If Healing was a flavor: HERO = Vanilla

[mayapuppies]

So I'm bumping up against a problem with healing magic in HERO. I'm from a Rolemaster background and the healing system was absolutely incredible. The variety of healing actually made a "healer" type character possible (and damn near necessary).

 

However, in the HERO system, it's well, lacking. Do any of you have any idea's as to how I can spice up the HERO healing mechanics? Maybe through hamstringing the base ability with limitations?

[Old Man]

Re: If Healing was a flavor: HERO = Vanilla

 

I'm not sure what you're looking for with this.

 

I'm assuming you're looking at the Power, Healing.

 

Generally, people will have Heal BODY, Simplified Healing, or Reneration.

Heal BODY and Simplified Healing have limits on how much they can heal per (day?)

 

What things did you feel are missing?

[Eosin]

Re: If Healing was a flavor: HERO = Vanilla

 

So I'm bumping up against a problem with healing magic in HERO. I'm from a Rolemaster background and the healing system was absolutely incredible. The variety of healing actually made a "healer" type character possible (and damn near necessary).

 

However, in the HERO system, it's well, lacking. Do any of you have any idea's as to how I can spice up the HERO healing mechanics? Maybe through hamstringing the base ability with limitations?

 

 

If you have HDv3 you can download "The Last Dominion Spells" prefabs which includes the healing spells. 'Course, I'd prefer if you bought the campaign book from the online store

 

In the end, without knowing how you actualize magic, it is hard to come up with a flavorful magic healing. Want to detail the Maya Magic?

[sbarron]

Re: If Healing was a flavor: HERO = Vanilla

 

LOL, you always do this! Can you be more specific about what you are looking for? I've never played Rolemaster, so I don't know how it worked. Do you want Hero healing to be less effective? More effective? Less or more effective based on the spells or ingredients used?

 

To say that you think Hero's healing "is lacking," makes it almost impossible to help you. The ways it can be tweaked are endless. Give us something to work with.

[austenandrews]

Re: If Healing was a flavor: HERO = Vanilla

 

But vanilla is my favorite flavor.

 

For variety, try Healing with various Side Effects on the caster and/or the recipient; EGO-based Healing; mass Healing (AoE); object "healing" (i.e., Transform wooden object into living tree); Healing potions (Focus + Trigger); Healing with other Triggers (magic pools/doorways/beds/grottos/et al.); Healing that requires some task or quest be performed; and on and on.

[mayapuppies]

Re: If Healing was a flavor: HERO = Vanilla

 

Sorry guys, I always assume people know Rolemaster. Let me explain Rolemaster a bit more.

 

The combat system for Rolemaster includes a wide variety of critical results. These results range anywhere from broken nose to severed tendons to broken limbs to nerve damage to missing eye to coma's. The effects can come from bludgeoning, slashing, stabbing, burning, etc.

 

In other words a rather extensive variety and detail about the types of wounds that you receive.

 

HERO (by its nature) does not go into this level of detail and thus, the Heal power doesn't either. It's a simple matter of healing STUN/BOD either instantly or over a period of time. To me that basically means only two basic types of healing spells are generally possible (e.g. Simplified or Regen).

 

If I am using the hit locations in my combat and a player gets a broken arm it is healed in exactly the same manner as another player who is only suffering from 2 BOD damage to his torso. This, to me, just seems bland.

 

Of course, this could all just be my unfamiliarity with the Heal power and the possibilities that could be created with it. But at first blush it just seems like there is a lack of interesting ways to utilize the Heal power and thus negate any reason to have a character focused on healing.

 

I hope that helps explain my position, I don't intend to always be so vague.

[mayapuppies]

Re: If Healing was a flavor: HERO = Vanilla

 

If you have HDv3 you can download "The Last Dominion Spells" prefabs which includes the healing spells. 'Course, I'd prefer if you bought the campaign book from the online store

 

In the end, without knowing how you actualize magic, it is hard to come up with a flavorful magic healing. Want to detail the Maya Magic?

Unfortunately I only have 2.42

[mayapuppies]

Re: If Healing was a flavor: HERO = Vanilla

 

But vanilla is my favorite flavor.

 

For variety, try Healing with various Side Effects on the caster and/or the recipient; EGO-based Healing; mass Healing (AoE); object "healing" (i.e., Transform wooden object into living tree); Healing potions (Focus + Trigger); Healing with other Triggers (magic pools/doorways/beds/grottos/et al.); Healing that requires some task or quest be performed; and on and on.

Definitely options, but I'm noticing that all of these affect "How" the spells are cast rather than "What" they can heal, which is my real point.

[austenandrews]

Re: If Healing was a flavor: HERO = Vanilla

 

No reason you can't track wounds by Hit Location and have a suite of spells like Healing: Only For Arm Wounds. For that matter you can track incapacitated/disabled locations separately.

[Scifi_Toughguy]

Re: If Healing was a flavor: HERO = Vanilla

 

Or the wounding in Hero is just like the SFX on its powers. Healing is left broad for a reason, so that the player can define his power as he sees fit. Damage is the same way. You took so much stun or Bod damage *GM does some quick mental calculations* that means you have a cut here, bruise here, dislocated there, yadda yadda.

[John Desmarais]

Re: If Healing was a flavor: HERO = Vanilla

 

The problem with trying to model something like RoleMaster healing is that it's very much built around the expected outcomes of RoleMaster damage - which is much more specific than Hero damage. Having said that though, what kind of damage can you do in Hero that one could potentially heal?

• Traditional Body & Stun damage, as delivered by standard and killing attacks. Cure: Simplified Healing
  
• Loss of limb: Cure: Heal with "Can Heal Limbs" adder
  
• Death: Heal with "Resurection" adder
  
• Stat drains, which can be used to simulate any number of unusual ailments, diseases, and poisons. Cure: Aid "Only to restore staerting values" to Stat (If done as a spell I would probably write up a separate Aid for each stat).
  
• Brainwashing, long-lasting or persistant Mind Control. Cure: Mind Control, "Only to defeat another's Mind Control"
  
• Miscelleneous, a catch all for anything weird not covered above. Cure: Dispel vs any "healable" affect.

What else? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

[Savinien]

Re: If Healing was a flavor: HERO = Vanilla

 

I believe you would need to limit the healing magic just as it is in RoleMaster. You'd also need to be more specific about what sort of BOD is done to each hit location.

 

Simple limitations on the healing spells should do it.

 

Mend Bones (3d6 healing) (only to mend bone damage -1/2)

Tendon Weaving (3d6 healing) (only to heal tendon damage -3/4)

Wound suture (2d6 healing) (only to stop bleeding/heal cuts - 1/2)

 

Depending on type of damage, you'll create healing that only works for that specific type of damage with correct pointed healing spells. HERO is the toolkit. Your additional SFX for your game setting is what sets it apart or spices up the blandness.

[mayapuppies]

Re: If Healing was a flavor: HERO = Vanilla

 

The problem with trying to model something like RoleMaster healing is that it's very much built around the expected outcomes of RoleMaster damage - which is much more specific than Hero damage. Having said that though, what kind of damage can you do in Hero that one could potentially heal?

• Traditional Body & Stun damage, as delivered by standard and killing attacks. Cure: Simplified Healing
  
• Loss of limb: Cure: Heal with "Can Heal Limbs" adder
  
• Death: Heal with "Resurection" adder
  
• Stat drains, which can be used to simulate any number of unusual ailments, diseases, and poisons. Cure: Aid "Only to restore staerting values" to Stat (If done as a spell I would probably write up a separate Aid for each stat).
  
• Brainwashing, long-lasting or persistant Mind Control. Cure: Mind Control, "Only to defeat another's Mind Control"
  
• Miscelleneous, a catch all for anything weird not covered above. Cure: Dispel vs any "healable" affect.

This seems a likely consideration...

I'm also getting the feeling that I am over complicating the system

[Teflon Billy]

Re: If Healing was a flavor: HERO = Vanilla

 

The problem with trying to model something like RoleMaster healing is that it's very much built around the expected outcomes of RoleMaster damage - which is much more specific than Hero damage. Having said that though' date=' what kind of damage can you do in Hero that one could potentially heal?[list']

[*]Traditional Body & Stun damage, as delivered by standard and killing attacks. Cure: Simplified Healing

[*]Loss of limb: Cure: Heal with "Can Heal Limbs" adder

[*]Death: Heal with "Resurection" adder

[*]Stat drains, which can be used to simulate any number of unusual ailments, diseases, and poisons. Cure: Aid "Only to restore staerting values" to Stat (If done as a spell I would probably write up a separate Aid for each stat).

[*]Brainwashing, long-lasting or persistant Mind Control. Cure: Mind Control, "Only to defeat another's Mind Control"

[*]Miscelleneous, a catch all for anything weird not covered above. Cure: Dispel vs any "healable" affect.

What else? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

But won't the Aid eventually wear off thus not being a true form of Healing for Drains? Particularly Drains that have had the time chart fiddled with.

 

TB

[Maceano]

Re: If Healing was a flavor: HERO = Vanilla

 

The problem with trying to model something like RoleMaster healing is that it's very much built around the expected outcomes of RoleMaster damage - which is much more specific than Hero damage. Having said that though, what kind of damage can you do in Hero that one could potentially heal?

• Traditional Body & Stun damage, as delivered by standard and killing attacks. Cure: Simplified Healing
  
• Loss of limb: Cure: Heal with "Can Heal Limbs" adder
  
• Death: Heal with "Resurection" adder
  
• Stat drains, which can be used to simulate any number of unusual ailments, diseases, and poisons. Cure: Aid "Only to restore staerting values" to Stat (If done as a spell I would probably write up a separate Aid for each stat).
  
• Brainwashing, long-lasting or persistant Mind Control. Cure: Mind Control, "Only to defeat another's Mind Control"
  
• Miscelleneous, a catch all for anything weird not covered above. Cure: Dispel vs any "healable" affect.

What else? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

 

 

 

 

Healing covers healing stat loss as well, so there is no need to use aid

[Lucius]

Re: If Healing was a flavor: HERO = Vanilla

 

You know, maybe it's not fair to condemn something on little exposure, but....

 

My only real exposure to Rolemaster was through the Middle Earth Roleplaying Game, which was given to me as a gift.

 

And what I saw of the magick system, especially healing, just looked incredibly stupid.

 

There's this long set of "spell lists" see, each with ten spells in it. You have to learn the spells in order. If you pick a given list, you start off, at first level, knowing the first spell, and you learn the others later, one by one.

 

One list - I think it was "organ ways" or something - starts with a spell to fix noses. So say I choose that one.

 

So here I am, a first level healer, and I can do nose jobs. I can even fix your nose if it was cut clean off, or crushed out of recognition! Sorry, can't do anything about your ear. Can't do anything about that cut on your arm. But I can fix that nosebleed!

 

Now, the good news is that if you want to want to have more variety in healing, Hero lets you do that, and you can do it more INTELLIGENTLY than that.

 

Spells just for curing cuts.

 

Spells just for mending bones.

 

Spells just to stop bleeding, counter shock, stabilize the patient.

 

Spells to regrow a severed limb - which I think must reasonably include noses, and fingers, and ears.

 

"Graduated" spells - say, a Heal spell with "regrow limbs" adder, limited to small stuff like noses and ears and only if the missing part is there to be reattached; then a higher value one that allows regeneration even without the missing part; then a still higher value one that allows regeneration of arms and legs. A Healer starts with the most limited version, then spends XP to improve it.

 

House rules, perhaps limiting the effect of some things - say, that Regrow Limbs won't help an eye, UNLESS it's specifically bought to do so....perhaps the same for internal organs, or make that still another adder, or an even more expensive one.

 

Slow poison - Suppress vs. poison effects.

Cure poison - Dispel vs. poison effects.

Can be bought at different power levels too - add dice of effect as you add XP.

 

Slow disease - Suppress vs. disease effects

Cure disease - Dispel vs. poison effects.

Can be bought at different power levels too - add dice of effect as you add XP.

 

Diagnosis - Detect Disease or Injury. Again, scalable; you can add Discriminatory and Analyze as you grow. Or, diversifiable; you can make different Detects for disease, poison, injury, magickal curses or mental tampering.....

 

Cure Fatigue - Heal vs. END

 

Assist Recovery - Long term Aid to REC.

 

 

This is really just a special case of an often-heard complaint about Hero; that it's too "generic." It's actually quite customizable, but the trick is, someone has to do the work to customize it.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Detect Palindromedary

[Maceano]

Re: If Healing was a flavor: HERO = Vanilla

 

as well as transform body being bought off with healing

[Killer Shrike]

Re: If Healing was a flavor: HERO = Vanilla

 

This is a supers character, but it shows a few different ways to use the SFX of Healing:

 

http://www.killershrike.com/MillennialMen/CharacterFiles/NPCs/Glow.HTML

 

 

This Package uses a specific Magic System of mine, but it might be mineable:

 

http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/Content/PackageDeals/CompositePackages/MysticHealer.shtml

 

Similarly this Package uses a different Magic System of mine but might be useful:

 

http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/Content/PackageDeals/CompositePackages/Samaritan.shtml

[keithcurtis]

Re: If Healing was a flavor: HERO = Vanilla

 

Here's what I use for Savage Earth. It's a little (OK, a lot) campaign specific, but feel free to poke around for anything you find interesting.

 

Keith "Doctor, Doctor, gimme the news" Curtis

[Shike019]

Re: If Healing was a flavor: HERO = Vanilla

 

This seems a likely consideration...

I'm also getting the feeling that I am over complicating the system

 

I would have to both agree and disagree, you are thinking of making hero in terms of RoleMaster, instead of Hero interms of Hero. Like you I came from a different RPG background (for me d20) and when I first looked at the book I was overwhelmed by the system, I eventually understood that it was NOT because of the mechanics, thats the easy part, it was the broadness and custamizablity of the powers, skills, etc.

 

If you take hero in hero terms I think you will begin to better understand how to use it better.

 

Also the hero system takes a lot of creativity, sometimes, to create the game effect you are looking for in a power/spell.

[Curufea]

Re: If Healing was a flavor: HERO = Vanilla

 

Yes the Hero system is abstract and simplified - but it gives the tools with which you can easily add details and realism to flesh out a world and actually give it colour.

 

I have played rolemaster, and was always impressed that their magic system actually covered NON-COMBAT areas. Which I've always thought would be the major use of magic in any fantasy setting. Farming spells and midwifery spells.

 

In Hero - it's just a matter of defining the limits, and making sure your players adhere to them.

[ghost-angel]

Re: If Healing was a flavor: HERO = Vanilla

 

Personally I think this is overthought. Indeed one of the problems I had with Rolemaster was that it went to such extrutiantingly stupid detail in this area. Too much to track to keep it quick and fun.

 

I would, if you need to emulate that kind of detail, simply apply Limitations to the base Healing Power to describe what it heals (Arms, Slash Wounds, et cetera).

[Robyn]

Re: If Healing was a flavor: HERO = Vanilla

 

Healing is left broad for a reason' date=' so that the player can define his power as he sees fit.[/quote']

 

I agree, and the same goes for the other mechanics. If the system were more specific it would be catering to the people who have very specific ideas about what a power should do, and would be more of a limited-to-type-of-game ruleset than "truly universal" (for every player and GM out there, no matter what they need* statted out).

 

*Not to imply that what HERO stats out are the things you need to be statted out. You could just find the existence of rules for something more helpful than the roleplaying of it alone, which is basically what I assumed upon realizing that converting my game to HERO would require taking much of what existed as roleplaying and needed no dice or numbers, and finding a way to give them numbers and let them use dice without making it all worse.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: If Healing was a flavor: HERO = Vanilla

 

Oh, right. Yeah, this happens sometimes. I'll give my take on this.

 

1. Mayapuppies, don't forget that in Hero, you CAN sort out damage by 'wound' - that's a big step in the right direction. You can keep track of individual wounds across targets.

 

2. Second, there are already impairment/disabling rules. Its Hero - you can make it as deep & gritty as you want. If you want individual wounds that limit people's effectiveness,

 

3. If you want healing spells to be more 'interesting' you simply limit them as necessary; arm mending, sucking chest wounds, and so on. Further, if you think about it, nothing is more bland than d20 healing.

[steph]

Re: If Healing was a flavor: HERO = Vanilla

 

i hope that gonna be clear ..........i very like to mix rolemaster and hero especialy for the magic system.........what i use for healing is.........i split the kind of damage in two...........the first is the surface damage who can be healed with a normal healing(body and stun................the second is the damage done on the imparment and disabling list(we call it critical hit) the gm got the final words of the wound(what is damaged) a muscle damage have to be heal with a healing str........a organ damage have to be heal with a healing con) a bones and tendons damage have to be heal with healing dex etc etc...........

stef hope i am clear english not my first laguage