Fantasy Hero Problems and advantages

[atlascott]

Problems

 

1. Too much work to create a game world to play in and not a sufficiently fleshed out "Classic" official High Fantasy world to play in.

 

2. Magic system that never quite fits precisely into the rules, if you want a standard D20 conversion, and no good way to classify/categorize spells. First levels spells from d20 costs all over the map in their HERO system iteration.

 

3. Need to place hard caps or to use aggressive cost doubling on skill levels to prevent PC's from having a +20 OCV modifier.

 

4. No more than double killing damage for weapons meaning that you do more damage with bare strength than you can with a longsword at relatively modest strength levels. But a Perk (Might Blow or something) at 10pts adds 1d6 killing to the base damage of the weapn. Meaning, 20 points buys you a dirk which does more base damage than a sword, and doubles its damage at a much lower strength level.

 

5. Much harder for new player to make a character than in a level based system.

 

6. Very very few modules or ready made adventures available.

 

7. Package deals do not include powers typically associated with a "character class" (e.g., no ability to turn undead for clerics, and no good way to build it to mimic d20, if you wanted to).

 

Good Stuff

 

1. Utter character flexibility for the experienced gamer ( the flip side to it being tough for a newb).

 

2. Easy for GM to gauge power levels based on point system.

 

3. More linear character progression means it is easier to adjust challenge of a scenario--no one doubles effectiveness from scenario to scenario (the bane of d20, imo).

 

4. No thousand-customized-prestige-classes to buy, learn, or memorize. Reading a character sheet is all that is required, no looking thru 40 supplements to find an obscure Prestige class.

 

5. Most creatures, powers, abilities, are easily built or even run off the cuff by an experienced Hero system GM.

 

6. If someone gets bored by their build, it is very, very easy to allow somone to rebuild their character into something else using the same point total. For example, a snow elf assassin mage was bored with magic, and wanted to get more proficient in fighting, so he was stripped of his magic due to a planned in game event. No question about his power level as a fighter-assasin, bc we already know how many build points he has.

 

7. Easy for an experienced Hero GM to mod any fantasy themed scenario using the hero system--beforehand or on the fly.

[teh bunneh]

Re: Fantasy Hero Problems and advantages

 

1. Too much work to create a game world to play in and not a sufficiently fleshed out "Classic" official High Fantasy world to play in.

 

2. Magic system that never quite fits precisely into the rules, if you want a standard D20 conversion, and no good way to classify/categorize spells. First levels spells from d20 costs all over the map in their HERO system iteration.

 

5. Much harder for new player to make a character than in a level based system.

 

7. Package deals do not include powers typically associated with a "character class" (e.g., no ability to turn undead for clerics, and no good way to build it to mimic d20, if you wanted to).

 

These all seem to boil down to "It's not D&D." If you don't want to play D&D, these aren't problems. If you do want to play D&D, just play D&D.

 

3. Need to place hard caps or to use aggressive cost doubling on skill levels to prevent PC's from having a +20 OCV modifier.

 

Not sure why putting caps on power levels is considered a problem. "No CV higher than X" is pretty standard for nearly every type of campaign.

 

6. Very very few modules or ready made adventures available.

 

I agree with this one. Unfortunately, simple economics means it's hard for a company like DOJ (which is in business to make money) to actually make money on modules these days.

[Chris Henry]

Re: Fantasy Hero Problems and advantages

 

 

1. Too much work to create a game world to play in and not a sufficiently fleshed out "Classic" official High Fantasy world to play in.

 

 

Turakian Age seems sufficiently fleshed out to me. I know a few D&D players who use it in fact.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Fantasy Hero Problems and advantages

 

Problems

 

1. Too much work to create a game world to play in and not a sufficiently fleshed out "Classic" official High Fantasy world to play in.

 

Turakian Age is just such a setting.

 

I'm glad that was left out of the Genre Book because you're describing a setting not a genre.

 

2. Magic system that never quite fits precisely into the rules' date=' if you want a standard D20 conversion, and no good way to classify/categorize spells. First levels spells from d20 costs all over the map in their HERO system iteration.[/quote']

 

That's a D20 problem, not a Hero problem.

Hero Magic fits into the Hero Rules quite nicely. Whichever flavor you're using.

 

3. Need to place hard caps or to use aggressive cost doubling on skill levels to prevent PC's from having a +20 OCV modifier.

 

Like just about every genre/campaign/Hero Game in existence. Non-Issue.

 

4. No more than double killing damage for weapons meaning that you do more damage with bare strength than you can with a longsword at relatively modest strength levels. But a Perk (Might Blow or something) at 10pts adds 1d6 killing to the base damage of the weapn. Meaning' date=' 20 points buys you a dirk which does more base damage than a sword, and doubles its damage at a much lower strength level.[/quote']

 

er what?

15STR = 3D6 Normal (3 Damage Classes). 15STR + Sword = 1D6+1 Killing Damage (4 Damage Classes). That's a fairly decent gap, favoring the Sword.

Fist: average BODY = 3; Sword: average BODY = 4

Fist: Everyone has defenses against it (average BODY done to normal person: 1); Sword: Unless you're in armor you have no defenses against it (average BODY done to normal person: 4).

In a simple padded leather vest (2 DEF): Fist - 0 BODY done; Sword - 2 BODY done.

you have a lot higher chance of hurting someone with a sword than your unarmed fist.

As for 20pts of Mighty Blow, don't let them buy it twice? seriously.

 

5. Much harder for new player to make a character than in a level based system.

 

Ok, I can concede that point. But the advantage is choice.

 

6. Very very few modules or ready made adventures available.

 

yeah, that does kinda suck.

 

7. Package deals do not include powers typically associated with a "character class" (e.g.' date=' no ability to turn undead for clerics, and no good way to build it to mimic d20, if you wanted to).[/quote']

 

Turn Undead is not a feature of every setting of Fantasy. If you want it I suggest:

Fantasy Hero p55 (Priest Professional Deals discussion) suggests adding it if it's a feature (detailed: Fantasy Hero p107-108)

or

Turakian Age p177 - Priest Package Deal, first item listed. (because it's a feature of that Setting)

 

Good Stuff

 

1. Utter character flexibility for the experienced gamer ( the flip side to it being tough for a newb).

 

ayup. Sometimes the freedom of choice is a bit overwhelming even to an experience Herophile.

 

2. Easy for GM to gauge power levels based on point system.

 

Not that easy, but easy enough for an experienced GM.

 

3. More linear character progression means it is easier to adjust challenge of a scenario--no one doubles effectiveness from scenario to scenario (the bane of d20' date=' imo).[/quote']

 

Very true in my experience.

 

4. No thousand-customized-prestige-classes to buy' date=' learn, or memorize. Reading a character sheet is all that is required, no looking thru 40 supplements to find an obscure Prestige class.[/quote']

 

ah, universal system happiness.

 

5. Most creatures, powers, abilities, are easily built or even run off the cuff by an experienced Hero system GM.

 

6. If someone gets bored by their build, it is very, very easy to allow somone to rebuild their character into something else using the same point total. For example, a snow elf assassin mage was bored with magic, and wanted to get more proficient in fighting, so he was stripped of his magic due to a planned in game event. No question about his power level as a fighter-assasin, bc we already know how many build points he has.

 

7. Easy for an experienced Hero GM to mod any fantasy themed scenario using the hero system--beforehand or on the fly.

 

The more experienced the GM the easier the above three items become.

[Lucius]

Re: Fantasy Hero Problems and advantages

 

Problems

2. Magic system that never quite fits precisely into the rules, if you want a standard D20 conversion, and no good way to classify/categorize spells. First levels spells from d20 costs all over the map in their HERO system iteration.

 

Not a problem. Or rather, if there's a problem, it's with D&D not with Hero.

 

4. No more than double killing damage for weapons meaning that you do more damage with bare strength than you can with a longsword at relatively modest strength levels. But a Perk (Might Blow or something) at 10pts adds 1d6 killing to the base damage of the weapn. Meaning, 20 points buys you a dirk which does more base damage than a sword, and doubles its damage at a much lower strength level.

 

Might be a problem, but I think you're overstating it.

 

 

7. Package deals do not include powers typically associated with a "character class" (e.g., no ability to turn undead for clerics, and no good way to build it to mimic d20, if you wanted to)..

 

Hm....might be a problem, although it depends. To take your example, I've just always assumed

 

1. "Priest" is a Profession skill based on PRE, and can be used to add to PRE attacks in appropriate circumstances,

 

2. Trying to "Turn Undead" is an "appropriate circumstance" and for this kind of character a PRE attack is allowed even against automata, who would ordinarily not be subject to them. Note that this applies regardless of "alignment:" an "evil" priest can convince undead to join him, a "good" one drives them off. Both use a PRE attack.

 

If you feel it's needed, extra PRE with limits (only vs undead) can be bought, and even with advantages (does knockback, does BODy, etc.)

 

I'm not sure what other "powers associated with character class" you have in mind, but they're probably not that much more challenging to mimic.

 

5. Most creatures, powers, abilities, are easily built or even run off the cuff by an experienced Hero system GM.

 

"Most" but not all, yes. But this being so, why do you think something like turning undead is a problem?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Turn Palindromedary!

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Fantasy Hero Problems and advantages

 

Problems

 

1. Too much work to create a game world to play in and not a sufficiently fleshed out "Classic" official High Fantasy world to play in.

 

Buy a pre-exiosting setting then, just as you would in D&D.

 

2. Magic system that never quite fits precisely into the rules' date=' if you want a standard D20 conversion, and no good way to classify/categorize spells. First levels spells from d20 costs all over the map in their HERO system iteration.[/quote']

 

I've already repped Bill for saying it before I could. If you're happy with a specific game system, why not play that system rather than try to shoehorn it into a different system?

 

3. Need to place hard caps or to use aggressive cost doubling on skill levels to prevent PC's from having a +20 OCV modifier.

 

This is an aspect of the point system - overspending is pretty easy. However, spending 40 points on OCV bonuses means 40 points unavailable for spending elsewhere, and all it means is you seldom miss.

 

4. No more than double killing damage for weapons meaning that you do more damage with bare strength than you can with a longsword at relatively modest strength levels. But a Perk (Might Blow or something) at 10pts adds 1d6 killing to the base damage of the weapn. Meaning' date=' 20 points buys you a dirk which does more base damage than a sword, and doubles its damage at a much lower strength level.[/quote']

 

Others have already addressed this mechanical issue. If you find the doubled damage at STR 25 being capped at too low a level, maybe you need to make some adjustments for your fairly mythic-level game.

 

5. Much harder for new player to make a character than in a level based system.

 

Some of this comes from choice, but much from lack of familiarity. I used Hero 5er and FH to make my FH character, and I didn't look at FH much. How many books must I skim to find all the feats (JUST feats) I may want to choose for a D&D character? I'm working up an L3 cleric, and been through HB, PHB II, Complete Divine and at least a couple of other books - and that's only "official rules".

 

6. Very very few modules or ready made adventures available.

 

True of almost any system these days, alas. I miss the days when the shelves were packed with scenarios to use the character's abilities, rather than sourcebooks to grant yet more (and often more unbalanced) choices of such abilities.

 

7. Package deals do not include powers typically associated with a "character class" (e.g.' date=' no ability to turn undead for clerics, and no good way to build it to mimic d20, if you wanted to).[/quote']

 

See reply to #2. FH has an adequate mimic, IMO.

 

Good Stuff

 

1. Utter character flexibility for the experienced gamer ( the flip side to it being tough for a newb).

 

Yup - as you said, a tradeoff.

 

2. Easy for GM to gauge power levels based on point system.

 

I'll challenge this one - I can build something pretty unbalanced if I set my mind to it. Not that the CR system in d20 is perfect by any stretch, though.

 

3. More linear character progression means it is easier to adjust challenge of a scenario--no one doubles effectiveness from scenario to scenario (the bane of d20' date=' imo).[/quote']

 

True, dat. To some extent, this offsets the scarcity of modules specifically designed for Hero - scenarios for any system are relatively easy to adapt.

 

4. No thousand-customized-prestige-classes to buy' date=' learn, or memorize. Reading a character sheet is all that is required, no looking thru 40 supplements to find an obscure Prestige class.[/quote']

 

See my dispute of your "easier to build a character in d20" theory.

 

5. Most creatures, powers, abilities, are easily built or even run off the cuff by an experienced Hero system GM.

 

6. If someone gets bored by their build, it is very, very easy to allow somone to rebuild their character into something else using the same point total. For example, a snow elf assassin mage was bored with magic, and wanted to get more proficient in fighting, so he was stripped of his magic due to a planned in game event. No question about his power level as a fighter-assasin, bc we already know how many build points he has.

 

7. Easy for an experienced Hero GM to mod any fantasy themed scenario using the hero system--beforehand or on the fly.

 

No arguments.

 

What about cost, BTW? Hero: Buy 5er, FH, Turakian Age, 2 creature books and 2 Grimoires and you're pretty much set.

 

D&D: Hmmm...PHB, DMG, PHB II, DMG II, MM, MM II, half a dozen splatbooks and we're nowehere near a complete set yet.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Fantasy Hero Problems and advantages

 

Mind you, often these boil down to:

 

Bad Stuff:

 

It's not D&D/d20.

 

Good Stuff:

 

It's not D&D/d20.

[Old Man]

Re: Fantasy Hero Problems and advantages

 

Problems

 

1. Too much work to create a game world to play in and not a sufficiently fleshed out "Classic" official High Fantasy world to play in.

 

Absolutely. I've been arguing since before 4th edition that FH needs a supply of ready-made settings and modules. Otherwise running a campaign is a hell of a lot of work.

 

2. Magic system that never quite fits precisely into the rules, if you want a standard D20 conversion, and no good way to classify/categorize spells. First levels spells from d20 costs all over the map in their HERO system iteration.

 

That's because d20 spells are hopelessly unbalanced at any level.

 

3. Need to place hard caps or to use aggressive cost doubling on skill levels to prevent PC's from having a +20 OCV modifier.

 

Yup. We pretty much had to ban 2pt. OCV levels. They'd be fine if we weren't playing with hit locations and crits. But we are.

 

4. No more than double killing damage for weapons meaning that you do more damage with bare strength than you can with a longsword at relatively modest strength levels. But a Perk (Might Blow or something) at 10pts adds 1d6 killing to the base damage of the weapn. Meaning, 20 points buys you a dirk which does more base damage than a sword, and doubles its damage at a much lower strength level.

 

The recent slew of perks in the latest edition of the game annoy me, and I find some of them to be unbalanced simply because they provide methods for heroic-level characters to evade heroic-level limitations on what they can do with their points.

 

5. Much harder for new player to make a character than in a level based system.

 

Yeah, Hero doesn't force you to play one of six possible character concepts. Complexity is the price we pay.

 

6. Very very few modules or ready made adventures available.

 

See 1.

 

7. Package deals do not include powers typically associated with a "character class" (e.g., no ability to turn undead for clerics, and no good way to build it to mimic d20, if you wanted to).

 

Rule 1 of Fantasy Hero is "character classes are bad." And turning undead is an incredibly broken power even in d20. Of course it adds up to 200+ active points in Hero.

 

Good Stuff

 

1. Utter character flexibility for the experienced gamer ( the flip side to it being tough for a newb).

 

Exactly.

 

2. Easy for GM to gauge power levels based on point system.

 

Easier, at least. Still, points are not perfectly equal even in Hero.

 

3. More linear character progression means it is easier to adjust challenge of a scenario--no one doubles effectiveness from scenario to scenario (the bane of d20, imo).

 

It's more linear, but character progression in FH still can pose problems. Especially if points are dumped into characteristics as the campaign continues.

 

4. No thousand-customized-prestige-classes to buy, learn, or memorize. Reading a character sheet is all that is required, no looking thru 40 supplements to find an obscure Prestige class.

 

Absolutely.

5. Most creatures, powers, abilities, are easily built or even run off the cuff by an experienced Hero system GM.

 

Really experienced, but yes. The problem is that there is little to help FH GMs get to that level.

 

6. If someone gets bored by their build, it is very, very easy to allow somone to rebuild their character into something else using the same point total. For example, a snow elf assassin mage was bored with magic, and wanted to get more proficient in fighting, so he was stripped of his magic due to a planned in game event. No question about his power level as a fighter-assasin, bc we already know how many build points he has.

 

Ah, the "rad accident". The only issue here is that from-scratch characters tend to be more efficiently built than one built with many sessions' worth of xp. But it is a minor problem.

 

7. Easy for an experienced Hero GM to mod any fantasy themed scenario using the hero system--beforehand or on the fly.

 

It is, and it isn't. It's easy to convert d20 scenarios statwise, for example, but it's very hard to strip out the d20 'flavor' that annoys me in the first place, like the prevalence of magic and magic items, alignment, and goofy D&D-dungeon-only creatures. Oh, and turning undead.

[keithcurtis]

Re: Fantasy Hero Problems and advantages

 

7. Package deals do not include powers typically associated with a "character class" (e.g.' date=' no ability to turn undead for clerics, and no good way to build it to mimic d20, if you wanted to).[/quote']

 

What they said, for most of the points. For this one, though, I'll just reiterate what I've sad many times before and make Undead take the Limitation, SUSC: 2x effect from priestly PRE attacks. Priests could buy extra PRE for the express purpose of Turning, if you desire, but it probably wouldn't be necessary.

 

Keith "simple is good" Curtis

[Vondy]

Re: Fantasy Hero Problems and advantages

 

Hero has always focused more on genre than setting. Some call it a bug, some call it a feature. I don't think its fair to say that someone who wants a fleshed out setting, or pregenerated resources, should go play D&D, et al. In fact, its one of the more unsettling and self-defeating undercurrents in our community of hardened Hero-philes. While focusing on genre has advantages for a certain kind of gamer, and Hero has traditionally attracted world-builders and natural-born-tweakers, it does leave a great deal of work to be done that a good many people simply don't want to do.

 

Even some Hero gamers want to get up and going right away, and want fleshed out pre-gen world with fully integrated, pre-built magic system. Indeed, it wasn't until 5th edition that Hero provided anything meaningful in the setting line, though they have still focused on generic genre support in terms of supplements, rather than setting specific support. The simple fact is that hero, in any incarnation, has never taken settings seriously. The 5th edition settings are the first nod to the notion, and are well done, but they don't provide the kind of support people are looking for - and that means hero limits itself to one kind of gamer (and I suspect the minority).

 

This is probably due to a desire to get all manner of genre books out there rather than supporting a few cash-cows (supers and fantasy) that could generate funds for everything else they want to do, and the nature of the extant fanbase, but to propose Hero is a setting-centric wonderland, which is what many people want with their system (or care about more than the system), is plainly living in denial. I think its a fair and accurate criticism.

[SCUBA Hero]

Re: Fantasy Hero Problems and advantages

 

Turn Palindromedary!

If you did Turn the Palindromedary, how would you know?

[ghost-angel]

Re: Fantasy Hero Problems and advantages

 

Even some Hero gamers want to get up and going right away' date=' and want fleshed out pre-gen world with fully integrated, pre-built magic system. Indeed, it wasn't until 5th edition that Hero provided anything meaningful in the setting line, though they have still focused on generic genre support in terms of supplements, rather than setting specific support. The simple fact is that hero, in any incarnation, has never taken settings seriously. The 5th edition settings are the first nod to the notion, and are well done, but they don't provide the kind of support people are looking for - and that means hero limits itself to one kind of gamer (and I suspect the minority). [/quote']

 

I'd like to take this moment to point out the Turakian Age Setting. And also that five of the ten Fantasy Hero products are specifically aimed at Turakian Age.

 

Tarakian Age (setting)

Fantasy Hero Grimoire I and II (Turakian Age magic system is the default for both books)

Fantasy Hero Battlegrounds (notes are made to place this directly into the Turakian Age Setting)

Nobles, Knights, And Necromancers (the default character histories/backgrounds are for the Turakian Age)

 

The only books not directly supporting TA are

Fantasy Hero (the genre book, still definitely useful for TA)

The Valdorian Age (another setting book, giving us two settings for FH)

Asian Bestiary I and II (and there's arguement that they even belong in this genre line, Darren Watts has said he wanted them as part of Ninja Hero).

 

So, over 50% of the Fantasy Hero line is aimed at, or directly useful for, a single complete Fantasy Setting.

 

The upcoming book Enchanted Items will ALSO be aimed at the Turakian Age Setting. (slated for release sometime in 2007, Steve said in his last chat, before christmas, that he had finished the outline for the book).

 

I would say, overall, that Fifth Edition is doing a pretty decent job of supporting a single setting for Fantasy Hero.

[Nolgroth]

Re: Fantasy Hero Problems and advantages

 

You know, a few years back I was going to try and create a common use website repository of fan created missions. To make a very long story short, I got distracted with a bunch of other things and it never saw the light of day.

 

Perhaps it is time to revive the idea. Maybe Curufea would let us add such a resource to his HERO Wiki. Even if it isn't officially published by HERO, a bunch of adventures with all the pre-made goodness should be cool. Just don't ask me to map them out.

[Curufea]

Re: Fantasy Hero Problems and advantages

 

Hmm, I hear my name mentioned and am summoned.....

 

You could put them here without too much trouble-

Plots and Adventures

[Nolgroth]

Re: Fantasy Hero Problems and advantages

 

Hmm, I hear my name mentioned and am summoned.....

 

You could put them here without too much trouble-

Plots and Adventures

See! I knew you would enthusiastically support the cause. Now, if the whole Rep thing would let me rep you again. Spread it around they say. I say spoilsports.

 

I suppose I should start working on something to contribute now. Look what I get myself into.

[Curufea]

Re: Fantasy Hero Problems and advantages

 

[Old Man]

Re: Fantasy Hero Problems and advantages

 

So, over 50% of the Fantasy Hero line is aimed at, or directly useful for, a single complete Fantasy Setting.

 

And yet it is still not possible to sit down and begin running a TA campaign with all this pregenerated material, because practically none of it is in the form of scenarios. This continues the time-honored Hero Games strategy of catering to established Fantasy Hero gamers while doing nothing to make it easy for newcomers. Meanwhile dozens of published adventures exist for that other genre.

[Teflon Billy]

Re: Fantasy Hero Problems and advantages

 

And yet it is still not possible to sit down and begin running a TA campaign with all this pregenerated material' date=' because practically none of it is in the form of scenarios. This continues the time-honored Hero Games strategy of catering to established Fantasy Hero gamers while doing nothing to make it easy for newcomers. Meanwhile dozens of published adventures exist for that other genre.[/quote']

Scenarios?

 

You're party meets in the local pub, looks on bulletin board finds notice for Caravan hiring heroes, viola, 2-3 sessions of caravan protecting fantasy fun.

 

I always made up my own stuff. Not really that hard.

 

Now, if you wanted to harp on FH not having enough monsters to draw upon for random encounters, then I'd agree with you.

 

Too many books filled with anthropomorphic character races masquerading as monsters and not enough non-sentient beasties.

 

TB

[Nolgroth]

Re: Fantasy Hero Problems and advantages

 

I think my biggest "problem" with Turakian Age is that it deals more with breadth than depth. One the plus side, it lets the perspective GM detail the world to his heart's content. The big negative being that there is no effective "designers bible" for creating content for the world. Perhaps intentionally done?

[Vondy]

Re: Fantasy Hero Problems and advantages

 

I'd like to take this moment to point out the Turakian Age Setting. And also that five of the ten Fantasy Hero products are specifically aimed at Turakian Age.

 

Tarakian Age (setting)

Fantasy Hero Grimoire I and II (Turakian Age magic system is the default for both books)

Fantasy Hero Battlegrounds (notes are made to place this directly into the Turakian Age Setting)

Nobles, Knights, And Necromancers (the default character histories/backgrounds are for the Turakian Age)

 

The only books not directly supporting TA are

Fantasy Hero (the genre book, still definitely useful for TA)

The Valdorian Age (another setting book, giving us two settings for FH)

Asian Bestiary I and II (and there's arguement that they even belong in this genre line, Darren Watts has said he wanted them as part of Ninja Hero).

 

So, over 50% of the Fantasy Hero line is aimed at, or directly useful for, a single complete Fantasy Setting.

 

The upcoming book Enchanted Items will ALSO be aimed at the Turakian Age Setting. (slated for release sometime in 2007, Steve said in his last chat, before christmas, that he had finished the outline for the book).

 

I would say, overall, that Fifth Edition is doing a pretty decent job of supporting a single setting for Fantasy Hero.

 

Its a far cry better than what was before, but its not what people are looking for in setting support. As Nolgroth notes, its pretty general. You've got a lot of spells, a handful of battle ground maps, and some NPCs. That's an improvement, but people want all those kingdoms and cities, and any organizations and cults mentioned, fully detailed - and its proven they'll put solid money down on the table to get that detail. Its a cash cow for other projects. And the killer is, if you don't provide that detail most people will go looking for a setting that will provide it irrespective of the system attached. So much so that, even if they use hero as a system, they may well convert that other setting because its fleshed out. So no, I don't accept the assertion that the setting is well supported from a consumer point of view. This doesn't mean the setting is bad (I think its a strong start), it just means that no matter how good the opening broadside for the line is, it won't serve to open the floodgates of hero to the parched gaming masses, and won't turn into a cash cow to fuel other projects. And I want Hero to have that cow. On the other hand, Steve only has so many hands to type with. Based on priorities it would probably take an additional writer.

[Diamond Spear]

Re: Fantasy Hero Problems and advantages

 

See! I knew you would enthusiastically support the cause. Now, if the whole Rep thing would let me rep you again. Spread it around they say. I say spoilsports.

 

I suppose I should start working on something to contribute now. Look what I get myself into.

 

I got him for you.

[Old Man]

Re: Fantasy Hero Problems and advantages

 

Scenarios?

 

You're party meets in the local pub, looks on bulletin board finds notice for Caravan hiring heroes, viola, 2-3 sessions of caravan protecting fantasy fun.

 

I always made up my own stuff. Not really that hard.

 

But you already know what you're doing. What if you were an FH newb who'd only played d20 or, worse, never played pencil and paper RPGs before? You want the new GM to have to make up the scenario and stat out all the bad guys and learn the Hero combat system? That's a pretty steep curve, one that really impacts future sales.

[Nolgroth]

Re: Fantasy Hero Problems and advantages

 

I got him for you.

Thanks.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Fantasy Hero Problems and advantages

 

Scenarios?

 

You're party meets in the local pub, looks on bulletin board finds notice for Caravan hiring heroes, viola, 2-3 sessions of caravan protecting fantasy fun.

 

I always made up my own stuff. Not really that hard.

 

Now, if you wanted to harp on FH not having enough monsters to draw upon for random encounters, then I'd agree with you.

 

Too many books filled with anthropomorphic character races masquerading as monsters and not enough non-sentient beasties.

 

TB

 

This is really Von D-Man's point, though. You're the kind of gamer who is able and willing to whip up scenarios, and more power to you. There are lots of others who aren't. They may or may not make up the majority, but they're out there in numbers. And even if you thought they are somehow "less" because they're not prepared to make up their own stuff, they still have money to spend on game books.

 

The thing about Hero Games adventure books is that according to the company, they haven't sold well enough to justify publishing more. Personally I'd love to see a line of Hero Plus Adventures for fantasy along the lines of what Steve Long did for pulp, but drawing on the Turakian Age setting.

[Bismark]

Re: Fantasy Hero Problems and advantages

 

Good point well made, Von D-Man!

 

Well folks, we as the HERO community have the talent to help DOJ support Turakian Age in a manner more in keeping with other, bigger publishers, but do we have the will (or the time for that matter?).

 

Where certain projects are not viable for DOJ to do on their own (the Celtic Bestiary was an example of this - though a chunk of it will be incorporated into Tuala Morn), maybe we could do a lot of the donkey work (or even - - create a licenced add-on).

 

Scenarios would almost certainly have to be done via the licenced route (and probably as PDFs, for that matter) if they were going to be "properly published" as it were, because of the financial considerations- the earlier suggestion regarding publishing stuff as HERO Plus sounds like a viable idea.

 

We have plenty of creative types in this community, judging by the posts I have seen in the last 2 years.

 

We also have a few history geeks, which certainly helps when "fleshing out" kingdoms that have identifiable historical analogues.

 

I can also add in a few extras (I can help out with the non-sentient monster shortage, for instance).

 

Also I do layout/typesetting for a living. Customised layouts are perfectly possible (which would -if I had the choice - be fancier than the standard DOJ one but NOT one of those hideous style-over-substance jobs that appear far too often on the shelves of my FLGS).

 

There would obviously have to be the usual oversight for an add-on (like, for example, a "HERO Bestiary II" - type project) to make sure that the power levels of supposedly similar monsters are not to divergent (which can happen because different GMs use different power levels in their campaigns - I started off using [100+50] TA characters and am now using [150+50], which impacts what sort of challenges the party can face down).

 

Again, we have some artistically-gifted members, so we can at least make things look professional in the art department.

 

I am aware that a lot of us are getting on in years () and Real Life tends to intrude quite a lot, but there is that saying: "if you want anything done, ask a busy person", so there you go...

 

You already have one willing volunteer :D