gewing Posted January 16, 2009 Report Share Posted January 16, 2009 Re: Cool Guns for your Games The half before you get hit by a half-pound lead ball' date=' or the half afterward?[/quote'] now that is funny! I thought some people might find it interesting. I know we had a player years ago who wanted a 4 ga sawed off double barrel shotgun for his Brick to carry... I can't remember whether we let him have it. Nowadays I might have him pick up a mystery hunted "Firearms collectors 8-, seriously punish" for the attrocity of cutting off a 120 year old rarity... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gewing Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 a few things from SHOT SHOW 2009 this is a nice site for pics http://lundestudio.com/2009SHOTShow/ now THAT is an anti-zombie chainsaw! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remjin Posted March 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 Re: Cool Guns for your Games Ummm... cuz I know I like this combo of things... last one is likely photoshopped, by oh well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 Re: Cool Guns for your Games off topic- I was going to post this here, but decided it was too off topic, but I'll mention that I put it in the NGD, and so it can be discussed there. http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1799606#post1799606 Figured that a lot of gun spuds would need to read this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexShinjo Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 Re: Cool Guns for your Games Ummm... cuz I know I like this combo of things... last one is likely photoshopped' date=' by oh well.[/quote'] I know this might be a little off topic. If any of you managed to catch mythbusters but that chain gun was the only one able to actually shoot through a tree. http://www.geekologie.com/2008/03/machine_gun_cuts_down_tree_set.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remjin Posted March 31, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 Re: Cool Guns for your Games I know this might be a little off topic. If any of you managed to catch mythbusters but that chain gun was the only one able to actually shoot through a tree. http://www.geekologie.com/2008/03/machine_gun_cuts_down_tree_set.php Nope, not off-topic, and cool to boot. I like the original comment about his crush on the girl. =) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadmaster Posted April 3, 2009 Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 Re: Cool Guns for your Games I know this might be a little off topic. If any of you managed to catch mythbusters but that chain gun was the only one able to actually shoot through a tree. http://www.geekologie.com/2008/03/machine_gun_cuts_down_tree_set.php Mythbusters should have tried this one, when you absolutely positively want to defoliate an area. Quad .50 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m225CyqeEAs or for those who prefer something a bit more high tech, GAU-19 .50 cal gatling Just a pet peeve, the mini-gun is a gatling style weapon not a chaingun. The chaingun is a specific type of electrically operated machine gun that uses a chain to operate the action instead of recoil or gas like most guns. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chain_gun http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gatling_guns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susano Posted April 3, 2009 Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 Re: Cool Guns for your Games you absolutely positively want Just a pet peeve, the mini-gun is a gatling style weapon not a chaingun. The chaingun is a specific type of electrically operated machine gun that uses a chain to operate the action instead of recoil or gas like most guns. Except for the sf story where the chaingun really did shoot bits of chain. (The ammo was one long length of coiled chain, IIRC.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadmaster Posted April 4, 2009 Report Share Posted April 4, 2009 Re: Cool Guns for your Games Except for the sf story where the chaingun really did shoot bits of chain. (The ammo was one long length of coiled chain' date=' IIRC.)[/quote'] Not familiar with that particular story, but chain shot was used on sailing ships. Two under bore balls connected by a chain, very useful for taking out masts and sails on ships, also fairly effective against crews on deck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gewing Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 Re: Cool Guns for your Games Mythbusters should have tried this one, when you absolutely positively want to defoliate an area. Quad .50 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m225CyqeEAs or for those who prefer something a bit more high tech, GAU-19 .50 cal gatling Just a pet peeve, the mini-gun is a gatling style weapon not a chaingun. The chaingun is a specific type of electrically operated machine gun that uses a chain to operate the action instead of recoil or gas like most guns. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chain_gun http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gatling_guns There was a round for the .50 developed for the riverine (brown water) warfare units in vietnam. IIRC, it used a tapered muzzle attachment, making it into a squeeze bore, and then the cartridge had 5 stacked lead pellets, I think they were conical. As they passed through the muzzle attachment, they were swaged down to .30 caliber, and proceeded from there. So 5x as many projectiles from each barrel of the .50. Now if they used M3 aircraft HMGs, with their 1200 or so rpm instead of the M2 with its 650 or so... THe problem being that with the muzzle adaptor, they could not fire OTHER kinds of rounds. Though 4 barrels shooting a mix of Raufoss Mk211 and slap rounds would be pretty devastating too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted April 11, 2009 Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 Re: Cool Guns for your Games Meh. Popguns. GAU-8/A Test Firing Notice that you can't see the A-10 because of the trees, you hear the rounds hit first, then the sound of the gun firing, and then the A-10 passes over. That's exactly what the Warsaw Pact forces would have been dealing with if they'd ever made that rush through the Fulda Gap. There's a slow-motion video of the rounds hitting (and some passing through) a target tank, but I can't find it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gewing Posted April 12, 2009 Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 Re: Cool Guns for your Games I remember back in the 80s as the A-10 was coming into use, there was an article in Aviation week about it, and they wrote up a gun test. IIRC they used an M-47 for the target. It was hit something like 21 times, and 7 were "perforations" The one I found fascinating was the one that perforated the BARREL of the gun. that is an odd angle and two layers of steel. One of those clips also showed some Maverick firings. I remember the Army's old Micro armor tactical rules (Dunn Kempf or some such iirc) had a simple entry for weapon effects under Maverick. " A maverick hit is a kill." Now as it turns out, the shaped charge is not designed to be the most effective on tanks. It uses an aluminum liner, but is designed to blow a Large diameter hole, and the aluminum is naturally pyrophoric as and after it penetrates.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted April 13, 2009 Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 Re: Cool Guns for your Games I remember back in the 80s as the A-10 was coming into use, there was an article in Aviation week about it, and they wrote up a gun test. IIRC they used an M-47 for the target. It was hit something like 21 times, and 7 were "perforations" The one I found fascinating was the one that perforated the BARREL of the gun. that is an odd angle and two layers of steel. One of those clips also showed some Maverick firings. I remember the Army's old Micro armor tactical rules (Dunn Kempf or some such iirc) had a simple entry for weapon effects under Maverick. " A maverick hit is a kill." Now as it turns out, the shaped charge is not designed to be the most effective on tanks. It uses an aluminum liner, but is designed to blow a Large diameter hole, and the aluminum is naturally pyrophoric as and after it penetrates.... For anyone who doesn't know this, the Maverick is plenty effective against tanks, because it rarely hits a tank from low and head-on. Much of the extra firepower required by one tank to kill another is because tanks are often firing at the best armor of other tanks. The pyrophoric effect is primarily for setting off all that fuel and ammo that a tank is usually stuffed with. As for the GAU-8/A, from about a mile away, with an experienced pilot, you'll typically see over 30 of the ~60 rounds in a one second burst hit an area the size of a tank. The USAF considers *SIX* to be a lethal hit. Even if -- by some miracle -- none of the rounds penetrate the interior of the tank, it's a mission kill, because anything on the outside of the tank -- extra fuel, stores, radio, optics, main gun, secondary weapons, etc -- is wiped out. Again, the rounds are hitting from above, usually on the sides and top of the tank and turret, so they have far less armor where the rounds are striking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundog Posted April 15, 2009 Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 Re: Cool Guns for your Games I remember back in the 80s as the A-10 was coming into use, there was an article in Aviation week about it, and they wrote up a gun test. IIRC they used an M-47 for the target. It was hit something like 21 times, and 7 were "perforations" The one I found fascinating was the one that perforated the BARREL of the gun. that is an odd angle and two layers of steel. One of those clips also showed some Maverick firings. I remember the Army's old Micro armor tactical rules (Dunn Kempf or some such iirc) had a simple entry for weapon effects under Maverick. " A maverick hit is a kill." Now as it turns out, the shaped charge is not designed to be the most effective on tanks. It uses an aluminum liner, but is designed to blow a Large diameter hole, and the aluminum is naturally pyrophoric as and after it penetrates.... Shaped-charge weapons, like the Maverick, were hideously effective against the steel or aluminium hulled vehicles they were designed to kill, such as the T-65 and T-72 (and T-76, though a later model). They also proved lethal to the then-current generation of US tanks and armoured vehicles. However, the development and deployment of vehicles with Laminate armour (more or less starting with the M1 Abrams in 1980) has made purely Kinetic weapons the preferred tank killers (thus the use of DU-SABOT rounds by modern tanks for the purpose). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gewing Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 Re: Cool Guns for your Games For anyone who doesn't know this, the Maverick is plenty effective against tanks, because it rarely hits a tank from low and head-on. Much of the extra firepower required by one tank to kill another is because tanks are often firing at the best armor of other tanks. The pyrophoric effect is primarily for setting off all that fuel and ammo that a tank is usually stuffed with. As for the GAU-8/A, from about a mile away, with an experienced pilot, you'll typically see over 30 of the ~60 rounds in a one second burst hit an area the size of a tank. The USAF considers *SIX* to be a lethal hit. Even if -- by some miracle -- none of the rounds penetrate the interior of the tank, it's a mission kill, because anything on the outside of the tank -- extra fuel, stores, radio, optics, main gun, secondary weapons, etc -- is wiped out. Again, the rounds are hitting from above, usually on the sides and top of the tank and turret, so they have far less armor where the rounds are striking. don't get me wrong, the maverick is a near certain kill on even new tanks. The latest ones would have a slight chance of survival if a hit strikes their front turret at a shallow angle, but otherwise... That 130 lb shaped charge was optimized for bunkerbusting, but they designed it to be overkill for tanks too. I understand it is pretty effective on soft targets nearby also. A modern shaped charge array (it would probably have 2 or 3 charges) that large designed to kill tanks specifically would be hugely overkill. I think it is 9 inches in diameter (I could be wrong) so a modern tandem charge should get something like 50+ inches of penetration(??) even outside laboratory conditions. with the extra weight they could put all sorts of lethality enhancers, whether a fragmentation sleeve to hit softer targets or a follow through penetrator/grenade... There is a program to replace the Maverick and the Hellfire (or at least supplement the hellfire) with a missile closer in size to a Hellfire, with longer range iirc. Joint Common missile was killed, the sort of resurrected as Joint airborne missile or something like that. I think it is supposed to weigh 100-150 lbs, and have a multi-purpose warhead. I think the Hellfire has a warhead weighing less than 20 lbs, and I have seen estimates that the anti-armor warhead will penetrate roughly a meter or more of armor steel equivalent. The anti-ship version is a blast/fragmentation, and there is a thermobaric version too as I recall. There may even be a specialized fragmentation version that uses small fragments (or even tungsten powder) so that the fragments won't go through walls and kill everyone in a building, just everyone in the room it hits, with reduced lethatility at longer ranges. The 30mm gun is a truly awesome weapon, but its penetration is somewhat lacking for catastrophic kills on MBTs. The rounds would have to hit relatively limited areas of a T-90 for instance to guarantee a hard kill. Shred the tracks, optics, and everything outside it, sure. THere was a "coloring book" printed as a training aid for the pilots on what areas to target for the greatest chance of a kill. I have seen it online, but... As I recall the primary targets on a T-72 or T-90 were the hull lower sides or the engine deck/ turret rear. Pretty much anything SHORT of an MBT is toast. The airforce tested but decided not to field a rocket assisted AP round for the gun, it extended the "lethal range" from iirc 1200 to 1800 meters. In current usage, the High explosive Incendiary is afaik being used almost exclusively, though the AP could be reloaded at any time. I saw footage on iirc Youtube of an A-10 burst on a building in Afghanistan. It was awe inspiring, though I suppose a bunker under it MIGHT have survived... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 Re: Cool Guns for your Games don't get me wrong, the maverick is a near certain kill on even new tanks. The latest ones would have a slight chance of survival if a hit strikes their front turret at a shallow angle, but otherwise... That 130 lb shaped charge was optimized for bunkerbusting, but they designed it to be overkill for tanks too. I understand it is pretty effective on soft targets nearby also. A modern shaped charge array (it would probably have 2 or 3 charges) that large designed to kill tanks specifically would be hugely overkill. I think it is 9 inches in diameter (I could be wrong) so a modern tandem charge should get something like 50+ inches of penetration(??) even outside laboratory conditions. with the extra weight they could put all sorts of lethality enhancers, whether a fragmentation sleeve to hit softer targets or a follow through penetrator/grenade... There is a program to replace the Maverick and the Hellfire (or at least supplement the hellfire) with a missile closer in size to a Hellfire, with longer range iirc. Joint Common missile was killed, the sort of resurrected as Joint airborne missile or something like that. I think it is supposed to weigh 100-150 lbs, and have a multi-purpose warhead. I think the Hellfire has a warhead weighing less than 20 lbs, and I have seen estimates that the anti-armor warhead will penetrate roughly a meter or more of armor steel equivalent. The anti-ship version is a blast/fragmentation, and there is a thermobaric version too as I recall. There may even be a specialized fragmentation version that uses small fragments (or even tungsten powder) so that the fragments won't go through walls and kill everyone in a building, just everyone in the room it hits, with reduced lethatility at longer ranges. The 30mm gun is a truly awesome weapon, but its penetration is somewhat lacking for catastrophic kills on MBTs. The rounds would have to hit relatively limited areas of a T-90 for instance to guarantee a hard kill. Shred the tracks, optics, and everything outside it, sure. THere was a "coloring book" printed as a training aid for the pilots on what areas to target for the greatest chance of a kill. I have seen it online, but... As I recall the primary targets on a T-72 or T-90 were the hull lower sides or the engine deck/ turret rear. Pretty much anything SHORT of an MBT is toast. The airforce tested but decided not to field a rocket assisted AP round for the gun, it extended the "lethal range" from iirc 1200 to 1800 meters. In current usage, the High explosive Incendiary is afaik being used almost exclusively, though the AP could be reloaded at any time. I saw footage on iirc Youtube of an A-10 burst on a building in Afghanistan. It was awe inspiring, though I suppose a bunker under it MIGHT have survived... Well, like I said, mission kill -- a tank with no guns, no optics, no radio, and no tracks is useless. The upper deck of the turret or the rear hull is very likely to be hit by a few rounds, and only one needs to get through and find something flamable on the inside of the tank -- fuel, ammunition, the crew. I doubt that a crew hatch is going to do much to stop the API round, and if a crew happens to leave a hatch open... Is this the clip you're thinking of? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Iz5MwPsfyo&feature=related And another good one. There are several segments in this video of GAU-8 fire hitting tanks. Some appear to be with the practice rounds, and some with the API rounds. At 1:48, 3:35 and 4:04 in. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJSk2Xc3Eq4&feature=related IIRC, the older tanks used in some of the tests don't even stop the API penetrators, and they end up going out the other side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gewing Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 Re: Cool Guns for your Games Well, like I said, mission kill -- a tank with no guns, no optics, no radio, and no tracks is useless. The upper deck of the turret or the rear hull is very likely to be hit by a few rounds, and only one needs to get through and find something flamable on the inside of the tank -- fuel, ammunition, the crew. I doubt that a crew hatch is going to do much to stop the API round, and if a crew happens to leave a hatch open... Is this the clip you're thinking of? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Iz5MwPsfyo&feature=related And another good one. There are several segments in this video of GAU-8 fire hitting tanks. Some appear to be with the practice rounds, and some with the API rounds. At 1:48, 3:35 and 4:04 in. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJSk2Xc3Eq4&feature=related IIRC, the older tanks used in some of the tests don't even stop the API penetrators, and they end up going out the other side. Yeah, that is the clip of the building being shredded... Even the target practice rounds from it are nasty, I think I have heard that for some uses they are using them for combat roles in some areas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DusterBoy Posted April 21, 2009 Report Share Posted April 21, 2009 Re: Cool Guns for your Games And here I was thinking this thread was about guns a human could pick up and use. To that end, I'd like to recommend the RobArms XCR. Check it out at www.robarm.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted April 22, 2009 Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 Re: Cool Guns for your Games And here I was thinking this thread was about guns a human could pick up and use. To that end' date=' I'd like to recommend the RobArms XCR. Check it out at www.robarm.com. I've seen the XCR on TV at some point, I think... maybe in the 6.5mm version. (The GAU-8/A derail was basically to trump everything else that was being posted at that point. ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DusterBoy Posted April 22, 2009 Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 Re: Cool Guns for your Games Well, if you think the A-10 is going to make an appearance in your game, then yes, the GAU-8/A is a very cool gun, since complete with ammo tank, it's longer than a VW Jackrabbit. I was just thinking more on the lines of actual small arms and personal weapons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susano Posted April 22, 2009 Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 Re: Cool Guns for your Games Hey, there's some Champions characters who could haul around and fire the GAU8/A. Right? Especially of they have the strength of madness! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadmaster Posted April 22, 2009 Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 Re: Cool Guns for your Games Well' date=' if you think the A-10 is going to make an appearance in your game, then yes, the GAU-8/A is a very cool gun, since complete with ammo tank, it's longer than a VW Jackrabbit. I was just thinking more on the lines of actual small arms and personal weapons.[/quote'] Blame mythbusters for failing to do their homework. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gewing Posted April 22, 2009 Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 Re: Cool Guns for your Games And here I was thinking this thread was about guns a human could pick up and use. To that end' date=' I'd like to recommend the RobArms XCR. Check it out at www.robarm.com. I believe it was in co-operation with Robarms that Cor bon developed their version of the 6x45mm. http://www.dakotaammo.net/products/corbon/dpx.htm I am seriously considering building a barrel for this, that I can put in my ar-15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DusterBoy Posted April 26, 2009 Report Share Posted April 26, 2009 Re: Cool Guns for your Games I was wondering how to post videos from Youtube, etc, 'cos I've had an idea . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susano Posted April 26, 2009 Report Share Posted April 26, 2009 Re: Cool Guns for your Games I was wondering how to post videos from Youtube' date=' etc, 'cos I've had an idea . . .[/quote'] Just paste in the url for the video itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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