he [expletive deleted]ed off.

 

I think my favorite was when we came into the Elysium (the no-violence-allowed official meeting place of the Vampires) to find his latest character, prone, with the leg of an (intact) chair staking him, and the local Vampire Prince sat on the chair, chatting away. We denied knowing the guy, and went about our business.

 

Not that he wasn't occasionally useful. He got his final character obsure-Vampire-disicplined into a bone sword (as you do) which gave me the use of his funky illusion discipline.

 

What I find is the common thread of the players who irritate me is that they think the entire game - including the other players - should revolve around them, and what they want to do. If they think something's cool, then everything else should be put on hold until they do it or get it. If they think about the consequences at all, they only see the consequences for their character, and the other players around the table can go swing.

 

And heaven help anyone who denies them...

[Ockham's Spoon]

Re: Irksome players

 

The first one is "wider 'n higher" which doesn't often work the 2nd was dumb but the third had possibles but needed work but could've been made to work. Why'd you put it in with the others?

 

Some way to tell where in the line of animals got smash 'n grabbed by the troll. Or doesn't the troll eat or something is that why its a dumb idea?

 

The problem with this plan was tying together a couple hundred chickens, cows, goats, dogs, etc., and getting all the animals to cooperate (as well as convincing the villagers they should let some strangers "help" them by leading all of their livestock off into the woods). Logistically it just wasn't going to happen. This was also his first idea to tackle the problem, not something more sane like ask the villagers if they had any idea where the troll was, or ask THE RANGER IN OUR PARTY TO TRACK THE MONSTER, or if you were dead set on using an animal, borrowing a villager's bloodhound.

 

I did try to be reasonable with the guy, because I liked his enthusiasm, but the other players just couldn't stop laughing.

[Manic Typist]

Re: Irksome players

 

 

It was kind of sad really. Eventually the guy got discouraged and left, which was too bad because in most other ways he was really a pretty good player.

 

What's worse than his ideas was his being lost as a player. A good player is a precious thing, and I think rather than mock him, your players should have acted to encourage him.

 

It takes practice to think "in the situation," and given a little bit of time, he probably could have started coming up with some good stuff.

 

Shame.

[Ternaugh]

Re: Irksome players

 

Most of my irksome players fall into a few categories:

 

1. The Samurai in a world without 'em: I've had several players insist on creating characters, who, if not exactly a Samurai, were close enough copies. One player even had the chutzpah to be Hunted by a rival House at 14-. His Hunted showed up a lot, much to his surprise. Another based his combat on achieving first strike. And he was devastating, until an opponent blocked his first strike.

 

2. The Cheater: I'm always truly amazed that someone would cheat in one of my games. I play things cinematically, and it's really difficult (though not impossible) for a character to be killed off. And I base challenges more on roleplaying than on die rolls. It's therefore amazing that I've had players use loaded dice, trick rolls, character sheet "editing", and various other methods of cheating. I even had one person attempt to read my notes while I was out of the room. For the various dice problems, I've either provided my own pool of dice, or (for the trick roller), asked for rolls that would then be used for the npc that they were opposing. For the note reader, well, he was up against two problems. First, I'm left-handed, so my notebooks tend to run back-to-front, so his information was out of order for a right-handed reader. Second, I frequently change my mind about future adventures, based upon the actions of the players. This player revealed his cheating when the adventure that he was expecting changed direction in the middle. He made the mistake of acting on what he had read, rather than what I had just described for an encounter, with disasterous results.

 

The Bully: I've been extremely lucky with the quality of many of my players. With most player groups, there will emerge a leader, who will influence the general game type. And my long-running campaign has had its battle-hardened commanders, political manipulators (Jason Vester of Broken Kingdoms fame), quest-seekers, and mystery solvers. But one player that was recommended to me wanted the game to go in a totally different direction. He didn't like action; during one plot hook, he decided to find a quiet tree, and read a book, rather than participate. The worst part of it was that he actively bullied the other players into following his actions, even though they didn't want that type of game. And when he didn't get his way, he decided that they weren't allowed to play anymore. He used real-world leverage; two of the players shared the apartment with him, and he bullied and threatened them until they withdrew from the game.

 

JoeG

[Lumbering Ox]

Re: Irksome players

 

I knew a player who wanted to take a Ninja even though the oriental type worlds were very very far away, and meant as a future mega exploration caimpiagn for the PC's in the future. When told of the distance issues, he says, "how about if he came over on a boat", as if rowing yourself across an ocean in a dory is an easy and sane thing to do.

 

I've noticed that when I roll characters and consider the statisics involved that the about 90% of people bring in characters whose stats are above the statisical probablility and generally much so. It is to the point that normally rolled characters just seem a bit weak and plain.

Again, maybe god just hates me, but it seems most players cheat to some degree or another.

[Ternaugh]

Re: Irksome players

 

I knew a player who wanted to take a Ninja even though the oriental type worlds were very very far away, and meant as a future mega exploration caimpiagn for the PC's in the future. When told of the distance issues, he says, "how about if he came over on a boat", as if rowing yourself across an ocean in a dory is an easy and sane thing to do.

 

I've noticed that when I roll characters and consider the statisics involved that the about 90% of people bring in characters whose stats are above the statisical probablility and generally much so. It is to the point that normally rolled characters just seem a bit weak and plain.

Again, maybe god just hates me, but it seems most players cheat to some degree or another.

My player's character was probably on the same boat. When he kept getting accosted by his Hunteds in various ways, he complained that they should have been in the homeland, not following him in the campaign area. I pointed out the standard Hero disad mantra*, and he asked me how they managed to get there. "Maybe they used the same ship you did".

It all worked out okay a few adventures later, when he dishonored his clan by violating his Code of Honor. He's the one that decided that the penalties for dishonor matched the historic Samurai code.

 

JoeG

*A Disadvantage that isn't a disadvantage is worth no points. Moral of the story: don't take Hunted 14-, More Powerful, Non-Combat Influence, Wants to harshly punish or kill character, if you don't want to roleplay the consequences frequently.

[Egyptoid]

Re: Irksome players

 

Re: Worst example of matching the campaign to the characters (or vice-versa)

STAR HERO CAMPAIGN, very much like Star Wars.

 

We've got the Merc Jedi. We've got the Ace Pilot.

We've got the Noble Girl. We've got the Alien Brick.

We've got the Thieving Kid. We've got the Sentient Droid.

 

Then there was Justin.

 

GM: "Justin what's your character?"

JN: "a tall wispy albino with mystic powers"

GM: "Oh a force adept?"

JN: "No, one day I shall be sorceror supreme of this entire galaxy"

[Robyn]

Re: Irksome players

 

Then there was Justin.

 

GM: "Justin what's your character?"

JN: "a tall wispy albino with mystic powers"

GM: "Oh a force adept?"

JN: "No, one day I shall be sorceror supreme of this entire galaxy"

 

:blinks: Wait. He wanted to play Elric of Melnibone?

[input.jack]

Re: Irksome players

 

At the same time, I let players do some of the same. If they completely overlooked something that the characters should have realised, I allow a certain level of take-back. Depends how long ago it was, how much has happened since, how much the retcon would change. If the answer is 'shortly, not much, very little', then no problem.

 

I just run my games cooperatively with the players. If my players are going to assume that I'm out to ruin their plans, then I can't run for them. If I'm going to be held to a standard I can't reach, in juggling my villain actions... I can't run for that group. I understand that style of gameplay, I just can't put up with it myself.

 

Agreed wholeheartedly. One of the things that we, as a group, try to keep in mind is that the Players are in the Character's head once a week or less, while the Character lives in their world full-time, and wont make dumb mistakes that anyone actually -in- the situation could see from a mile away. Like forgetting to bring SCUBA tanks for your diving expedition, etc.

[Susano]

Re: Irksome players

 

:blinks: Wait. He wanted to play Elric of Melnibone?

 

Either that or a really screwed up Sith.