Politics or not

[Certified]

Re: Politics or not

 

When I think of politics in a game environment it's less about the people or the parties and more about having ambiguous goals where things are rarely clear cut, even if they appear that way at first, and victories lead to other complications. If you take one path you will achieve X but as a result Y witch is equally as a bad also happens. It's the classic do you save the girl or the buss full of children scenario except with politics you are able to remove the Superpowers or turn them into a hindrance as they try and plot a course through a very gray scenario.

 

Used sparingly these elements can add depth to two dimensional playing and help fully flesh out a character in a world where they are often only defined by their powers and looks. Used to often and players can become frustrated and jaded. Politics and politicking although it can be a fun change I don't believe should be the core driver for a game unless it's clear from the onset.

 

That and well it's just more fun to blast the bad guy sometimes than have to worry that the public attack dog show they run will have a field day smearing you and turning you into the criminal by popular opinion.

[Guest steamteck]

Re: Politics or not

 

I like to run Four Color supers in Hudson City. I usually use fictional politics as plot drivers.

 

I absolutely refuse to allow "real world" politics to infect any of my games.

 

 

Exactly no real world stand-ins even. My bunch runs from arch conservative to extremely liberal so we steer clear.

[Certified]

Re: Politics or not

 

Exactly no real world stand-ins even. My bunch runs from arch conservative to extremely liberal so we steer clear.

 

The Arch Conservative and the Extreme Liberal.

 

A Crime fighting duo born of passions and politics. They may debate the methods but they get the job done.

 

Coming soon to theaters everywhere.

[Zane_Marlowe]

Re: Politics or not

 

My group is primarily composed of my fellow ph.d students in a program that specializes in political philosophy. Two of us are rather conservative, two or three more at least are fairly liberal, but everyone does pretty well. Why? Because incorporating politics into a game adds depth (as a previous poster commented) and stakes for the general public. The danger is that you can get preachy if you try to characterize political realities as the GM rather than letting your NPCs (or other players) do it for you. If the GM is the one telling you that everyone on welfare is a junkie or (to swing the other way) that every corporation employs illicit means to gain and keep competitive advantage in the market, then that judgment is now written into the world, and you lose the relevant political verisimilitude in those players who don't agree with the GM's view. If, on the other hand, you invest those views in the mouth of a well-placed NPC (say a social worker who has wide experience with the welfare population, or an experienced forensic accountant employed by law enforcement), then players can still enjoy the world, even if they don't like that NPC's take on it.

[Darkfire]

Re: Politics or not

 

All of the Games I GM feature politics and Economics, my players either ignore it or active immerse them themselves in political events. I use my NPCs to present different viewpoints along with the campaign newspaper which mixes real world news with campaign events.

As a player I enjoy politics and thinks it enriches any game world so I always try to explore the campaign's political issues. However if the GM just doesn't want to deal with it I'll drop it. I've found that most GMs and players enjoy further developing their world, particularly when a player can directly and lastingly affect the game world. Players like being able to say "see that charity I founded it" or "that registration act, I argued before a congressional committee and helped defeat it." Politics also make a nice change form battling the supervillian of the week.

[nexus]

Re: Politics or not

 

.

I think these days mixing politics and gaming is a dangerous mix. It can be so dividing and you have to work to have a balance. Has anyone taken an inventory of the NPCs in the Champions books to see which side has more bad guys? Maybe it's me, but the left seems to be over-represented.

 

I haven't noticed in Champions but Dark Champions, for example Hudson: Urban Abyss democrats to seem to be corrupt, incompetent or both more often than not.

 

I don't think anything can be totally free of politics. If you're lucky you're group is in general agreement in which case you'll likely never notice or you can be very diligent so it never gets hamfisted. It can be a real powder keg and I try to avoid it but sometimes it creeps in mostly entirely unintentionally and things often go "Boom."

[Trebuchet]

Re: Politics or not

 

I haven't noticed in Champions but Dark Champions' date=' for example Hudson: Urban Abyss democrats to seem to be corrupt, incompetent or both more often than not.[/quote']I got the impression in Hudson City: The Urban Abyss it's more a matter of almost all politicians being corrupt and/or incompetent than that it was a matter of singling out the Democrats. Even IRL New Jersey is famous for the level of corruption in its government. I think HC:TUA was just trying to reflect that reality.

[nexus]

Re: Politics or not

 

I got the impression in Hudson City: The Urban Abyss it's more a matter of almost all politicians being corrupt and/or incompetent than that it was a matter of singling out the Democrats. Even IRL New Jersey is famous for the level of corruption in its government. I think HC:TUA was just trying to reflect that reality.

 

That is not the impression I received. You're presented with at least few hard working, dedicated, etc, Republican and conservative figures and several corrupt or foolish (though pershaps well meaning) Democrats and liberals. It's nothing so blatant as a black and white divide but it seems slanted. YMMV, of course.

[megaplayboy]

Re: Politics or not

 

The United States of the Americas(100 states, including North America, Central America, South America and the Caribbean) in my campaign has 300 Senators and 1200 Representatives. The President is a paranormal military vet with a cyborg eye and arm. There are 3 major political parties, and they are each based around a core precept.

The Liberty Party is based around maximizing personal freedom, The Equality Party is based around treating everyone equally under the law, and the Security Party is based around keeping the country and the citizens safe and secure. "Liberal" and "conservative" would be considered meaningless, outdated terms in this world.

There are 12 major nation-states in the setting, and they are all members of an organization called the WorldLeague. 3 of the nations are fascist, 2 are parliamentary democracies, 2 are federal democratic republics, 1 is a constitutional empire with an elected legislature, 1 is a "corporate democracy" where all citizens are shareholders, 1 is a "cyber democracy" where all citizens participate in major decision-making and dedicated civil servants carry out policy, 1 is a traditional monarchy with some elements of Athenian-style democracy, and 1 is pretty close to an anarchic state.

 

WRT to supers, the Liberty Party believes they should be able to fight crime without an extensive licensing process, the Equality Party believes they shouldn't be discriminated against but also shouldn't be discriminated for(IOW, shouldn't be exempt from legal expectations/liability just because they're superhuman), and the Security Party believes that superheroes are valued members of society but that the licensing process should be extensive and demanding, and that deep background checks should be required of any licensed hero or group who contracts with the local, state or federal government.

[Trebuchet]

Re: Politics or not

 

That is not the impression I received. You're presented with at least few hard working' date=' dedicated, etc, Republican and conservative figures and several corrupt or foolish (though pershaps well meaning) Democrats and liberals. It's nothing so blatant as a black and white divide but it seems slanted. YMMV, of course.[/quote']Well, it may simply be that since my own politics lean right I'm not as sensitive to negative portrayals of the left.

 

In our Hudson City-based DC campaign we've totally ignored the political aspects thus far. We simply assume that most politicians and law enforcement officials are corrupt and/or incompetent regardless of political affiliation. It seems to work. After all, nobody ever knew the political affiliation of Gotham City's Commissioner James Gordon either.

[Arkham]

Re: Politics or not

 

I rarely touch on politics in the games I run. The most political event was when Dr. Martini, a Lex Luthor class villain became the Governor of California. He stepped down after being apparantly 'kidnapped' when he evidently went crazy and attacked San Francisco. But it was evidently a clone of him. Really. ~trust me~

 

Currently he's looking at a shot at the White House in 2008.

[Supreme Serpent]

Re: Politics or not

 

Politicians and government are involved, politics itself usually not. When you have some villain trying to take over the city/state/nation/world you can hardly ignore the government & officials. But I'm not going to put a debate about abortion or the fair tax into a superhero story.

 

Over the years I've done some 'ripped from the headlines' storylines that involved political events and politicians, like the California recall election where Deathstroke had mind controlled a number of the candidates in order to have a puppet governor. It was fun having the hero team pile into Ahnold's Hummer to race off to save Larry Flint and Gary Coleman.

[assault]

Re: Politics or not

 

That is not the impression I received. You're presented with at least few hard working' date=' dedicated, etc, Republican and conservative figures and several corrupt or foolish (though pershaps well meaning) Democrats and liberals. It's nothing so blatant as a black and white divide but it seems slanted. YMMV, of course.[/quote']

 

In a weird way, this would almost be appropriate. After all, political machines of the Tammany Hall or Mayor Daley type are pretty much mandatory in a Dark Champions setting. Furthermore, at least some relatively honest opponents are necessary too. "At least some", of course. Opponents who are corrupt and/or incompetent should exist too.

 

For better or worse, the classic examples of Big City Machines were Democrats. Conservative Democrats, but Democrats.

[psychonaut_raz]

Re: Politics or not

 

Politics doesn't really interest me either as a player or a GM, so I tend to gloss over it as much as possible....maybe the odd storyline every now and then, but it's not at all something I'd call a recurring theme in my games..

[David Blue]

Re: Politics or not

 

In Psi High, we recently had a short but in my opinion funny political sub-plot.

 

Simon, a good guy bitterly disappointed in love, resolved to forsake love and instead embrace the evil power of politics. He began his ascent to dark and loveless omnipotence by running for high school president, and to fit himself with a false personality to facilitate his career, he consulted his two remaining friends on what they wanted in a politician.

 

As it happened, these friends were Tamara, a gun-crazy conservative with a habit of wearing pro Second Amendment message T-shirts, and her new boyfriend, a warm fan of Dick Cheney. Simon heard his friends out politely, and then (for other reasons as well), instead of remaking himself as the kind of guy they wanted to vote for, he fled the country and returned to Japan, thus exiting the campaign.

 

"Sell my soul for power" is abstract. "100% conservative voting record" with specific issues mentioned and Dick Cheney as the model to aspire to was horrifyingly specific.

 

-

 

In my experience, politics doesn't work out well in superhero games unless it's as light and easy as what you might get in a situation comedy, or unless you play solidly to superhero conventions, like a race for district attourney where one of the candidates is not just wrong but secretly a mob boss or something like that.

 

If you're going to go all Bronze Age, tell your players up front that this is what you'll be doing, and that the politics reflect the comics you have in mind and not anything in the real world.

 

And if works best best if you catch and kill your own, with conservatives mocking conservatives (or at least playing them broadly, as in the example above) and liberals mocking liberals.

 

-

 

Two things I would steer way clear of: the topic of abortion, and (unconsiously) letting a plot depend on a political assumption that not everyone may agree on.

 

A friend, a very good gamemaster whose great strength was making up plots, devised a "ghosts of vengeance" plot where what looked at first like a "normal" series of superpowered slayings was really the work of the ghosts of every human being that had ever died at an abortion clinic that had been running for many years. These ghosts were an abortionist that had recently been killed by a pro-lifer, and I think three (or possibly just two, three total?) other noble pro-choice workers who had been killed over the years, and whose "accidental" deaths had not really been accidental but caused by malicious anti-abortion agitators. It would not be possible to defeat the angry spirits of justice, but it was possible to stop them, that is to lay the ghosts by bringing out the truth, by seeing that all those guilty of killing at that location were properly punished, and by reassuring the spirits of the righteous departed that their good work would go on.

 

The scenario was intended partly to do something a bit different while being as fair as possible to both sides in the abortion debate, with the heroes playing the "middle" role of peacemakers, preventing unlimited vengeance against bigoted pro-lifers. In the end, ideally, every player would finish the scenario feeling happy or at least satisfied - but thoughtful.

 

I had to point out very gently certain flaws in this scenario, the first of which was that the critical supernatural clues about how all the slain were rising and all the blood shed must be answered for were either incomprehensible or misleading unless you held the proper assumptions. If you thought that only one human being had ever been killed at the clinic, the abortionist recently slain, then the clues led you to discover that there had been two or three other innocent victims crying out for vengeance, and then you could solve the plot. If you held another assumption about what happens at an abortion clinic, the clues were either incomprehensible in context (where nothing corresponding to what you would expect to happen ever happened) or else they pointed to a supernatural and therefore false explanation for the recent murder.

 

In effect, you could only do the adventure by agreeing with the gamemaster's beliefs, and if you didn't realize you had to do that, and if you didn't simply share his assumptions, you would fail.

 

Scenarios like this will not help your game or your gaming group.

[David Blue]

Re: Politics or not

 

It is fatally easy, once you start mingling controversial political and moral issues with superhero plots, to make doing the scenario successfully or just playing your genius character as "smart" depend on agreeing with the gamemaster.

 

This isn't so bad (though it can still be annoying) when the writer of a comic controls both the plot that's intended to teach the readers a moral lesson and the designated smart character who will solve the problem in the proper way and perhaps spell out the lesson. But in a game it can work out very badly indeed.

[Spence]

Re: Politics or not

 

But in a game it can work out very badly indeed.

 

Tad bit of an understatement there But IMO you are 100% correct.

 

One of the reasons I try to run the majority of my worlds in black and white tones versus grey.

 

If I want the real world and politics I can turn on the TV.

 

If I want fun, then I need to do something different.

[David Blue]

Re: Politics or not

 

In fairness, there was more to the scenario than described - like ongoing killings and enough supernatural vengeance to keep a group of heroes busy - and this was a long time ago and I'm shaky on some details as the number of victims shows, and the gamemaster did decide to abandon that scenario. In other words, apart from the central problem, this was a good piece of plotting, and the gamemaster also showed good judgment in letting it go. On both counts, well done.

 

But the central problem - that the scenario made no sense and was even insoluble unless you shared the scenario designer's assumptions - was as described.

[Nightfire]

Re: Politics or not

 

My campaign world no longer resembles the real world at all. There are only six super nations and some holdouts: The USAC (United States and Canada) which controls the Carribbean and all Pacific Islands held by the US), The Asian Commonwealth, European Union, United Federation of the Southern Hemisphere, Russia and the Kingdoms of Magic.

 

These supernations came about by the actions of the players/GM interference in various politics, six alien invasions, a world wide technology crash (not the Y2K bug), and manueverings during the reconstruction. Sometimes politics were neglible background, and other times center stage. I never did powered registration plot lines, because superpowers and magic had been around since the dawn of history and so most countries legislated their penalties for their misuse in ancient times into the present.

 

The complexities of these politics are too numerous to list, and as players characters matured they even too on political roles. Twice now PC have run in the 2000 and 2004 presidential elections and while they have not won they have won Senatorial and Governor positions, or have been appointed to cabinet posts. The EU is entirely PC controlled having though the course of play returned to Constitutional Monarchies. There are even complex interactions between nations and various alien races.

 

I think that if the GM and Players are mature about it politics can completely enrich a game, providing lots of plot lines, of course if not done properly it could be a disaster.

 

[Hermit]

Re: Politics or not

 

In game, don't bring up politics much, it can get dull for the players, or sidetrack a game into a long debate, though it can be amusing if two players want to play some sort of Green Lantern/Green Arrow friendship. Mostly, Politics, when I use it, is something that happens to the PCs, not something the PCs want to get involved in.

 

If some new candidate for mayor swears to hold superheroes accountable as a campaign pledge, the PCs might get understandably worried, and their actions in game as heroes can have an influence on the election. If said Candidate is actually taking money from VIPER and the PCs expose it he's out, or the Candidate is actually a decent guy who the heroes end up saving and get a chance to talk to he might soften his stance. Etc.

 

As for party affiliation, when I think about it at all, I try to balance it out. Maybe in the above scenario the candidate is a democrat, but there's another guy in the same party who believes the civil liberties of the heroes must be protected. Two conservative republicans are not going to see eye to eye on everything in real life, and I try to reflect that in game by making sure there's another NPC out there who helps offset.

 

I rarely use Fictional parties, but I must admit, this thread has me thinking of doing just that.

[Silverswirl]

Re: Politics or not

 

Some very interesting political scenarios (six super nations) the one with three political parties (Liberty, Equality, and Security). This kind of world-building can be fun.

 

Blade once masqueraded as a liberal, making a very convincing speech, but his own political leanings tended to be more libertarian. Disguise was one of his skills, so he was able to pull things off with panache. The character he was playing was an out-of-town activist, and after the appearance, he disappeared.