Fantasy Hero Problems and advantages

[Curufea]

Re: Fantasy Hero Problems and advantages

 

I can only really do plot seeds, generic adventures and the occasional 3D artwork. I'm not very well versed in the Turakian Age. While I have the book, I've never used it.

 

Yes, I do want to contribute as well in other words

 

Except for one thing-

As a professional product that is published and makes money, I don't want to be part of a contract. It is just far too much of a hassle creating international contracts. So I'll just contribute for the attribution fame, rather than the meagre amounts of money it would ever earn.

[War Cry]

Re: Fantasy Hero Problems and advantages

 

Fired off my e-mail.

 

Hopefully, I will not dissapoint anyone. Some weeks I have tons of free time and others weeks, very little to none.

 

Curufea, I seemed to have lost/deleted my password to the Hero Wiki, along with any and all other relevant information. Will I need a new account for this project or just a new pw?

[Curufea]

Re: Fantasy Hero Problems and advantages

 

Just new password - you should be able to request a new password.

 

Unfortunately because the passwords are encoded, I can't find out what they are.

 

I can change them for you, however - if you email me (email is on the wiki).

[Nolgroth]

Re: Fantasy Hero Problems and advantages

 

Von-D Man,

 

Working on that project for you. In the meantime here is a little bit more information if you haven't already found it.

 

http://www.herogames.com/FreeStuff/freedocs/Encyclopaedia%20Turakiana.pdf

[Vondy]

Re: Fantasy Hero Problems and advantages

 

/snip

 

Except for one thing-

As a professional product that is published and makes money, I don't want to be part of a contract. It is just far too much of a hassle creating international contracts. So I'll just contribute for the attribution fame, rather than the meagre amounts of money it would ever earn.

 

Great!

 

And I agree about the contract issue. There's little money in the industry, and splitting it 6+ ways would be pointless. I lean towards strict fanon with an official nod, which hero can put up on its website as a free resource, and use at cons as swag. If hero were to want to publish some of our work as a PDF (USD 3-8), we would all have to agree that we were doing it for the cost of the art budget and the satisfaction of "we did that!" I don't see any profit it in, just a way to push hero's fantasy line - and our favorite system - by giving it some support.

[Vondy]

Re: Fantasy Hero Problems and advantages

 

Fired off my e-mail.

 

Hopefully, I will not dissapoint anyone. Some weeks I have tons of free time and others weeks, very little to none.

 

Curufea, I seemed to have lost/deleted my password to the Hero Wiki, along with any and all other relevant information. Will I need a new account for this project or just a new pw?

 

Don't sweat it. We aren't a business and our "deadlines" will be amorphous.

[Vondy]

Re: Fantasy Hero Problems and advantages

 

Just new password - you should be able to request a new password.

 

Unfortunately because the passwords are encoded, I can't find out what they are.

 

I can change them for you, however - if you email me (email is on the wiki).

 

I had a user name and password once. Memory... memory... memory... will mail you.

[Nolgroth]

Re: Fantasy Hero Problems and advantages

 

Great!

 

And I agree about the contract issue. There's little money in the industry, and splitting it 6+ ways would be pointless. I lean towards strict fanon with an official nod, which hero can put up on its website as a free resource, and use at cons as swag. If hero were to want to publish some of our work as a PDF (USD 3-8), we would all have to agree that we were doing it for the cost of the art budget and the satisfaction of "we did that!" I don't see any profit it in, just a way to push hero's fantasy line - and our favorite system - by giving it some support.

I ain't looking for money. Just for the fun and the "I did that" thing myself.

[Diamond Spear]

Re: Fantasy Hero Problems and advantages

 

I agree. The little money that would be involved isn’t really worth it. If, however, we have any aspiring authors among us having a “published work” credit can be very valuble.

[Curufea]

Re: Fantasy Hero Problems and advantages

 

I do have friends that created a collaborative publishing company for speculative fiction - one of (if not the) first international publishing companies (ie it's a single company that is spread over more than one country)

http://www.andromedaspaceways.com

 

I will be seeking their advice

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: Fantasy Hero Problems and advantages

 

I might want in on this thing as well. I've got tons of ideas, and not enough time/players to ever use them all. It would be nice to see them actually get used in some capacity.

 

Just to clarify: Are we talking about general FH material (settings, adventures, etc.)? Or are we talking about material specific to the Turakian Age setting?

[War Cry]

Re: Fantasy Hero Problems and advantages

 

Don't sweat it. We aren't a business and our "deadlines" will be amorphous.

 

Wait a minute - you mean I don't get an intern lackey to push around or a hot young secretary to, uh, um, inspire my creativity?

 

THATS IT! I'M OUTA HERE!

 

 

 

 

It's all good. This should be fun.

[Curufea]

Re: Fantasy Hero Problems and advantages

 

I might want in on this thing as well. I've got tons of ideas, and not enough time/players to ever use them all. It would be nice to see them actually get used in some capacity.

 

Just to clarify: Are we talking about general FH material (settings, adventures, etc.)? Or are we talking about material specific to the Turakian Age setting?

 

I'm thinking both - because I use a custom setting almost exclusively.

 

I would like to propose that the module(s) (or perhaps editions of supplements for Fantasy Hero) should be broken into three sections - Turakian Age, Valdorian Age, Other.

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: Fantasy Hero Problems and advantages

 

And if I may, thoughts on the original post:

 

Problems

1. Too much work to create a game world to play in and not a sufficiently fleshed out "Classic" official High Fantasy world to play in.

How fleshed out do you really need the world to be in order to play the game? I played D&D for years and never really cared or even thought much about all the little nuances of the world. If the players are engaged in their adventure, they don't care who the king of some other kingdom on another continent is.

 

2. Magic system that never quite fits precisely into the rules, if you want a standard D20 conversion, and no good way to classify/categorize spells. First levels spells from d20 costs all over the map in their HERO system iteration.

You mean that the D&D magic system doesn't fit precisely into the rules. Well, HERO doesn't fit precisely into D&D, either.

 

3. Need to place hard caps or to use aggressive cost doubling on skill levels to prevent PC's from having a +20 OCV modifier.

Assuming a fairly standard 75+75 FH game, +20 OCV requires 40 points - nearly a third of the character's total. It's the easiest thing in the world to stop a player who uses such a "all eggs in one basket" strategy. So he's got +20 with his sword. A simple Disarm maneuver removes his entire offensive capability. Some monsters, like the slimes and incorporials won't be affected by his sword. etc. Such players are practically begging to be defeated.

 

4. No more than double killing damage for weapons meaning that you do more damage with bare strength than you can with a longsword at relatively modest strength levels. But a Perk (Might Blow or something) at 10pts adds 1d6 killing to the base damage of the weapn. Meaning, 20 points buys you a dirk which does more base damage than a sword, and doubles its damage at a much lower strength level.

What Ghost-Angel said.

 

5. Much harder for new player to make a character than in a level based system.

Depends on the goal. Is the goal to just make "a" character? Or is the goal to make "the" character that the player wants?

 

6. Very very few modules or ready made adventures available.

True, hence the further discussion. However, I think RPGers have become far too dependent on published adventure modules (and settings). D&D has created a generation of gamers with bad habits. GMs need to learn to rediscover their imaginations. Remember when you were a kid and played pretend games with your friends? Did you rely on published scenarios to play out?

You're in the village tavern, you hear screams from outside. You rush outside to see what's going on. A big monster (or a hoard of little monsters) is attacking the village. What do you do (being the heroes you are)?

 

7. Package deals do not include powers typically associated with a "character class" (e.g., no ability to turn undead for clerics, and no good way to build it to mimic d20, if you wanted to).

Another "It's not like D&D, and I fear change" complaint. Classes? We don't need no stinking classes!

 

Good Stuff

 

4. No thousand-customized-prestige-classes to buy, learn, or memorize. Reading a character sheet is all that is required, no looking thru 40 supplements to find an obscure Prestige class.

One of the best results is far less $ needs to be spent. Sometimes I scan the D&D shelves of my FLGS just to see how much money I'm saving by playing HERO!

[SCUBA Hero]

Re: Fantasy Hero Problems and advantages

 

Turakian Age Resource Team?

 

This fanon product brought to you by The Tart!

And so, PAID In Full morphs into The TART...

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Vondy]

Re: Fantasy Hero Problems and advantages

 

I might want in on this thing as well. I've got tons of ideas, and not enough time/players to ever use them all. It would be nice to see them actually get used in some capacity.

 

Just to clarify: Are we talking about general FH material (settings, adventures, etc.)? Or are we talking about material specific to the Turakian Age setting?

 

We're still talking about that. I lean towards a more general type of material, but we'll see where the group wants to go with it.

[Vondy]

Re: Fantasy Hero Problems and advantages

 

And so, PAID In Full morphs into The TART...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mwahahahahaha!!!!

[Savinien]

Re: Fantasy Hero Problems and advantages

 

I sent an email again with the address provided here as I wasn't aware of the needed subject line with the previous one.

[Markdoc]

Re: Fantasy Hero Problems and advantages

 

We're still talking about that. I lean towards a more general type of material' date=' but we'll see where the group wants to go with it.[/quote']

 

As a do-it-yourselfer, I prefer (and would be happy to supply) generic fantasy material, but if the aim is to support Hero games - and hopefully get some sort of imprimatur - then material specifically tailored to a setting might be the way to go.

 

A GM (or more likely, would-be GM) who has just brought Turakian age is faced with a description and a big - but not terribly detailed - map of the world and a general, but again, not terribly-detailed description of various areas. He, she or it would probably be happy to get an adventure with a map of the city of Atleet's Fute and the nearby Fungal Forest, plus a note of where on the big Turakian map it lies - plus the adventure, suggested character types/levels and some NPCs. That gives an easy entry into the game.

 

The same GM who has just bought Valdorian Age actually *has* a detailed setting - for him, you're more likely looking at floorplans - plus the adventure and some NPCs to give the same sort of entry. You could, of course, tackle some of the undetailed areas of the Valdorian world, but it's not a necessity like it is for the Turakian.

 

And the many of the characters designed for the Turakian setting would be a poor match for the Valdorian setting and vicey versey. This is particularly true for magic use and magic-users, which is by far the most time-consuming part of character and scenario generation as far as I am concerned.

 

So ... from someone currently uninvolved , I'd suggest a structure along the lines of those currently suggested:

 

Setting: Turakian/Valdorian/Tuala Morn/Other

and under each, subheadings

Characters (or NPCs)/Bestiary/Items/Locations/Adventures

The first three are self explanatory (I hope), the third is filler material that can be stitched into ongoing adventures (an inn, a dungeon, an abandoned keep, a neighbourhood in an established town, all of the foregoing hopefully plus inhabitants) while the last should also be self-explanantory.

 

cheers, Mark

[Midas]

Re: Fantasy Hero Problems and advantages

 

Problems

 

2. Magic system that never quite fits precisely into the rules, if you want a standard D20 conversion, and no good way to classify/categorize spells. First levels spells from d20 costs all over the map in their HERO system iteration.

 

 

 

To me there are two ways of looking at this point, which is the one that has caused most of the discussion of this thread.

 

either you are saying

1) The magic system isn't DnD.

or

2) As compared to DnD, Hero magicians are much harder to write up.

 

DnD player: "I want to run a magician."

GM: "Fine, four sided hit dice, no armor, one spell per day."

 

FH: player: "I want to run a magician."

GM: "OK, um...what kind? What spells do you think you should have? Do you want them with a no armor limitation?" etc.

 

I take the meaning to be the later, and I agree.

 

1st edition FH was Champions lite: "A fireball? OK, 6d6eb, 6 END." It most reminded me of Pendragon or Chivalry and Sorcery, a generic mideval setting, without the "knightly virtues" of Pendragon, or "No one gave you permission to think" tone of C&S. But that's it: You wanted a spell or magic item, the player or ref designed it, viola!.

 

As I recall the first scenario: "OK, you've been hired by Baron A to foil a plot by Baron B. BTW, did I mention that Baron B is an evil sorceror?"

 

 

2nd Ed went with the Western Shores campaign, something like Warhammer Fantasy without the griminess. Magic was divided into "colleges" where spells were grouped by a commen element (College of Mentalism, College of Animal Control...) sort of an obverse to the straightjacket of DnD magery: DnD, you got unrelated spells assigned by level. 2E FH you get spells assigned by element.

 

GM: OK, your arch enemy uses his knowledge of Air magic to fly away.

PC: Hey, I'm college of Animal Magic! I have to turn into a bird first! How does he do that?

GM: It's an Air magic thing.

 

The current edition is some better. The book lists twelve potential backgrounds for magic campaigns, but they are half way sketches. The problem is that the ref doesn't know quite what to do with things. Take for example the Highlander inspired "Chaos Blades" setting. "You're born with magic. You may take a bunch of rivalries and hunteds, and the psy limit "hunting." Your powers are intrinsic, no foci. Have fun."

 

The problem is, the more you develop a campaign, the harder it is to fit into someone else's pre existing world. Chaos Blades in a good example. Suppose the adventure is a standard dungeon crawl. The designer stocks it with plenty of goodies in the loot pile: A magic sword and armor, a ring, a chemeleon cloak, and a few scrolls. All well and good, right? But remember in Chaos Blades, there are no magic foci. The best you can get is an outstanding example of smithcraft: like a master worked sword. The rest of the goodies have to be replaced by something useful, but not magical. The ring might be a signet ring, the scrolls important letters or contracts, the cloak...um...a ninja suit?

 

I don't know the answer either, just asking the question.

 

Midas

[Old Man]

Re: Fantasy Hero Problems and advantages

 

The problem is, the more you develop a campaign, the harder it is to fit into someone else's pre existing world. Chaos Blades in a good example. Suppose the adventure is a standard dungeon crawl.

 

That's always an issue, but it's much less work to make those changes than to come up with a detailed scenario from scratch.

 

The other thing I was thinking about is that published adventures give the added value of shared experience. Look at the D&D adventure nostalgia thread in the General Roleplaying forum--all us Hero gamers trading stories about how we got through Tomb of Horrors or the G1-3 Giants series. And we trade stories, too, about Island of Dr. Destroyer. Why can't Fantasy Hero have this?

[AnotherSkip]

Re: Fantasy Hero Problems and advantages

 

7. Package deals do not include powers typically associated with a "character class" (e.g., no ability to turn undead for clerics, and no good way to build it to mimic d20, if you wanted to).

 

 

Two problems with this "problem" number one what if you want to play a priest in D&D w/out turning ability? Or run a world wherein priests cannot turn undead(many instances whenrin this occurs in fantasy)? now the GM or player or both is hosed.

 

And on the D&D line what if you dont like the spell list for AD&D? then what make your own w/out even knowing the rules behind the choices they made?

 

at least you can see alot of the (in D&D is behind the scenes) decisions for Hero.

 

number two having actually built a Turakurian Age priest I found the 60 points in spells or spell like abilities to be something I started having problems with. Eventually I ended up with 2 Deadly blows (only while doing the work of my god, 14 pts) and 21 points in turn undead (which gave me 110 Pre. to turn undead whihc means on an average I rolled 66... which means buh buhy greater Vampire on a freaking average !)

[teh bunneh]

Re: Fantasy Hero Problems and advantages

 

The problem is' date=' the more you develop a campaign, the harder it is to fit into someone else's pre existing world. Chaos Blades in a good example. Suppose the adventure is a standard dungeon crawl. The designer stocks it with plenty of goodies in the loot pile: A magic sword and armor, a ring, a chemeleon cloak, and a few scrolls. All well and good, right? But remember in Chaos Blades, there are no magic foci. The best you can get is an outstanding example of smithcraft: like a master worked sword. The rest of the goodies have to be replaced by something useful, but not magical. The ring might be a signet ring, the scrolls important letters or contracts, the cloak...um...a ninja suit?[/quote']

 

If you're playing in a campaign where the goal is to kill monsters and steal their magical shinies, you're correct -- Chaos Blades is inappropriate for the campaign. The GM has a responsibility to tell the player that that character concept is inappropriate for this game.

 

But not all fantasy games are standard dungeon crawls (and nor should they be).

[Curufea]

Re: Fantasy Hero Problems and advantages

 

The main problems it seems to be is "it's not like D&D".

The question is - if you want D&D, why aren't you playing D&D?

[Teflon Billy]

Re: Fantasy Hero Problems and advantages

 

The main problems it seems to be is "it's not like D&D".

The question is - if you want D&D, why aren't you playing D&D?

Because we don't like the system but want the genre.

 

D&D can be very easily considered it's own subgenre of Fantasy.

 

That includes its style of Magic which is pretty integral to how the D&D style fantasy genre operates.

 

TB