DusterBoy Posted May 17, 2009 Report Share Posted May 17, 2009 Re: Cool Guns for your Games I seem to remember a program (maybe future weapons) where R&D guys were working on bullets that can turn corners. They had built the bullets with actuators so individual rounds could maneuver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remjin Posted May 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2009 Re: Cool Guns for your Games On the rare occasion that I get to shoot' date=' I use "earmuffs", as I cannot stand having anything stuck in my ear (also includes the earbuds that are standard for portable MP3 players and other such devices). Causes intense itching within 30 seconds or less, no matter what. Ergle.[/quote'] I can understand that. I don't mind it, personally. For us it was more of a matter of the earplugs canceling out vital commands that were being yelled down the field. I know that the weapon damages a certain amount of hearing. But at the moment I'd rather hear that vital "shift fire" when you don't have smoke. I also understand this, which is why I'd be an advocate of the electronic earplug that kill all noise above X decibels and allow you to hear everything else. Thus, in a case like mine, I can still hear range commands and regular speech just fine, but all the actual shooting is cancelled out. They're pretty neat, and pretty cheap to boot. Surefire even offers some that skip the electronics and just fit inside the ear. Surefire EarPro Sonic Defenders I'd think (since I've never been there) that these would also be useful in a military duty situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fbdaury Posted May 18, 2009 Report Share Posted May 18, 2009 Re: Cool Guns for your Games Would liquid drug cryo rounds be too scifi for DC do you think? You know, Knockout drug slivers that melt once penetrating the target's body, thus being introduced into the bloodstream? Read of the concept somewhere before in a scifi novel or somesuch and thought it would be quite a cool little idea- no ballistics and an efficient Non lethal for use against light or unarmored targets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundog Posted May 18, 2009 Report Share Posted May 18, 2009 Re: Cool Guns for your Games Would liquid drug cryo rounds be too scifi for DC do you think? You know' date=' Knockout drug slivers that melt once penetrating the target's body, thus being introduced into the bloodstream? Read of the concept somewhere before in a scifi novel or somesuch and thought it would be quite a cool little idea- no ballistics and an efficient Non lethal for use against light or unarmored targets.[/quote'] The substance would have to be resistant to extremes of heat, pressure and impact, blood soluble very very fast, and the drug would have to debilitate in very small doses. No such substance currently exists, and those properties are pretty extreme. In addition, you'd need to be able to control the amount of power used by the gun to enable penetration of skin and clothing but not punch holes in internal organs and cause massive bleeding. I'd call it a bit far out. Still, if it fits your campaign, there's no reason not to use it and ignore the tech problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Posted May 18, 2009 Report Share Posted May 18, 2009 Re: Cool Guns for your Games I also understand this' date=' which is why I'd be an advocate of the electronic earplug that kill all noise above X decibels and allow you to hear everything else. Thus, in a case like mine, I can still hear range commands and regular speech just fine, but all the actual shooting is cancelled out. They're pretty neat, and pretty cheap to boot. Surefire even offers some that skip the electronics and just fit inside the ear. Surefire EarPro Sonic Defenders I'd think (since I've never been there) that these would also be useful in a military duty situation. Grumble grumble, Lowest bidder... grumble grumble. Note, I'm not grumbling at you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remjin Posted May 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 Re: Cool Guns for your Games Grumble grumble, Lowest bidder... grumble grumble. Note, I'm not grumbling at you. So noted. I heard that was the issue with the M9 pistol function issues, as the magazines were a second party product that had terrible finishes that tended to form cracks and such, thus retarding the magazine spring from being able to function correctly. I'm hoping that was corrected, if that story is true. Y'know, amongst other things. =) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmadanNaBriona Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 Re: Cool Guns for your Games The substance would have to be resistant to extremes of heat' date=' pressure and impact, blood soluble [i']very very fast, [/i]and the drug would have to debilitate in very small doses. No such substance currently exists, and those properties are pretty extreme. In addition, you'd need to be able to control the amount of power used by the gun to enable penetration of skin and clothing but not punch holes in internal organs and cause massive bleeding. I'd call it a bit far out. Still, if it fits your campaign, there's no reason not to use it and ignore the tech problems. You know, as I was reading this I suddenly flashed back to eating a quail my Great Uncle took with a "spice load" 12 gauge shell. They were like birdshot made of compressed spices so you could just go ahead and cook them in place. Tasty. Anyway, it suddenly dawned on me that something similar might be the most reliable way to do a current tech "drug bullet", tho probably as soluble salts rather than ice. Sort of the rock salt approach writ large. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DusterBoy Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 Re: Cool Guns for your Games Talking about problems with the M9, I read that the Navy SEALs changed to the SIG-Sauer P226 after a catastrophic slide failure with an M9 cost a SEAL some of his teeth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remjin Posted May 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 Re: Cool Guns for your Games You know, as I was reading this I suddenly flashed back to eating a quail my Great Uncle took with a "spice load" 12 gauge shell. They were like birdshot made of compressed spices so you could just go ahead and cook them in place. Tasty. Anyway, it suddenly dawned on me that something similar might be the most reliable way to do a current tech "drug bullet", tho probably as soluble salts rather than ice. Sort of the rock salt approach writ large. .... the compressed spice birdshot has got to be one of the best ideas, ever. Spice it and shoot it all in one easy step. That is awesome. Gonna rep you if it lets me. Talking about problems with the M9' date=' I read that the Navy SEALs changed to the SIG-Sauer P226 after a catastrophic slide failure with an M9 cost a SEAL some of his teeth.[/quote'] Haven't they been using 'em for awhile? Then again, isn't "standard issue" and Navy Seals kind of an opposing view? I had heard special forces guys (or at least some of them) were allowed a pretty wide berth with their gear. I don't wanna knock the M9, Beretta makes a good product as far as I know, but I'm no expert or anything... and I hardly put my equipment through the rigors any military unit would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 Re: Cool Guns for your Games So noted. I heard that was the issue with the M9 pistol function issues' date=' as the magazines were a second party product that had terrible finishes that tended to form cracks and such, thus retarding the magazine spring from being able to function correctly. I'm hoping that was corrected, if that story is true. Y'know, amongst other things. =)[/quote'] Personally, while I was in, I never had an Issue with the Beretta myself, nor have I heard... Well, I was going to say from someone else personally, but to be honest, this is the first I've heard of that Issue at all. That is not to say that there aren't 5,000 other issues of "lowest bidder" that I haven't gone through personally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 Re: Cool Guns for your Games Talking about problems with the M9' date=' I read that the Navy SEALs changed to the SIG-Sauer P226 after a catastrophic slide failure with an M9 cost a SEAL some of his teeth.[/quote'] ROTFLOL, sorry, I don't much like SEALS. Never met one that was worth talking to, much less stand near. SF are much better company, and Delta are just cool to be able to stand near. IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 Re: Cool Guns for your Games *snip* Haven't they been using 'em for awhile? Then again, isn't "standard issue" and Navy Seals kind of an opposing view? I had heard special forces guys (or at least some of them) were allowed a pretty wide berth with their gear. I don't wanna knock the M9, Beretta makes a good product as far as I know, but I'm no expert or anything... and I hardly put my equipment through the rigors any military unit would. I understand that most SoF units have much leeway. But what with the SEALS and their love of the 226 and the MK23, the choices are slim, unless your mission is way outside some set perimeters (IE, your looking for concealability, or it's a non-(upfront)combat mission, etc). Even with all the lax uniform standards, when looking at a lot of pics of SoF troops, one can usually pick out what unit their from based on what gear they are using... So much like the major lieges, good equipment, seems to be good equipment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wcw43921 Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 Re: Cool Guns for your Games Would liquid drug cryo rounds be too scifi for DC do you think? You know' date=' Knockout drug slivers that melt once penetrating the target's body, thus being introduced into the bloodstream? Read of the concept somewhere before in a scifi novel or somesuch and thought it would be quite a cool little idea- no ballistics and an efficient Non lethal for use against light or unarmored targets.[/quote'] Well, I remember an episode of Mythbusters where they investigated the possibility of "ice bullets," but as I recall the bullets disintegrated even before they left the barrel. Now I was thinking dry ice (CO2) bullets might work, but the wound they'd make entering the body would leave little doubt as to the bullet used once it had been encountered several times. One idea I had was a "dart" like an aspirin or other such tablet that was sharpened to a needle-point and fired out of a compressed air gun, not unlike the soluble salts round that AmadanNaBriona postulated. It could be used to deliver lethal or non-lethal compounds, and would dissolve quickly in the bloodstream, and unlike a regular dart would not bear the fingerprints or DNA of the person who fired it. I don't know how well such a weapon would work in real life, but in comics, movies or TV it would work perfectly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmadanNaBriona Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 Re: Cool Guns for your Games .... the compressed spice birdshot has got to be one of the best ideas, ever. Spice it and shoot it all in one easy step. That is awesome. Gonna rep you if it lets me. Yeah, it was a real forehead smacker for me when I first heard about them, too. Bloody brilliantly simple idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmadanNaBriona Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 Re: Cool Guns for your Games Well' date=' I remember an episode of [i']Mythbusters[/i] where they investigated the possibility of "ice bullets," but as I recall the bullets disintegrated even before they left the barrel. Now I was thinking dry ice (CO2) bullets might work, but the wound they'd make entering the body would leave little doubt as to the bullet used once it had been encountered several times. One idea I had was a "dart" like an aspirin or other such tablet that was sharpened to a needle-point and fired out of a compressed air gun, not unlike the soluble salts round that AmadanNaBriona postulated. It could be used to deliver lethal or non-lethal compounds, and would dissolve quickly in the bloodstream, and unlike a regular dart would not bear the fingerprints or DNA of the person who fired it. I don't know how well such a weapon would work in real life, but in comics, movies or TV it would work perfectly. I've often wondered if you could use a cryo-gas cooled mould to cast bullets out of Mercury, perhaps with arsenic in suspension... You might need a carbon fiber (or nano-fiber) matrix to stabilize the ice for firing pressures, ala pikrete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulcan Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 Re: Cool Guns for your Games Well' date=' I remember an episode of [i']Mythbusters[/i] where they investigated the possibility of "ice bullets," but as I recall the bullets disintegrated even before they left the barrel. They went on to show that a bullet made out of frozen meat was viable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matrix3 Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 Re: Cool Guns for your Games They went on to show that a bullet made out of frozen meat was viable. Which was used on an episode of CSI, on which the Mythbuster later appeared. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadmaster Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 Re: Cool Guns for your Games Talking about problems with the M9' date=' I read that the Navy SEALs changed to the SIG-Sauer P226 after a catastrophic slide failure with an M9 cost a SEAL some of his teeth.[/quote'] Supposedly the incident resulted in a new motto, you're not a SEAL until you've tasted Italian steel, or something like that. Of course in defense of the Beretta the SEALs put a lot of rounds through their guns, it was pointed out that in just a few years the Beretta involved had fired more rounds than most military issue pistols will fire in a lifetime of service. Beretta also addressed the problem strengthening the area in question. The SIG is a nice gun though and shoud havewon the competition, but its magazines cost more making the Beretta the overall cheaper weapon, and the government loves low bid. I've fired the Beretta M92, a couple of SIG Sauers and Glocks. I don't much care for the Glock (I just don't care for the feel of it), the Sigs and the Beretta are nice guns, athough if given the choice I would lean towards a Sig, the H&K USP is nice too. In 9mm I'm still quite partial to my S&W though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gewing Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 Re: Cool Guns for your Games to truly blow your mind, look at what is being developed for guided rounds... even down to SMALL ARMS!! Mea Culpa! It looks like I forgot to put the link with the previous post! http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2009gunmissile/7946.pdf As to M9s, there were some problems with slide breakage, iirc it was primarily a matter of heat treatment with one large batch. I could, of course, be wrong. I think the M9 is a good gun, but not a good Standard issue sidearm. IMO it is too large for many shooters to get a good grip. The M11 (sig P228) is noticably smaller in the the grip area, as well as overall. The Sig 226 was aiui "too expensive" when the M9 was selected. There were also some Nato standardization tradoffs involved, I believe. As Italy was buying some American stuff... That compressed spice shot load is a very interesting idea. It would be VERY short range, but... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gewing Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 Re: Cool Guns for your Games Well' date=' I remember an episode of [i']Mythbusters[/i] where they investigated the possibility of "ice bullets," but as I recall the bullets disintegrated even before they left the barrel. Now I was thinking dry ice (CO2) bullets might work, but the wound they'd make entering the body would leave little doubt as to the bullet used once it had been encountered several times. One idea I had was a "dart" like an aspirin or other such tablet that was sharpened to a needle-point and fired out of a compressed air gun, not unlike the soluble salts round that AmadanNaBriona postulated. It could be used to deliver lethal or non-lethal compounds, and would dissolve quickly in the bloodstream, and unlike a regular dart would not bear the fingerprints or DNA of the person who fired it. I don't know how well such a weapon would work in real life, but in comics, movies or TV it would work perfectly. My idea for a "non-lethal" comic book or movie weapon is a modified paintball gun... If it was based on the FN 303 it should have slightly longer accurate range than a standard paintball. The modification involved would be something along the lines of a super thin glass lining in the round, so that the mix of DMSO and a sedative would not leak out. It could also be used in a short range squirt gun type weapon, but... Other drugs could be so delivered, for instance hallucinogenics. The magazines would have to be sealed to a very high level to prevent leakage on the user. It would still face the problem that all drug delivery weapons would, controlling dosage and avoiding allergic reaction or negative drug interactions with medicines the target is on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulcan Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 Re: Cool Guns for your Games Which was used on an episode of CSI' date=' on which the Mythbuster later appeared.[/quote'] Frankly, CSI isn't always your best source for science - they are telling a story, after all. And if it makes sense in the story for them to use CGI to make two pixels into a recognizable picture, then they go with that. But the Mythbusters made a bullet out of hamburger (or was it a steak? I forget), froze it with liquid Nitrogen, and fired it into a target with potentially lethal results. Good enough for government work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matrix3 Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 Re: Cool Guns for your Games Frankly' date=' CSI isn't always your best source for science - they [i']are[/i] telling a story, after all. And if it makes sense in the story for them to use CGI to make two pixels into a recognizable picture, then they go with that. But the Mythbusters made a bullet out of hamburger (or was it a steak? I forget), froze it with liquid Nitrogen, and fired it into a target with potentially lethal results. Good enough for government work! Well, yes, they are telling a story, including 24 hour or less DNA tests and better equipment outside of Langley. I just found it really funny the way they crossed over and back that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korvar Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 Re: Cool Guns for your Games Don't think I've seen this one in this topic, but I'm not going through all 11 pages to check SHOTGUN "Made from iron bedposts; charge made of pieces of lead from curtain tape and match-heads, to be ignited by AA batteries and a broken light bulb. On May 21, 1984 two inmates of a prison in Celle, Germany, took a jailer as a hostage, showed off their fire power by letting go at a pane of bullet-proof glass, and escaped by car." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manic Typist Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 Re: Cool Guns for your Games ....wow, props to them for ingenuity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSgt Baloo Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 Re: Cool Guns for your Games Don't think I've seen this one in this topic, but I'm not going through all 11 pages to check SHOTGUN "Made from iron bedposts; charge made of pieces of lead from curtain tape and match-heads, to be ignited by AA batteries and a broken light bulb. On May 21, 1984 two inmates of a prison in Celle, Germany, took a jailer as a hostage, showed off their fire power by letting go at a pane of bullet-proof glass, and escaped by car." Warden: "That's it! No more MacGyver reruns for the inmates, and that goes DOUBLE for Mythbusters!!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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