Heroes for pay

[nexus]

How does the concept of heroes for pay strike the board, principled mercenaries or sponsered Heroes that receive a salary? Are either any less heroic?

[assault]

Re: Heroes for pay

 

How does the concept of heroes for pay strike the board' date=' principled mercaaries that do "heroic" deeds but are paid for it, like very principled merenaries. How about sponsered Heroes that receive a salary? Are either any less heroic?[/quote']

 

Presumably Captain America was on the government's payroll in WW2, if only as Steve Rogers.

 

Power Man and Iron Fist did the Heroes for Hire thing in the 70s. I never had a problem with that.

 

Alpha Flight was on the Canadian government's payroll, at least at first.

 

The Southern Squadron, published in Australia back in the 80s, was a government team.

 

Hero Hotline was a private professional superhero company.

 

I'm not sure, but I think the original Doom Patrol were supported by the Chief, although they didn't have a lot of other career choices...

 

There are plenty of precedents for heroes on a pay cheque.

 

Hero Hotline is probably the best example of "working stiff" heroes.

 

I don't have a problem with any of these examples. Getting all righteous about them would make little sense to me.

[Kirby]

Re: Heroes for pay

 

Honestly, I think it would be hypocritical for someone to say a paid "superhero" is unethical while the accuser is being paid for their own job. I don't consider teachers, soldiers, policemen or firefighters unethical for being paid to do their jobs (being among the most necessary of the heroic).

 

It's easy to gloss over the job in a HERO campaign, since the money concept isn't crucial. But when you "stop to think about it," a well-paying job would be necessary; otherwise, all "superheroes" would have to be independently wealthy. If a city, state, or government agency paid for a super to be a hero, the super is essentially a high powered law enforcement agent. There's nothing wrong with that.

 

As an aside, one of my PCs happens to be a super on the city's payroll (this is the first time I've thought to do it). She reports to the deputy mayor.

[nexus]

Re: Heroes for pay

 

How about mercenary heroes, like a superpowered "A Team"?

[Gemphyre]

Re: Heroes for pay

 

How does the concept of heroes for pay strike the board' date=' principled mercaaries that do "heroic" deeds but are paid for it, like very principled merenaries. How about sponsered Heroes that receive a salary? Are either any less heroic?[/quote']

 

My opinion is that it is slightly less heroic, but not undoable. A lot depends on who is paying them and why, as well as what jobs they do and if they can turn jobs down.

 

For example, let's say that a large metropolitan city pays the heros as a sponsored crime fighting team and is effectively a "super SWAT" and rescue team for situations that the normal SWAT teams are ill-equiped to handle, such as Dr. Destroyer showing up. They would be given a half-way decent base in the middle of the city and a basic support staff, and they would have police powers, but they would also be on call and need to handle the situations that the police commissioner dictates, as well as any other crimes that they happen to be able to stop. They would be subject to police regulations and regular news stories. They would be held to represent the city as well, either in their best aspects or their worst. They would still be considered reasonably heroic in the same manner as police are. They are just not as altruistic as unpaid heros. Suggestion, base the pay on what the police elite units are paid, since that is what they effectively are. Also vary the attitudes of the cops, judges, and lawyers about them.

 

More mercenary teams might be less picky, or have less say over the types of jobs they take. They would be considered even less heroic.

 

A team with an unknown sponsor would be defined more by what they do than whether or not they are paid and who by, unless the sponsor turns out to have a poor reputation, even if all their deeds have been stellar. (also known as a plot twist in the making. )

 

Paying the heros can actually go in just about any direction, and can be done for a number of reasons. The heros deeds and misdeeds, as well as whether or not this payment is known or unknown by the general public and who it is that is footing the bill will have a lot to do with what the public attitudes are.

 

Gemphyre

[Gemphyre]

Re: Heroes for pay

 

Honestly' date=' I think it would be hypocritical for someone to say a paid "superhero" is unethical while the accuser is being paid for their own job. I don't consider teachers, soldiers, policemen or firefighters unethical for being paid to do their jobs (being among the most necessary of the heroic).[/quote']

 

HERE, HERE!

 

Some of the most important jobs for a viable modern society are some of the worst paid. And those are the ones that I put at the top of my own list.

 

Former sailor (AT2),

Mother is a retired teacher,

numerous friends are teachers, soldiers, and sailors, as well as police and firefighters

 

Gemphyre

[Comic]

Re: Heroes for pay

 

The negotiation, method of payment, pricing and so on of a hero for pay group could make interesting roleplay itself.

 

Be nice to have a use for those trading, bureaucracy, and PS: accountant skills in the line of heroing. Unless the GM wants to handwave it and have the team sponsor be a background outfit paid for with Base Points, likely best to let the players spend some time roleplaying it.

 

One hero team I was on was largely paid for by beer company sponsorship in the campaign. And when one hero was publicly humiliated, a rival in the team rubbed his nose in how much more lucrative her endorsements were.

[Kari]

Re: Heroes for pay

 

Well, Gurps IST:s are directly paid by the UN and have military rank. Also the Champions:New Millenium team bankrolled their operations by merchandizing so getting paid for superheroics is well supported in gaming material too.

 

Whenever I´ve thought about the Clark Kent/Peter Parker type setup I allways thought it was rather silly premise but accepted it as a genre convention.

 

I would think that a tryly mercenary super team would work quite nisely.

[OddHat]

Re: Heroes for pay

 

My campaign defaults to the idea that Hero Teams pay their members, and are funded by corporate sponsors (funding a municipal hero team is great PR and tax deductible), OSI (a government agency) grants, licensing deals, contributions from individuals and foundations, municipalities and state governments. Religious organizations also often sponsor super teams, and the largest employer of Supers in the world is the Roman Catholic church.

 

Risking your life without recompense isn't something we expect of police, fire fighters, or soldiers. Noblese oblige is all well and good if you have a massive trust fund or can get a few million a trip for flying satellites into space, but a forward thinking young Super who wants to get an apartment and stop fighting crime out of his mom's basement is going to find a team that can offer him medical, dental, and, if he's lucky, royalties from the DVD sales. If he can't find a team or a sponsor, there are plenty of well payed jobs open to someone with almost any superpower. Only Supers who absolutely refuse to register need to schedule their crime fighting around their shifts at WaWa.

 

As to the comics, the working stiff who's secretly a Hero is a trope I don't give a frack about. Making enough money to live on takes a minimum of forty hours a week for most people, and both exceptionally good and exceptionally crappy jobs often take sixty or more. Add in a family and eight hours of sleep a night and you get to save the world for a few hours every weekend. If the Aliens invade at 10:00 am on a Tuesday, forget it, the world is doomed.

[OddHat]

Re: Heroes for pay

 

Well, Gurps IST:s are directly paid by the UN and have military rank. Also the Champions:New Millenium team bankrolled their operations by merchandizing so getting paid for superheroics is well supported in gaming material too.

 

Whenever I´ve thought about the Clark Kent/Peter Parker type setup I allways thought it was rather silly premise but accepted it as a genre convention.

 

I would think that a tryly mercenary super team would work quite nisely.

 

Well, Kent at least has potentially infinite wealth, even if that doesn't come through in the movies. He can squeeze coal into diamonds, use Kryptonian supertech to manufacture pretty much anything, or build almost anything with his bare hands. His salary as Clark Kent really doesn't need to support anything but the rent on his apartment.

 

Parker, on the other hand, suffered from massive self esteem issues and sponged off his hot wife.

[nexus]

Re: Heroes for pay

 

Personally, I don't see much wrong with superheroes getting a salary in and of itself (motivaton, personality and actions count for allot though).. I was actually more curious what opinions were about actual mercanary superheroes. They do good deeds but only when they're hired to do so and paid.

[assault]

Re: Heroes for pay

 

If the Aliens invade at 10:00 am on a Tuesday' date=' forget it, the world is doomed.[/quote']

 

That's what teams are for. Everybody works shifts.

 

If anything major comes up, everybody available scrambles, otherwise it's up to the hero or two on the relevant shift to deal with.

 

Folks like Snapper Carr and that work the team's call centre.

 

Hmm... so if you hit a bank at 10:00 am on a Tuesday, you are likely to run into college students, or other supers that don't work full time.

 

It's likely that younger supers would be more active than older ones, who are likely to have "real jobs", families, mortgages and so on. The chances are the latter mostly do backup and training.

 

The Super Friends idea seems less idiotic the more I think about it. Veteran supers need to train replacements. Come to think of it, sidekicks (almost) seem like a good idea too!

 

Of course, all of that depends on their being at least a few supers in a particular area. Other than that, the main form of superhero "coverage" would be from supers that can find an excuse to sneak away from work in an emergency.

 

Or professionals, of course.

[OddHat]

Re: Heroes for pay

 

That's what teams are for. Everybody works shifts.

 

If anything major comes up, everybody available scrambles, otherwise it's up to the hero or two on the relevant shift to deal with.

 

Folks like Snapper Carr and that work the team's call centre.

 

Hmm... so if you hit a bank at 10:00 am on a Tuesday, you are likely to run into college students, or other supers that don't work full time.

 

It's likely that younger supers would be more active than older ones, who are likely to have "real jobs", families, mortgages and so on. The chances are the latter mostly do backup and training.

 

The Super Friends idea seems less idiotic the more I think about it. Veteran supers need to train replacements. Come to think of it, sidekicks (almost) seem like a good idea too!

 

Of course, all of that depends on their being at least a few supers in a particular area. Other than that, the main form of superhero "coverage" would be from supers that can find an excuse to sneak away from work in an emergency.

 

Or professionals, of course.

 

While professionals are the default super groups in my campaign (the Avengers and JLA analogs), I always liked sidekicks and the Superfriends set up, for the reasons you mentioned above. Kids with super powers need training and practical experience to learn how to survive as Supers, and older Supers need support and successors. Internships solve problems for both groups. And yes, having someone else to protect the city when you're catching your eight hours or trying to make your rent payment is more than worth giving up your day off to do monitor duty in the Hall of Justice.

[OddHat]

Re: Heroes for pay

 

Personally' date=' I don't see much wrong with superheroes getting a salary in and of itself (motivaton, personality and actions count for allot though).. I was actually more curious what opinions were about actual mercanary superheroes. They do good deeds but only when they're hired to do so and paid.[/quote']

 

Depends on the setting and tone I guess. I wouldn't expect a cop to work without pay, but I wouldn't expect him to ignore a crime in front of him just because he was off duty either.

 

My campaign does feature Super Bounty Hunters, Security Staff, and Mercenaries, but they're not treated with the same level of respect (and lack the same legal powers) as members of Municipal, State, or Federal Super Teams, in much the same way that real world Bounty Hunters and Security aren't viewed in the same light as real police officers.

[nexus]

Re: Heroes for pay

 

Mercenary Heroes could make an interesting campaign, IMO. Exploring just where the line is between pragmatic heroes (altruism and good deeds are great but they don't pay the bills) and hired superpowered muscle or rent-a-capes could be interesting. if someone comes to the group honestly in need of help but can't afford their fee, do they send them on their way? What if a celebrity or other rich figure decides it would be cool to have some superpowered bodyguards in their entourage and backs a dump truck full of money up to the heroes' office for a long term contract? Do the take it and ignore "real" problems to attend parties and fly their client home when she passes out after a wild night? If Grond is rampaging through downtown to they go to help though they might not be paid? How do they avoid shady missions and betrayal and keep their integrity under the lure of money and possibly fame? But it could also quickly get either cynical as problems and issues rack up or stilted if nothing ever goes wrong and the heroes always get hired to do things "normal" superheroes have do anyway.

[Victim]

Re: Heroes for pay

 

Helping people who can't afford to pay or dealing with a rampaging monster/super might easily fall under public relations, and thus would have some value even if there's no direct revenue. Assuming decent existing cash flow, a super business might write off free assistance as advertising, PR, some kind of charitable tax deduction, etc.

 

What kind of stuff mercenary supers have to do and what people think might also depends on what other kind of supers there are. If pretty much all supers will have some kind of for pay arrangement - probably generally with some level of government, there's not much of problem. In fact, then amatuer supers will probably be looked down instead, since they're not going to have the same official backing, training, liability, etc. On the other hand, if most super heroes aren't getting paid, then much of the more legitimate work will be done by those types, leaving those looking to make some money with less upboard work or indirect means (patents, making diamonds, etc).

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Heroes for pay

 

Personally' date=' I don't see much wrong with superheroes getting a salary in and of itself (motivaton, personality and actions count for allot though).. I was actually more curious what opinions were about actual mercanary superheroes. They do good deeds but only when they're hired to do so and paid.[/quote']

 

A lot depends on the dynamic.

 

"help us - we're being chased by a murderous demon."

 

"I'm sorry, sir, your account seems to have lapsed."

 

"I'll clear the balance - I'll pay it first thing tomorrow."

 

"I'll note on our files to send out assistance as soon as your cheque clears, sir."

 

The example I don't see mentioned as yet is the Power Company, supers organized much like a law firm. That one had some dynamics between altruism and pragmatism in that the members were all over the map on the pendulum between the two. They did some "pro bono" work.

[Jalinth]

Re: Heroes for pay

 

I'm a fan of Supertemps from GURPS: Supers. Have powers and are not sure what to do with them? Sign on with Supertemps! In addition to the Guardian Division (Heroes for Hire), there are the Industrial and Entertainment Divisions. So even if you don't want to use yours powers risking your life, you can make a living or at least some extra cash.

 

If you have some kind of oddball problem, just contact Supertemps and they will see about hooking you up with someone with powers that could help. I think it is one of the more realistic Super Setting Corperations I have read about.

[StGrimblefig]

Re: Heroes for pay

 

I guess I see Supers on a government payroll as more like firemen -- they are paid to be "on call." Whenever there is a situation that need their unique abilities, the bell on the wall starts ringing, and they all leap into action. That kind of presumes that the government provides a base for them to live in, and they would probably all know each others' secret IDs.

 

I suppose you could go with a "Volunteer Firefighter" model, where each Super has their own personal life, and secret ID, but when the beeper goes off, they are expected to come to the base to find out what is up. That still makes it kind of hard sometimes to keep your secret ID secret ("Why does Bob's pager always go off just before the Super Dudes are on TV?").

 

Mercenary Supers are more complicated. To be truly mercenary means that you have to sometimes accept jobs from both sides (not at the same time, though -- that would be bad for business). Limiting yourself to heroic jobs only severely limits your potential business (and cash flow), but greatly increases your PR. The best would be if they could negotiate an open-ended bounty -- e.g. the Feds offer a $200 bounty for each confirmed VIPER agent they turn over alive. As for examples (other than those already mentioned), I keep thinking of the webcomic Schlock Mercenary (http://www.schlockmercenary.com/) -- they are not supers, generally, but they are a good model for a mercenary team.

[FenrisUlf]

Re: Heroes for pay

 

I don't see a hero who gets a paycheck for his work as being any less heroic than a cop or EMT or firefighter. They all get paid for what they do, after all.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Heroes for pay

 

How about mercenary heroes' date=' like a superpowered "A Team"?[/quote']

 

Probably not the best example. The A-Team's adventures glossed over a lot of the monetary details, like it glossed over so many other elements of reality. They functioned more like paramilitary Robin Hoods, helping people in need without asking for recompense. We never really heard how they acquired the funds for food, fuel, tools to build their elaborate traps for the bad guys, or all the ammo they expended every episode.

[Steve]

Re: Heroes for pay

 

Being paid for superheroing also brings up roleplaying possibilities when it comes to maintaining a Secret ID. The character has no visible means of support, but they have money to spend.

 

Do they claim to have a trust fund they live off of?

 

Do they pretend to be some kind of consultant?

 

If they work for the government as superheroes, do they have a cover job for their Secret ID provided as well? That would be like how some secret agencies provide covers for their agents.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Heroes for pay

 

A lot depends on the dynamic.

 

"help us - we're being chased by a murderous demon."

 

"I'm sorry, sir, your account seems to have lapsed."

 

"I'll clear the balance - I'll pay it first thing tomorrow."

 

"I'll note on our files to send out assistance as soon as your cheque clears, sir."

 

Many "help" institutions in various countries have this dynamic, including hospitals. They usually maintain a budget for free care to the needy (which as was mentioned upthread, counts as "public relations"), but may turn away some deserving people based on their ability to pay. Some folks criticise that as uncaring, others accept it as an unfortunate necessity.

[nexus]

Re: Heroes for pay

 

Probably not the best example. The A-Team's adventures glossed over a lot of the monetary details' date=' like it glossed over so many other elements of reality. They functioned more like paramilitary Robin Hoods, helping people in need without asking for recompense. We never really heard how they acquired the funds for food, fuel, tools to build their elaborate traps for the bad guys, or all the ammo they expended every episode. [/quote']

 

Well it was the best example that came quickly to mind for "heroic" mercenaries. Yeah, it was a goofy show but I think it was intentionally campy.

[OddHat]

Re: Heroes for pay

 

Being paid for superheroing also brings up roleplaying possibilities when it comes to maintaining a Secret ID. The character has no visible means of support, but they have money to spend.

 

Do they claim to have a trust fund they live off of?

 

Do they pretend to be some kind of consultant?

 

If they work for the government as superheroes, do they have a cover job for their Secret ID provided as well? That would be like how some secret agencies provide covers for their agents.

 

In my own campaign, full OSI supers (government supers) are given cover jobs, usually on paper only, often with another branch of government. Military Supers are given code names and their real identities are classified.

 

State and municipal team employed supers get less security; their identities are kept confidential on about the same level as undercover police officers.

 

Corporate sponsored supers generally register for a fictitious name license enabling them to cash checks made out to "Captain Outstanding", but their identities aren't hard to crack.