New Advangtage: Always Hits

[Trebuchet]

Re: New Advangtage: Always Hits

 

I think conceptually it doesn't work. If it can be avoided by taking cover, can't you then Dive for Cover?

 

How does someone block or missile deflect this attack?

These are valid questions which need to be addressed. (If one can Block or Missile Deflect this attack, what is the base OCV against which you must Block/Missile Deflect? The same as that of the attacker? Is it adjusted for range?)

 

What kind of attacks actually never miss? It just doesn't make sense.

Magic, über/alien tech, homing, dieties, all come to mind as possibilities.

[pawsplay]

Re: New Advangtage: Always Hits

 

Magic' date=' über/alien tech, homing, dieties, all come to mind as possibilities.[/quote']

 

Homing attacks can miss. If you dive for cover outside its effective range, that's a miss. Deities miss... at least, they might miss other deities. I can't think of anything that conceptually, cannot miss.... a dead pigeon cannot fall out of the sky and intercept it, you can't get out of its way, you cannot anticipate someone's attack with precognition and avoid it, etc

[Trebuchet]

Re: New Advangtage: Always Hits

 

Homing attacks can miss. If you dive for cover outside its effective range' date=' that's a miss. Deities miss... at least, they might miss other deities. I can't think of anything that conceptually, cannot miss.... a dead pigeon cannot fall out of the sky and intercept it, you can't get out of its way, you cannot anticipate someone's attack with precognition and avoid it, etc[/quote']I believe we've already established that a natural 18 roll is a miss even with this Advantage.

 

My only real problem with the basic concept of this Advantage is that it can probably be duplicated with other Advantages and Skills; and there are some unanswered questions on its interactions with other abilities that need to be hammered out. I suspect it's going to take some actual playtesting to work all the kinks out (if indeed they can be). But I'm not going to reject it a priori.

[Supreme Serpent]

Re: New Advangtage: Always Hits

 

Years ago I was asked by a player about this.

 

"How much would it cost to always hit?"

 

I replied, "Twenty bucks a week."

[pawsplay]

Re: New Advangtage: Always Hits

 

I think almost any attack that "always hits" can simply be described as "hitting really well."

 

Let's say you want to define a laser as always hitting. Make it a huge area of effect, selective, then say it only hits one target. Now, you have to Dive for Cover basically out of point blank range of the laser to avoid getting hit. Same for homing missiles... give them a radius as to how far they can go.

 

Dieities? They just have a really high CV.

[Trebuchet]

Re: New Advantage: Always Hits

 

Years ago I was asked by a player about this.

 

"How much would it cost to always hit?"

 

I replied, "Twenty bucks a week."

[Killer Shrike]

Re: New Advangtage: Always Hits

 

If I ever allowed this, it would be a minimum of a +2. However, I object to true absolutes on principle and allow them very rarely; it invariably devolves into irresistible force immovable object paradoxes.

[BNakagawa]

Re: New Advangtage: Always Hits

 

The hero system does not deal in absolutes, so this mechanic does not work well with the existing structures.

 

Using a structure like this calls into question other problems.

 

I have yet to see a mechanism for resolving how this power interacts with missile deflect and/or missile reflection.

 

How do you resolve this power when you are firing at an invisible opponent?

 

How do you resolve this power when you are firing at an opponent that isn't actually there? (e.g. you are fooled by an image or mental illusion)

 

How do you resolve this power when you are firing at an unseen (e.g. targets under cover of darkness or illusion) enemy or multiple enemies?

 

How do you resolve this power when you are firing at an unseen (again, targets under cover of darkness, illusion, under a camo net) group of potential targets, some of which are enemies and some of which are human shields?

 

How do you propose to use this power in games which use hit locations? Do I get automatic head shots every time?

 

How do you propose to use this power in games with sectional armor? Can you hit unarmored locations automatically?

 

can somebody other than the intended target DFC in front to take the hit from this power?

 

can you bounce an attack that always hits?

 

can you spread an attack that always hits?

 

can you use ranged martial arts with attacks that always hit?

(because if you can, then I'm just buying a few dice of attack and a bunch of martial arts damage classes)

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: New Advangtage: Always Hits

 

Well, let's look at a 60 AP attack.

 

6d6 EB Always Hits will cost 60 points, and do 6d6 normal damage with no BOD. If you wanted it to do BOD, it costs 90 points.

 

For 60 points, I can buy 6d6 EB, 1 hex area, accurate (45 points) and +7 OCV with a single attack (1 point left over). That's going to hit pretty much everyone anyway, and it does BOD and Knockback.

 

For 90 points, I can buy 6d6 EB, 1 hex, accurate, no range modifers (60 points) and +15 OCV with that attack.

 

I think +1 feels about right.

 

This advantage is just begging for advantage stacking.

 

for 60 AP, you can do 4d6 NND that never misses. That's what this is going to be used for, because nobody ever bothers doing 6d6 damage unless it's tricked out with penetrating, AP, FW, or something else.

 

Area Effect suffers from the same issue.

 

Let's look at an NND.

 

4d6 NND EB Always Hits will cost 60 points, and do 4d6 normal damage with no BOD. If you wanted it to do BOD, it costs 80 points.

 

For 60 points, I can buy 4d6 EB, NND, 1 hex area, accurate (50 points) and +5 OCV with a single attack. That's going to hit pretty much everyone anyway.

 

For 80 points, I can buy 4d6 EB, NND, 1 hex, accurate, no range modifers (60 points) and +10 OCV with that attack.

 

I continue to think +1 feels about right.

[Guest steamteck]

Re: New Advangtage: Always Hits

 

I wouldn't allow it personally because I too dislike absolutes A one hex area would give you a similar effect that you could use fro cast spells etc. Combined with the resistable mentioned in another thread it would be a good simulation

[Sean Waters]

Always hits, unless....

 

I don't see a problem with including an 'I Can Hit Anything' (ICHA) advantage in a game, particularly, and I don't see much problem with the cost, particularly.

 

My logic runs thus: in a 60 AP game, a +1 advantage means you get, at most, a 6d6 attack, which would normally cost you 30 points, and so you could buy a 6d6 attack and +15 OCV witht he attack for 60 points. That will always hit, pretty much. Even if you are OCV 8 normally, and your opponent can dodge for DCV 20, you are STILL going to hit on a 8-, which is pretty much 'all the time', to all practical intents and purposes.

 

Anyway, the poor devil who gets hit with a 6d6 attack is only going to have to cope with an average of 21 stun, and there can't be many characters out there who would be stunned by that, even ones who rely on DCV.

 

We need to fix up some ground rules though: although we call it 'always hits' that is a misnomer. First of all you can missle deflect it, second you can avoid it with a 'dive for cover' roll that gets you out of the target hex.

 

Fair is fair - we need a 'defence' to everything. In fact, you could almost make it 'Not Normally Avoidable' or NNA, and you have to define a way to avoid being hit. It (as a default) will be missile deflection and dive for cover, but you could substitute other stuff, like magnetic fields, or not having a heat signature, or being able to change you heat signature, or whatever.

 

Of course it is abuseable - what isn't - but it is not going to unbalance the game. Not really.

 

Of course in games where Active Points does not matter, as a heavily limited 'stun the target' one sht, of course it is wrong. I'd expect any GM worth their salt to spot that one and squelch it. Also, the dread multipower is a problem (ye Gods, but I hate frameworks) - afterall for a very few points you might as well have the 'sure hit' power. Of course, I'd require some proper justification beyond 'so as I can hit the quick ones...'

 

OK, there are two points here:

 

1. Should we have it at all, and

 

2. What should it cost if we should.

 

OK - 1. Why not - so long as it is not an absolute.

 

2. +1 sounds about right to me - on a par with NND. Arguably the 'current' ICHA advantage set is AoE + Selective, which costs between +3/4 and +1 1/4.

 

There is a third point - as has been mentioned - what about Autofire. I'd rule that if you do buy it with autofire, then either:

 

1. You roll to hit normally, and the first shot hits automatically, even if you would ntomally have missed, and you calculate the number of other shots that hit based ont he roll, OR

 

2. This advantage quadruples the cost of autofire: 3 hits = +1, 5 hits = +2 etc. In a game that pays attention to AP limts (as almost all games should IMO) that would mean you could (for 6 points) guarantee 3 hits that do 4d6 damage each. Whoop de-doo.

 

Oh, and finally, to get on my Hobby Horse, and ride it into battle - if you DO play in a campaign and this advantage is allowed, you STILL have to come up with proper sfx. WHY does it always hit? Explain. Whatever explanation you come up with will require several ways that the power can be avoided, I guarantee that.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: New Advangtage: Always Hits

 

Here is an attack that will hit and damage nearly* any target on any attack roll of 17- assuming an OCV of 9 or higher. Note that the higher the starting OCV the higher the damage (# of hits).

 

31 TAG: Energy Blast 1d6, No Range Modifier (+1/2), Affects Desolidified Any form of Desolidification (+1/2), Indirect (Any origin, any direction; +3/4), No Normal Defense ([standard]; +1), Autofire (20 shots; +1 1/2), Non-Standard Attack Power (+1) (31 Active Points) - END=3

19 You're IT: Area Of Effect Accurate (up to One Hex; +1/2) for up to 31 Active Points of Tag, MegaScale (1" = 1 km; +1/4) (19 Active Points) - END=2

 

*A character with Megascale movement could Dive 2" megascale to escape being hit. This would usually require some forewarning about the nature of the attack.

[BNakagawa]

Re: New Advangtage: Always Hits

 

Area Effect suffers from the same issue.

 

Let's look at an NND.

 

4d6 NND EB Always Hits will cost 60 points, and do 4d6 normal damage with no BOD. If you wanted it to do BOD, it costs 80 points.

 

For 60 points, I can buy 4d6 EB, NND, 1 hex area, accurate (50 points) and +5 OCV with a single attack. That's going to hit pretty much everyone anyway.

 

For 80 points, I can buy 4d6 EB, NND, 1 hex, accurate, no range modifers (60 points) and +10 OCV with that attack.

 

I continue to think +1 feels about right.

 

I continue to think that your examples prove that we don't actually need this advantage in the first place.

[CTaylor]

Re: New Advangtage: Always Hits

 

I agree that Hero doesn't have absolutes, but I'd argue this is no more an absolute than NND, which it is analogous to. If No Normal Defense was not in the game and someone proposed it, the reaction I suspect would be quite the same. Just buy more dice! Just buy Armor Piercing! Sure, you can. But NND does the job more specifically and effectively, just like AH does.

 

If you start arguing about absolute minimum need of stuff in Hero Games, we don't need KA and RKA, we don't need force field and armor, we don't need a lot of stuff that's in the rules. They are in there because they make the game easier and more complete, they save time and trouble building stuff.

[Trebuchet]

Re: New Advangtage: Always Hits

 

I agree that Hero doesn't have absolutes, but I'd argue this is no more an absolute than NND, which it is analogous to. If No Normal Defense was not in the game and someone proposed it, the reaction I suspect would be quite the same. Just buy more dice! Just buy Armor Piercing! Sure, you can. But NND does the job more specifically and effectively, just like AH does.

 

If you start arguing about absolute minimum need of stuff in Hero Games, we don't need KA and RKA, we don't need force field and armor, we don't need a lot of stuff that's in the rules. They are in there because they make the game easier and more complete, they save time and trouble building stuff.

This is nothing. You should have heard the shrieks of outrage when I proposed Invulnerability as a new Power a couple years ago; and heard a lot of similar arguments against:

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35184

 

You haven't been drawn and quartered yet, so I'd say you're ahead of the game.

[Comic]

Re: New Advangtage: Always Hits

 

I've seen more than one character with 'Always Hits' as part of their design.

 

For one, it was just a special effect. Even if his dice rolled a miss, he still hit, with the target effectively having 'Combat Luck' enough to negate the damage.

 

For the other, it was a Psych. Lim. He had an enormous OCV, but if he did ever actually miss, he suffered an equally enormous nervous breakdown, confidence shattered and the charm of his 'gift' broken.

 

The game certainly benefits from 'Always Hits' concepts.

 

I'm convinced it doesn't really need an 'Always Hits' mechanic, too, but it's an extensible system and if we can have really innovative things like megascale knockback, AF PEN AoE, cumulative IPE Mind Control and other fine products from OZ Workshops, we shouldn't object to this too much. We just need to price it right.

 

Given that there's already at least one one (admittedly kind of awkward) build that has been used in the past -- AoE Accurate -- we should price it at least at that level, where it is allowed at all.

 

It does open the can of worms of whose Mojo is bigger, the person with the 'Always Hits' or the one with the 'Can Never Be Hit' power, but that's why we have GM's. I recommend bribery as the method to determine outcome in this case.

[Clonus]

Re: New Advangtage: Always Hits

 

 

Magic, über/alien tech, homing, dieties, all come to mind as possibilities.

 

"Magic" is not noted for infallibility.

More advanced technology doesn't eliminate the chance of missing. It just means you'll have to move faster or at least with more precise timing to avoid it.

Homing attacks do miss. They just come back for another try if their propulsion lasts.

Dieties are likely to have those gigantic area attacks, selective for their smiting. Deities, at least the big ones shouldn't be built on a budget.

[Force]

Re: New Advangtage: Always Hits

 

Killing Attack - Ranged 1 point (standard effect: 1 BODY, 2 STUN), Penetrating (+1/2), Always Hits (+1), 16000 Charges (+1), Autofire (640 shots; +4) (37 Active Points)

 

 

I'd say this is sufficiently lethal - it would chew a battleship in half, maybe an entire fleet.

 

To me, this is more about the danger of mixing PEN with AF than any inherent problem with Always Hits.

 

No. It looks far worse.

[Utech]

Re: New Advangtage: Always Hits

 

I think this idea makes plenty of sense and don't see it as any more abusive than any other Advantage in the game.

 

Primarily to respond to BNakagawa, let me just be clear on how I see it being used:

 

Always Hits Dude (AHD) declares that he is going to use his Energy Blast with the Always Hits Advantage on Bad Fella (BF). The Energy Blast has a fire sfx and the Always Hits Advantage is defined as not hitting anyone with fire powers.

 

1) BF has no fire powers and is standing in the middle of an open field. AHD rolls three dice. The result is 18 and AHD has somehow missed.

2) BF has no fire powers and is standing in the middle of an open field. AHD rolls three dice. The result is not 18 and AHD's Energy Blast hits. AHD rolls damage dice.

3) BF has fire powers. There is no need to roll to hit -- AHD's Energy Blast simply cannot hurt BF. Of course, a to-hit roll might be made just for kicks.

4) BF is invisible. AHD has no idea where BF might be. AHD cannot successfully attack BF unless the GM rules it would be dramatically appropriate to allow the attack. This is true whether the invisibility is due to the Invisibility power or a result of AHD being unable to perceive BF due to a Flash, Darkness, darkness, or whatever the case.

5) BF is invisible. AHD has some idea where BF might be but has not made a PER roll with a non-targeting sense. AHD rolls three dice. Assuming no 18, the attack hits. BF has learned a valuable lesson about the limits of invisibility. This is true whether the invisibility is due to the Invisibility power or a result of AHD being unable to perceive BF due to a Flash, Darkness, darkness, or whatever the case. It is true whether BF is standing all by his lonesome, hanging with his pals, hanging with AHD's pals, or holding a human shield.

6) BF is invisible. AHD has some idea where BF might be and has made a PER roll with a non-targeting sense (in order to improve his DCV). AHD rolls three dice. Assuming no 18, the attack hits. This is true whether the invisibility is due to the Invisibility power or a result of AHD being unable to perceive BF due to a Flash, Darkness, darkness, or whatever the case.

7) BF decides to Missile Deflect (or Reflect) the attack. The Missile Deflect roll is made against AHD's OCV as usual. If BF fails to deflect the attack, AHD rolls again and (assuming no 18) the attack hits.

8) BF decides to Dodge. AHD rolls three dice. Assuming no 18, the attack hits.

9) BF decides to Dive for Cover behind a nearby wall. The Dive for Cover is successful. AHD cannot hit.

10) BF decides to Dive for Cover behind a nearby wall. The Dive for Cover is unsuccessful. AHD rolls three dice. Assuming no 18, the attack hits.

11) BF isn't actually there. AHD has been fooled by an illusion. AHD rolls three dice and misses. This might very well tell AHD that the target was an illusion...

12) This is a game that uses hit locations. AHD rolls three dice. Assuming no 18, the attack hits. Now AHD rolls three dice to determine hit location. AHD cannot ever make a called shot with this power unless the GM deems that to be dramatically appropriate.

13) BF is wearing sectional armor. AHD rolls three dice. Assuming no 18, the attack hits. Now AHD rolls three dice to determine hit location. AHD cannot ever call for the shot to hit an unarmored location unless the GM deems that to be dramatically appropriate.

14) BF has a friend who leaps in front of the attack. Assuming that the friend successfully rolls to leap in front of the attack, the friend takes the hit. AHD does not have to roll to hit at all.

 

To reply to a couple of other situations BNakagawa brought up, an Energy Blast with Always Hits could be bounced or spread as normal. Was there a specific worry you had about those functions?

 

Note also that when applying Always Hits to a power that is used Hand-to-Hand, Block would take the place of Missile Deflect in the numbered list above.

 

Naturally one must beware Advantage stacking or combining this Advantage with Martial Arts. But that's normal for HERO Advantages.

 

I'm not sure if the cost (a +1 Advantage) is correct. But the only way to find out is through game play. It seems right to me at first glance.

 

This Advantage suggests others:

Attack Versus Limited CV: Perhaps allowing the attack to work against only a portion of the target's CV. Only versus natural CV, for example. Only versus CV derived from Combat Skill Levels. Or some such.

CV Piercing: Perhaps allowing the attack to work versus half the target's normal CV.

[Force]

Re: New Advangtage: Always Hits

 

Years ago I was asked by a player about this.

 

"How much would it cost to always hit?"

 

I replied, "Twenty bucks a week."

 

And this is why you are Supreme.

 

Rep'ed.

[Sean Waters]

Re: New Advangtage: Always Hits

 

OK, let us for a moment assume that we are going to allow this power in CTaylor's game, what should the cost be and what should the ruels governing it be?

 

I'd suggest we call it 'not normally Avoidable' (NNA), charge +1 and require a reasonably common circumstance in which it does not work automatically, or a reasonably common sfx against which it does not work. The 'base' circumstance would be that the target successfully missile deflects, or the target dives for cover from the target hex (or target area if it is also AoE).

 

I personally would not require a roll, so I would not want a 'miss on an 18' (it is very rare and just aggravating to have to roll for that 1 in 216 chance).

 

For autofire attacks, only the first attack automatically hits, the rest as for rolls, but you can buy the power at +1/4 to have a larger number of automatic hits - each +1/4 doubles the automatic hits.

 

The target has to be perceiveable with a targetting sense, or on a PER roll (at the appropriate penalty) with a non-targetting sense before they can be 'automatically hit'.

 

You do not normally need to roll 'to hit' unless the target is missile deflecting (for the purpose of seeing if the attempt works - if it doesn't and the roll to hit indicates a miss, it hits anyway) or for autofire attacks.

 

How does that look?

[Sean Waters]

Re: New Advangtage: Always Hits

 

..................

To reply to a couple of other situations BNakagawa brought up, an Energy Blast with Always Hits could be bounced or spread as normal. Was there a specific worry you had about those functions?

 

Note also that when applying Always Hits to a power that is used Hand-to-Hand, Block would take the place of Missile Deflect in the numbered list above.

 

Naturally one must beware Advantage stacking or combining this Advantage with Martial Arts. But that's normal for HERO Advantages.

 

................

 

 

Point....bouncing allows you to circumvent some obstacles, and allowing 'automatic bouncing' would be to give the power indirect for free.

 

Mechanically, however, bouncing does not do anything more than give you a +1 to +3 surprise bonus, so I would not allow you to circumvent full cover but I would allow you to ciucumvent anything UP TO full cover. The OCV bonus is irrelevant if the attack hits anyway.

 

Spreading allows you to hit multiple targets at a damage penalty (you would never need to spead to hit a single target). I'd rule that (unless you bought the multiple targets advantage I suggested above) you only hit one target automatically and any other hits are determined by a normal roll.

 

Hit locations: either roll randomly or accept a 'standard' multiplier (x1, x3). You can 'call the shot' but it does not ahve any additional effect unless you roll randomly.

[Diamond Spear]

Re: New Advangtage: Always Hits

 

The hero system does not deal in absolutes, so this mechanic does not work well with the existing structures.

 

Using a structure like this calls into question other problems.

 

I have yet to see a mechanism for resolving how this power interacts with missile deflect and/or missile reflection.

 

How do you resolve this power when you are firing at an invisible opponent?

 

How do you resolve this power when you are firing at an opponent that isn't actually there? (e.g. you are fooled by an image or mental illusion)

 

How do you resolve this power when you are firing at an unseen (e.g. targets under cover of darkness or illusion) enemy or multiple enemies?

 

How do you resolve this power when you are firing at an unseen (again, targets under cover of darkness, illusion, under a camo net) group of potential targets, some of which are enemies and some of which are human shields?

 

How do you propose to use this power in games which use hit locations? Do I get automatic head shots every time?

 

How do you propose to use this power in games with sectional armor? Can you hit unarmored locations automatically?

 

can somebody other than the intended target DFC in front to take the hit from this power?

 

can you bounce an attack that always hits?

 

can you spread an attack that always hits?

 

can you use ranged martial arts with attacks that always hit?

(because if you can, then I'm just buying a few dice of attack and a bunch of martial arts damage classes)

 

Have all of these questions been answered yet?

[Sean Waters]

Re: New Advangtage: Always Hits

 

Well, I can have a go (at least this is how I'd answer them)

 

 

 

I have yet to see a mechanism for resolving how this power interacts with missile deflect and/or missile reflection.

 

Roll to hit normally, and resolve the deflection attempt normally (assuming that the sfx allow missile deflection to avoid). If the missile deflection works, the attack misses. If it fails, the attack hits - even if the roll would not have been good enough to hit.

 

How do you resolve this power when you are firing at an invisible opponent?

 

You have to aim to hit. If you do not know where you are aiming, you can't hit. You need to be able to perceive the target with a targetting sense or with an appropriate roll with a non-targetting sense. Otherwise you can just designate a target you can see and the GM can decide if you hit purely by chance.

 

How do you resolve this power when you are firing at an opponent that isn't actually there? (e.g. you are fooled by an image or mental illusion)

 

You hit what you aim for. if that is an illusion, you hit it, but obviously cause no damage. The advantage assumes you will designate a target, it is not a 'Hit the nearest enemy' power.

 

How do you resolve this power when you are firing at an unseen (e.g. targets under cover of darkness or illusion) enemy or multiple enemies?

 

Targets under cover of less than 100% are treated as if invisible (see above) - you have to eb able to target them. Of course if the only place the target COULD be hidden is behind a paper screen barely large enough to conceal them, you can target the screen and 'blow through'. Targets with less than 100% cover i.e. targets you can see a bit of, are treated as if they had no cover (but you can only hit the bits you can see, unless you 'blow through' the cover and take a chance that a squishy bit is behind that bit).

 

When there are multiple enemies, you can only hit one automatically, unless you buy an enhanced version of the advantage that enables you to hit more than one automatically (unless you are using an AoE attack in which case the normal rules apply). Each +1/4 on the advantage allows you to automatically hit twice as many targets, assuming that the power would normally let you do so i.e. it is autofire, you are spreading etc.

 

If there are more targets than you can automatically hit you have to roll to hit, and calculate the number of hits normally BUT you automatically hit at least as many as the power allows.

 

 

How do you resolve this power when you are firing at an unseen (again, targets under cover of darkness, illusion, under a camo net) group of potential targets, some of which are enemies and some of which are human shields?

 

Hopefully this is answered by the above points.

 

How do you propose to use this power in games which use hit locations? Do I get automatic head shots every time?

 

You can't get an advantage that you have not paid for. The advantage lets you automatically hit the target, not a specific part of it. If you want to always hit a specific point then you have a number of options, the most straightforward to which is to buy 8 PSLs (v specific targets). This, coupled with the NNA Advantage allows you to hit any part of a target with a OCV penalty of up to -8. If you do not want to spend extra then you either have to roll randomly for damage modifiers, or take a 'standard (x1/x3) modifier. This applies EVEN if yuo can only see the head of the target and therefore automatically hit it - that is just sfx, the damage is determined quite seperately.

 

How do you propose to use this power in games with sectional armor? Can you hit unarmored locations automatically?

 

Again this should be answered by the above.

 

can somebody other than the intended target DFC in front to take the hit from this power?

 

That is a matter for sfx interaction, but I would say that, as a 'standard' defence, yes - dive for cover allows you to avoid the hit, so it would allow you to take the hit in the stead of the target.

 

can you bounce an attack that always hits?

 

Yes, but it is (almost) pointless. Looking at 'bounce' in the book, mechanically it allows you to get a surprise bonus to OCV, and possibly avoid concealment. You cannot (see above) overcome 100% concealment with NNA, but anything lese you can overcome without needing to bounce, and an OCV bonus is irrelevant. This must not be used to get 'indirect' for free: if you want to bounce an atatck, you still need levels to devote to each 'bounce', just as the rules require.

 

can you spread an attack that always hits?

 

Yes. It is pointless to spread to hit a single target - you will hit anyway - and with multiple targets you only automatically hit the number of times you have bounght the power to automatically hit - everything else is diced for.

 

can you use ranged martial arts with attacks that always hit?

(because if you can, then I'm just buying a few dice of attack and a bunch of martial arts damage classes)

 

There's nothing to stop you doing this, but it may well be seen as abusive as some martial arts manouvres come with OCV penalties, which are not really penalties if you always hit, so a GM may disallow those manouvres, or require you to pay mroe for them if they always hit.

 

Bear in mind that if you want to always hit with a melee attack to which you are adding strength, you will need to buy this advantage for your strength too.

 

One point does occur to me - this advantage effectively removes range penalties. LOS is normally a +1/2 advantage and is effectively incorporated int his advantage. Bear in mind you still need to perceive the target so a PER roll may be required to target something that is hidden or otherwise difficult to percieve. I'm not particularly inclined to increase the cost ebcause of teh 'no range penalty' thing, but it is a point to consider if you allow this advantage.

[pinecone]

Re: New Advangtage: Always Hits

 

ALWAYS HITS: A power with this advantage requires no to hit roll, it always lands on the target. Powers bought with Always Hits do no Body damage by default (but can be bought to do Body damage with the advantage Does Body). Each power purchased with Always Hits must have a way that the victims can avoid being hit. For example, a Magical Bolt might always land unless the character has silver on them, or a magnetic charge might always hit unless the character is wearing no metal whatsoever. The GM must approve all such powers, as this can be a very potent advantage.

 

Always hits still suffers from the normal restrictions of the power it is bought for, if it is bought on a mental power, then it still requires Line of Sight, if it does stun damage, it will have no effect on an automoton that takes no stun, if it is bought on a normal energy blast, it has its normal range and will not strike a target that is completely concealed behind a barrier. Always Hits is not Indirect, it does not ignore barriers or line of sight. Normal defenses still apply, and when the character is hit, hit locations are determined (if any) and defenses apply as usual. This can be a very dangerous power if bought with certain advantages, such as NND and Autofire. Powers with this advantage are considered special attacks - thus autofire and Reduced END are increased in cost.

 

EXAMPLE: Poignard, lovely ballerina turned superheroine, can throw light-daggers at her targets, that never miss! However, they have no effect on soulless constructs and robots. If her target ducks behind a wall or is too far away, the attack misses as well, but otherwise they are absolutely unerring in their accuracy.

 

Always Hits: +1 Advantage

 

This would have a hefty stop sign next to it in the rules, but seems like a reasonable construct, an analogue to No Normal Defense.

Don't like it...if somebody wants something like that I'd suggest AE:1 hex;accurate...hitting vs DCV 3 is practally a never miss...and avoids issues like diving for cover....