Heroes for pay

[Wanderer]

Re: Heroes for pay

 

Being paid for superheroing also brings up roleplaying possibilities when it comes to maintaining a Secret ID. The character has no visible means of support, but they have money to spend.

 

Do they claim to have a trust fund they live off of?

 

Do they pretend to be some kind of consultant?

 

If they work for the government as superheroes, do they have a cover job for their Secret ID provided as well? That would be like how some secret agencies provide covers for their agents.

 

Typically, Secret ID concerns matters rather less for sanctioned heroes. It makes absolutely sense for them to draw a regular paycheck, and a rather hefty at that; super-agents are quite more precious than regular cops, doctors, firemen, or soldiers, so they should all have the Money perk (say 2-3 for city defenders: 5 minimum for JLA/Avengers national/global enforcers). Plus the perks of free. tax-payer provided equipment, base, vehicles, fringe benefits, full medical plans. Their job either is their super-job (likely) as an hybrid super-cop/super-soldier, or they have a cover job in some defense or intelligence agency. Their loved ones either live under cover in a version of the Witness Program, or live in the base. Their Secret ID, if it does exist, is a national security issue, and anyone that tries to break it can expect a lot of people in black suits to show up at their door posthaste. They can take the stand, buy property, sign contracts, in their code name.

[Alverant]

Re: Heroes for pay

 

Probably not the best example. The A-Team's adventures glossed over a lot of the monetary details' date=' like it glossed over so many other elements of reality. They functioned more like paramilitary Robin Hoods, helping people in need without asking for recompense. We never really heard how they acquired the funds for food, fuel, tools to build their elaborate traps for the bad guys, or all the ammo they expended every episode. [/quote']

 

They did some big jobs that paid well to help fund the times when they helped people for little or no money (plus they often took money from the bad guys). Money was never really the issue. I remember several times where they gave change or even refunds. They were good at scrounging which helped keep costs down.

 

Oh, and if you make your own ammo, it's a lot cheaper and can't be traced.

 

But yes, it was campy and unrealistic. That's what made it fun.

 

Even heroes have to eat. Spider-man took pictures of himself to pay the bills. Heroes who don't have reliable income get money problems. Heroes with money problems become villains out of necessity.

[MilkmanDan]

Re: Heroes for pay

 

I can envision some attention-hungry rich kid sponsoring their own team. I mean, can't you see "Team Paris", Paris Hilton's superteam? They go around, do good deeds, save people, and the usual supers routine, but they always thank Paris and she shows up at all the promo opportunities.

[Alverant]

Re: Heroes for pay

 

I can envision some attention-hungry rich kid sponsoring their own team. I mean' date=' can't you see "Team Paris", Paris Hilton's superteam? They go around, do good deeds, save people, and the usual supers routine, but they always thank Paris and she shows up at all the promo opportunities.[/quote']

 

But who would join, apart from Paris fans, the truly lame, or globe trotting heroes who think they can get free rooms at Hiltons around the world?

[MilkmanDan]

Re: Heroes for pay

 

But who would join' date=' apart from Paris fans, the truly lame, or globe trotting heroes who think they can get free rooms at Hiltons around the world?[/quote']

 

It'd be the young heroes trying to make a name for themselves, the attention whores, or the criminals trying to prove they'd reformed. Being in Paris Hilton's super-posse would guarantee you all sorts of attention; lots of people want to be looked at no matter what, so people would be lining up to join.

 

You'd assumably get a big salary, get to travel a lot, go out clubbing constantly, and basically get drooled over by everybody because you were (A) rich, ( famous, and © a superhero.

 

No, it's not exactly something that fits into the four-color genre, but it's the kind of thing that works in some campaigns.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Heroes for pay

 

It'd be the young heroes trying to make a name for themselves' date=' the attention whores, or the criminals trying to prove they'd reformed. Being in Paris Hilton's super-posse would guarantee you all sorts of attention; lots of people want to be looked at no matter what, so people would be lining up to join.[/quote']

 

It could also be a hero who detests the lifestyle, but has no other source for the resources he or she needs to be able to perform heroic deeds. I mentioned the Power Company earlier. One of the characters, Skyrocket, fit the stereotypical Altruistic Superhero mold, but joined because she needed access to technology and a steady source of funds to maintain her powered armor. Such a character can create conflict within the team - Skyrocket regularly locked horns with other team members due to her willingness to perform good deeds on a pro bono basis (or, viewed another way, give away the milk, making prospective clients less inclined to buy the cow).

[Rapier]

Re: Heroes for pay

 

Actually, more than anything, I should direct my players here.

 

We/they work for Heroes for Hire. It's rather FreeLancers in it all. It's rather Dark Champions with a lot of Good vs Evil. I think it can work well. One of the important factors (and I have plans for it, if it happens) is that the players could ALWAYS decide they want no part of the mission and skip it. They get to decide if the contract they are presented is worth taking.

 

It's also important that the lady they work for is a very moral person. She makes sure that the contracts are legit (and we don't end up going ShadowRun on the players) and that the facts as presented are accurate.

 

So far, I think it works. Just because you want to do good, does not mean that you should also be eating mac-n-cheese and ramen-noodles. There SHOULD be some kind of way that you can do both.

[nexus]

Re: Heroes for pay

 

I think it really boils down to which is more important to the characters: doing good and helping people or the paychecks in the end. Where the balance falls and how it might be different for different characters could lead to some interesting role playing, IMO.

 

I'll also say that supers that are more interested in their paychecks than heroic deeds aren't nessacarily bad people though they may not be "heroes". They're no more wrong than security guards, hied body guards, private investigators and those that enter the military to get skills, training and something that looks good on a resume unless they actively cross the line into immorality in pursuit of personal gain. They're people with highly specalized skills and abilities and real people, from prostitutes to engineers, charge highly for such things every day. In "realistic" setting just having powers doesn't obligate you to be a hero.

[Darclight]

Re: Heroes for pay

 

Actually' date=' more than anything, I should direct my players here.[/quote']

 

I'm one of the players in Rapier's game. I'm fairly new to Champions in general, but think that heroes for pay is fine in general and is working out nicely for our game in specific. Now we do work for a "good guys" company, so there are some limits regarding who we will be working for, and we can always turn an assignment down if we want.

 

From a general perspective I think there are plenty of scenarios where you can be the "good guys" and still get paid. In addition to working for the government as mentioned, you could have non-profit organizations, you could work in a private investigator situation like the early seasons of the Angel TV show, you could work for a benevolent individual or corporation(which is our situation).

 

I think the heroes for pay thing can also lead to some very interesting roleplaying situations. In our prior campaign we were sort of heroes for pay, although we weren't really assigned missions. It still lead to some potentially interesting discussions about what was right and wrong, and why we were there. In our current game I see the potential for that to come up at some point as well. Even straight up mercenaries might reach a point where they question what they are doing.

 

Form the perspective of our current game, I think it's interesting that there is an entire company behind our team. Not so much from the usual resources point of view, but things like a PR department, interaction with the regular employees, the side comments/jokes about our characters action figures, the potential for bad PR and how that could effect our standing in the eyes of the public, etc. All interesting from a roleplay perspective.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Heroes for pay

 

I'm one of the players in Rapier's game. I'm fairly new to Champions in general, but think that heroes for pay is fine in general and is working out nicely for our game in specific. Now we do work for a "good guys" company, so there are some limits regarding who we will be working for, and we can always turn an assignment down if we want.

 

From a general perspective I think there are plenty of scenarios where you can be the "good guys" and still get paid. In addition to working for the government as mentioned, you could have non-profit organizations, you could work in a private investigator situation like the early seasons of the Angel TV show, you could work for a benevolent individual or corporation(which is our situation).

 

I think the heroes for pay thing can also lead to some very interesting roleplaying situations. In our prior campaign we were sort of heroes for pay, although we weren't really assigned missions. It still lead to some potentially interesting discussions about what was right and wrong, and why we were there. In our current game I see the potential for that to come up at some point as well. Even straight up mercenaries might reach a point where they question what they are doing.

 

Form the perspective of our current game, I think it's interesting that there is an entire company behind our team. Not so much from the usual resources point of view, but things like a PR department, interaction with the regular employees, the side comments/jokes about our characters action figures, the potential for bad PR and how that could effect our standing in the eyes of the public, etc. All interesting from a roleplay perspective.

 

I think the grey area is not only "what assignments will the characters take for money", but "what are the characters prepared to do without pay". Let's assume you reject the "Kidnap the Senator's child by attacking a school" mission - do you just walk away, or do you do something (with no client) to protect the senator's child, and all those other children, from whoever does take the contract?

[Rapier]

Re: Heroes for pay

 

I think the grey area is not only "what assignments will the characters take for money"' date=' but "what are the characters prepared to do without pay". Let's assume you reject the "Kidnap the Senator's child by attacking a school" mission - do you just walk away, or do you do something (with no client) to protect the senator's child, and all those other children, from whoever does take the contract?[/quote']

 

So far, they've been taking it on the pocket-book-chin, so to speak. One of their first missions was to defend the city against yet another incursion by the armies of the Zombie King. The company covered raw expenses (ammo, transport, etc), but they received no compensation for the half a day they spent blowing the snot out of zombies...other than the sheer joy of spending half a day blowing the snot out of zombies, that is.

 

We also don't actually track bank account information. While they are receiving paychecks and living in the corporate tower and such, we aren't actually keeping some kind of profit/loss statement for each character. It's more of a plot device than an actual "work to pay the bills" kind of situation.

 

While the background of the campaign centers around their "position" as employees of Heroes for Hire , there have been and will continue to be (especially in the not-to-distant future) situations where they will have to decide if they start doing a little pro-bono work and how they go about non-compensated 'adventures.' I'm sure there will even be situations where they aren't necessarily working for anyone. Maybe something will occur that would cause them, as a team, to want to hit the streets and bag some baddies...just for the fun of it. Who can tell?

 

EDIT: I should also mention, that there is a rival corporation. They are not very nice (or very competent or very choosey with their employers). It's not too uncommon to poach a contract just to make the other side look bad.

[pinecone]

Re: Heroes for pay

 

How does the concept of heroes for pay strike the board' date=' principled mercaaries that do "heroic" deeds but are paid for it, like very principled merenaries. How about sponsered Heroes that receive a salary? Are either any less heroic?[/quote']

 

I got no problem...Cops get paychecks, are they "mercinaries"? I just refer to this as "Full time heros" (they "work" as heros)

[The Weapon]

Re: Heroes for pay

 

Probably not the best example. The A-Team's adventures glossed over a lot of the monetary details' date=' like it glossed over so many other elements of reality. They functioned more like paramilitary Robin Hoods, helping people in need without asking for recompense. We never really heard how they acquired the funds for food, fuel, tools to build their elaborate traps for the bad guys, or all the ammo they expended every episode. [/quote']

 

The ammunition is cheaper if you get the kind that can't seem to actually kill anyone. Seriously, I know that in WWI and WWII 7000 rounds were fired for every dead soldier, but the A-Team fired that every episode and never inflicted more than a flesh wound.

[Bloodstone]

Re: Heroes for pay

 

Actually' date=' more than anything, I should direct my players here.[/quote']

 

Sorry I'm late!

 

I think an important distinction is that, even though we get paid to do our jobs, we don't act like a bunch of "mercenaries".

 

We've never refused to help someone in need because the price wasn't right. Ghost Eagle, for example, won't be getting any extra pay for risking electrocution while pulling a civilian off the third rail.

 

Three members of the team have lethal AoE powers, but we don't run around blowing up civilians to get to our targets. Though given the number of times we've fought mind control using villains, it's been kinda tempting

 

Despite being armed to the teeth and authorized to use lethal force, several of the team members avoid killing as much as possible. That can be hard to do in the more warzone like situations, but I don't think Robin has ever deliberately killed anyone, despite not having a CvK.

 

I am waiting for the day when a contract comes our way that we don't want to take for whatever reasons. I think that'll be an interesting game session, especially if some of the teammates DO want to take the contract...

[Great Beyond]

Re: Heroes for pay

 

Probably not the best example. The A-Team's adventures glossed over a lot of the monetary details' date=' like it glossed over so many other elements of reality. They functioned more like paramilitary Robin Hoods, helping people in need without asking for recompense. We never really heard how they acquired the funds for food, fuel, tools to build their elaborate traps for the bad guys, or all the ammo they expended every episode. [/quote']

Didn't watch the show much did you? They were always concerned about expenses (well, Face was mostly), and they were always getting paid by clients, or dipping into the defeated villain's ill gotten gains and taking some off the top for operating expenses. No, it wasn't a real world economy, but they did pay some lip service to it.

In my longest running game, the team operated kind of like the Ghostbusters - they had an office downtown, a secretary, and a 800 number. In trouble? Bad guys blackmailing you? Help was one phone call away - professional metahuman investigations and eliminations, 24 hours a day! Honestly tho, the money aspect was pretty much glossed over and the hotline was mostly used for a quick and easy to set games in motion as necessary. (The team was mostly supported through action figures, comic book sales and movie/television deals).

The most recent game had the team officially on the city's payroll as the official superhero team. It was a small stipend, mostly covering the cost of replacement costumes destroyed in the line of duty. Fortunately we had a couple of solid businessmen on the team who were able to be independently - well, comfortable if not outright wealthy.

[phoenix240]

Re: Heroes for pay

 

How does the concept of heroes for pay strike the board' date=' principled mercenaries or sponsored Heroes that receive a salary? Are either any less heroic?[/quote']

 

I don't think so. I've always been a little confused by the attitude that being compensated is morally wrong. Firemen, soldiers, police officers and other dangerous profession are paid for their work so what's different about being a "professional" superhero? It would only be less heroic if money was the sole reason for the character's heroism and they did things like ignore crimes and trouble if they aren't "on the clock".

[Greywind]

Re: Heroes for pay

 

The Avengers were paid weekly through the Maria Stark Foundation.

[Christopher]

Re: Heroes for pay

 

I think somebody once said to Batman or Iron Man: No everyone can be a (orphanned) Multi-Millionaire.

 

Usually superheroes tend to have a Secret ID whose job pays for the bills.

But this might not be feasible for all (especially those without Secrect ID):

If they don't have a secret ID they tend to have a organisation that pays their bills (S.H.I.E.L.D., Green Lanter Corps) or they might be above that (Thor, in some versions).

 

But there might simply be heroes that don't have somebody to back them, don't have a Secret ID, can't get a normal side job (it's like hiring a Firemen, except the Fire might search him at work and burn the place down).

Or perhaps they are "full time heroes" that don't have time for Secret ID's.

[SSgt Baloo]

Re: Heroes for pay

 

In my WW II campaigns, the heroes were not-quite-drafted, but paid a decent wage and offered living quarters and a base of operations. Their base was minimalist (except for size) and had an interference roll to represent the team's primary responsibility of countering axis agents and super-agents, as well as regular crime-fighting duties.

[Clonus]

Re: Heroes for pay

 

How does the concept of heroes for pay strike the board' date=' principled mercenaries or sponsered Heroes that receive a salary? Are either any less heroic?[/quote']

 

I'm going to swim against the tide and say, yes it is more impressive when someone saves the day and that wasn't even their job. It doesn't make the salaried heros not heroic by any means. It's still impressive. But just not quite as unnaturally heroic as the person who saves person after person without ever having incurred an obligation to do it or getting recompense...particularly when they are balancing this avocation with a regular day job. Be honest now. What would you be more impressed by, a police officer who arrested a robber, or a private citizen who did the same thing when it wasn't even their establishment being robbed?

 

It's just kind of important to remember that "less heroic" is not the same thing as "unheroic" and that sufficiently advanced heroism is indistinguishable from folly.

[Christopher]

Re: Heroes for pay

 

Be honest now. What would you be more impressed by, a police officer who arrested a robber, or a private citizen who did the same thing when it wasn't even their establishment being robbed?

 

It's just kind of important to remember that "less heroic" is not the same thing as "unheroic" and that sufficiently advanced heroism is indistinguishable from folly.

I would think: God damn, is he nuts? Depending on the weapons of the robber and himself people could have gotten hurt. People tend to get overconfident when they have a weapon and thinking "I can take him on" without having training will just get bystanders get into the line of fire or the line of swing.

[BvBPL]

Re: Heroes for pay

 

I agree with Clonus: paid heroes are less heroic in absolute terms because the heroes have an ulterior, and selfish, motive to their actions. This doesn’t make them unheroic, just less heroic, again just as Clonus said.

That said, a “Heroes for Hire” campaign presents a lot of very interesting ideas. Here’s ten story hooks or twists for a heroes for hire campaign:

1.) While on a mission for their employer, perhaps chasing their escaping target, the heroes see a more severe crime in progress. Do they let their quarry go to save the day, completed their hired tasks, or try to do both?

2.) The heroes’ employer has sent them on a mission that puts them in conflict with other heroes hired by another organization. Assuming the heroes talk it out, they realize that both employers seem to have legitimate reason for hiring the heroes. How do the PCs handle this?

3.) During a slow time, the heroes are offered a opportunity to compete in some sort of superpowered athletic or pugilistic competition for broadcast TV. Is this an ethical use of their superpowers?

4.) Citizen groups picket the PCs because the citizens feel the heroes are ignoring the needs of the poor in favor of those who can pay for the services of the superheroes. Or the policemen’s union pickets them for infringement on the role of the police.

5.) Via proxy, a villain hires the heroes to:

a. Fight another villain (or other heroes through some subterfuge) for the employer’s gain.

b. Go on a shaggy dog mission so they villain can run amok

c. Perform some work that turns out to be unpopular so that public opinion turns against the heroes.

6.) After a successful mission, an employer cannot or will not pay the heroes. What action can they take?

7.) The heroes’ national government decides to nationalize the Heroes for Hire industry. The PCs’ private organization will be subsumed within the greater governmental organization, and the heroes may be used for less than heroic purposes.

8.) Where do you buy insurance for your Hire A Hero business? An interesting downtime session can be built around obtaining the necessary insurance, representation, permits, and the like for running a heroic business. Having the players create a logo and business card can be an interesting teambuilding exercise.

9.) Heroes, maybe the PCs or maybe another NPC hero for hire group, feel that their compensation is inappropriately low. What action do they take? Do they organize into a labor union? How do they respond to claims that they are greedy money grabbers in the media?

10.) Through running a successful hire a hero business, the heroes have earned substantial wealth and fame. How do they explain this in their secret identities? What sort of problems does fame and wealth create for those with public identities?

[Christopher]

Re: Heroes for pay

 

I agree with Clonus: paid heroes are less heroic in absolute terms because the heroes have an ulterior' date=' and selfish, motive to their actions. This doesn’t make them unheroic, just less heroic, again just as Clonus said.[/size']

What type of paid hero do you mean?

On the one side is one with a steady salary/stipend to cover his living cost because he can't have a Secret ID (or because he can devote more time heroing that way).

On the other the one that get's paid on a "per villian caught or crime twarted" basis or even the mercenary way: "Only work when the pay has been determiend first".

[SSgt Baloo]

Re: Heroes for pay

 

I would think: God damn' date=' is he nuts? Depending on the weapons of the robber and himself people could have gotten hurt. People tend to get overconfident when they have a weapon and thinking "I can take him on" without having training will just get bystanders get into the line of fire or the line of swing.[/quote']

 

Watch a few episodes of World's Dumbest some time. I cheered when the armed robber got his butt kicked by an 80-something Marine. Or when a lady with a mop chased the thugs from her store. Etc. Good times.

[Christopher]

Re: Heroes for pay

 

Watch a few episodes of World's Dumbest some time. I cheered when the armed robber got his butt kicked by an 80-something Marine. Or when a lady with a mop chased the thugs from her store. Etc. Good times.

And how often do your hear "Shot when he tried to play the hero"?

 

Theses guys had luck that the target was suprised by the reaction. When you go against somebody who is armed you either manage to disable him with your first strike* (or at least get him on the defense so he can't threaten anybody else) or third people will get caught in the crossfire.

 

(*you either kill him, disable him or get him so out of his thoughts he can't act harmfull anymore)