THE ULTIMATE BASE -- What Do *You* Want To See?

[Sociotard]

Re: THE ULTIMATE BASE -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

The problem with Summon is that it requires the slavishly devoted advantage, and that makes the whole thing too expensive to be worth it.

[Edsel]

Re: THE ULTIMATE BASE -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Since our group has been designing a base for a Champions campaign one thing that we have struggled with, a little bit, is staffing. I would like to see a discussion of what sorts of staff positions are necessary to run a base whether it be a superhero hang out or a fantasy castle. Let's see... you need a cook, a receptionist, a housekeeper, etc... That sort of thing. For a castle you need a steward, a stable master, scullery maids, etc.

[Marcus Impudite]

Re: THE ULTIMATE BASE -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

The problem with Summon is that it requires the slavishly devoted advantage' date=' and that makes the whole thing too expensive to be worth it.[/quote']

Granted, the slavishly devoted Ad is a must, but it may not come out quite as expensive as you think. The Tabernacle was really just a big fancy tent to meet in so the "walls" wouldn't need a whole lot in the way of BODY/DEF (you could probably get away with not even buying those up, infact). Mostly you'd just be paying for the Size of it. The Location thing is something you could probably even convince the GM to Handwave since it wouldn't be a truly permanent structure.

[Sociotard]

Re: THE ULTIMATE BASE -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Maybe. I'd still rather have "Can be disassembled/reassembled" as a new location modifier.

[JmOz]

Re: THE ULTIMATE BASE -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I personaly have droped the slavishly loyal advantage. When you think about it bases (and vehicles) are pretty much neutral. Having said that I use the slavishly loyal advantage to represent how tough security is...

[AlexShinjo]

Re: THE ULTIMATE BASE -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I'm not sure if this has been addressed yet or not but I would like to see a little more indepth information for AI/Computers that run the bases.

[BobGreenwade]

Re: THE ULTIMATE BASE -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Maybe. I'd still rather have "Can be disassembled/reassembled" as a new location modifier.

This works not only for the Tabernacle' date=' but for the base in the [i']Phule's Company[/i] books (which I mentioned early on).

[Sociotard]

Re: THE ULTIMATE BASE -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

If it hasn't been mentioned, a survival shelter, with options to scale it to a few sizes. That way it could be adapted to a specially outfitted den in in a 1950's suburban basement, a paramilitary bunker, or a wealthy paranoid man's underground shelter.

[Sean Waters]

Re: THE ULTIMATE BASE -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Why have bases?

 

Well, it seems that having a base of your own is probably quite cool, but mainly, in play, is a resource centre, for most campaigns, allowing you to access information, provide healing and change VPPs. In most games you're not going to be seeing too much action in your own base, although there will be notable exceptions.

 

An enemy base is something that the players are going to see a lot of, and should therefore be first and foremost, interesting to assault or infiltrate.

 

It would be nice to see some commentary, maybe even a chapter, on building bases that are practical for these purposes. It is easy to load an enemy base with deathtraps and sensors, but the reason you are building it is so that the players have fun getting in there (or out if they have been captured).

 

Base construction should be logical (generally you won't want sensors and weapons controls in rooms on opposite sides of the base) because daft design spoils the look and feel of a game.

 

Perhaps something on look and feel would be nice: a villain base could be a purpose built shiny thing or a broken down warehouse hastily converted for a specific job. Good to cover some of those areas.

 

I've mentioned traps and they can be a great part of a base (especially in a fantasy setting) so some coverage of how to build and incoprorate them would be nice. That might be in chapter 8 already.

 

Despite not worrying too much about realism, every base should incorporate at least one latrine. There is nothing that grounds players quite so much as finding the john. It helps them to overlook all kinds of other design inadequacies.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: THE ULTIMATE BASE -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Perhaps a few more examples of how to designate and cost features that only apply to certain sections of a base, e.g. extra DEF for walls and doors for just the most sensitive areas; sensors and weapons that only cover part of the base; or Life Support in specific rooms such as laboratories, emergency shelters or exotic-lifeform environments.

[Lucius]

Re: THE ULTIMATE BASE -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I've mentioned traps and they can be a great part of a base (especially in a fantasy setting) so some coverage of how to build and incoprorate them would be nice. That might be in chapter 8 already.

 

I agree about traps, and not just comic book deathtraps, but just suggestions on how to implement simple low tech type traps and snares.

 

Something like the old Tricks and Traps in the D&D DM's guide but more "realistic" and well thought out and better - as we expect from the Hero System!

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary, in a burst of enthusiasm, declares that there is no better role playing system.

[Sociotard]

Re: THE ULTIMATE BASE -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

A sidebar of a dozen entrances to secret passageways.

 

A speakeasy, for pulp games.

[Charlon]

Re: THE ULTIMATE BASE -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Something I'd like to see (although this may have been mentioned before) is an example of a truly cosmic or grand base/locale. One is really all you'd probably want to show for maybe more galactic level settings. Possibly something like a meeting point between dimensions (for 'planeswalking' campaigns) or even an existential nexus. As to the latter a certain tower comes to mind

[Guest steamteck]

Re: THE ULTIMATE BASE -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I'm really looking forward to this. Its the one guaranteed immediate buy for me! Great basic stuff that can be used with any campaign run by someone compulsive like me!

[Spence]

Re: THE ULTIMATE BASE -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

 

I've mentioned traps and they can be a great part of a base (especially in a fantasy setting) so some coverage of how to build and incoprorate them would be nice.

 

 

I agree about traps, and not just comic book deathtraps, but just suggestions on how to implement simple low tech type traps and snares.

 

Something like the old Tricks and Traps in the D&D DM's guide but more "realistic" and well thought out and better - as we expect from the Hero System!

 

And not just fantasy setting type traps. Please please please please remember there is more than just sword swinging settings out there. Fantasy settings are a dime for 20 billion. But usable information for Pulp, Modern, Espionage and Supers is pretty sparse.

 

Also, while it has already been mentioned several times by other people but I think it should be emphasized. There should be a mention of minimum required 'stuff'. As SW pointed out, all 'modern' bases should have at least one toilet. But to add more of an authentic feel, just what is normal for a given time period? If you go to an isolated military base today they will have male and female restrooms and facilities. Go to the same base in 1970 or earlier and they most likely will not have any facilities with women in mind. Just what type of restroom or equivalent would be in a military fortress turned headquarters for 1920's pirates in the South China Sea?

 

Sure, those kinds of details may not be critical, buy can add a undeniable feel for time and setting.

[Steve Long]

Re: THE ULTIMATE BASE -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

We've already got 22,000 words' worth of traps for every time period and genre in The Ultimate Skill. I might reprint one or two, but that's it; otherwise I'm simply referring to what's already in print.

[Guest steamteck]

Re: THE ULTIMATE BASE -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

We've already got 22' date='000 words' worth of traps for every time period and genre in [i']The Ultimate Skill.[/i] I might reprint one or two, but that's it; otherwise I'm simply referring to what's already in print.

 

I just ordered that from you! Now I'm really hyped!

[Steve Long]

Re: THE ULTIMATE BASE -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Cool -- just check under "Security Systems." It's the longest Skill write-up in the book. Though to be fair, it's less "traps" per se than "security systems" in general. But either way, the PCs are in trouble.

 

Overall I think TUS is one of our Top 5 books to date in the "DOJ Era," so I hope you'll enjoy it and find it useful.

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: THE ULTIMATE BASE -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Also' date=' while it has already been mentioned several times by other people but I think it should be emphasized. There should be a mention of minimum required 'stuff'. As SW pointed out, all 'modern' bases should have at least one toilet. But to add more of an authentic feel, just what is normal for a given time period? If you go to an isolated military base today they will have male and female restrooms and facilities. Go to the same base in 1970 or earlier and they most likely will not have any facilities with women in mind. Just what type of restroom or equivalent would be in a military fortress turned headquarters for 1920's pirates in the South China Sea?[/quote']

I have to disagree. I don't want to see space in this book devoted to bathrooms and other stuff that doesn't affect the game. As I've said many times before, a base should be built on its game-useful content, not on its total floor space. Bathrooms, hallways, and other mundane stuff like that shouldn't cost character points. Likewise, labs and other actually useful base-stuff should have a price based on what they *do*, not on how big they are. A Criminology lab that gives a 17- roll should cost the same regardless of whether it's 100 square feet or 1000 square feet. Paying extra for more floor space in a base is like paying extra for brighter colors on your costume. An ordinary livingroom with a big-screen tv in it is not an essential "base element" - it's just the same as what might be in an ordinary house. Same goes for bathrooms, hallways, bedrooms, and anything else that doesn't contribute any powers, skills, etc.

[Spence]

Re: THE ULTIMATE BASE -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I have to disagree. I don't want to see space in this book devoted to bathrooms and other stuff that doesn't affect the game. As I've said many times before' date=' a base should be built on its game-useful content, not on its total floor space. Bathrooms, hallways, and other mundane stuff like that shouldn't cost character points. Likewise, labs and other actually useful base-stuff should have a price based on what they *do*, not on how big they are. A Criminology lab that gives a 17- roll should cost the same regardless of whether it's 100 square feet or 1000 square feet. Paying extra for more floor space in a base is like paying extra for brighter colors on your costume. An ordinary livingroom with a big-screen tv in it is not an essential "base element" - it's just the same as what might be in an ordinary house. Same goes for bathrooms, hallways, bedrooms, and anything else that doesn't contribute any powers, skills, etc.[/quote']

 

??

 

You completely miss the entire meaning of the post. Sort of like not being able to see the forest because all those darn trees are in the way. I used the example of a toilet because it was mentioned and I honestly expected the readers to understand the meaning. If the contents of a base book contain what you just mentioned, then why have one. I already know how to string together game mechanics and make any effect I want.

 

But a Base is not just a string of game mechanics. A base is flavor for a campaign. It’s primary purpose is to represent an important location that the gamers will roleplay in repeatedly. Nothing destroys suspension of belief in a game faster than to have a party of adventurers of the sword swinging spellcasting type walk into a castle and find a bathroom complete with sink. Or, since saying bathroom is like waving a red cape in front of a bull, having a modern investigator in a realistic game stumble across a 13th century torture chamber in local sheriffs office.

 

But the biggest thing that confuses me is how you can get from a request for descriptive information on what would be found in typical ‘bases’ of various types and times, to a sudden need to pay points for costume colors? If the base book is like most of the other similar books, the majority won’t talk about points at all. FH covered a very wide range of related topics on Fantasy World Building without tacking costs for High versus Low fantasy.

 

The entire part where you talk about “Likewise, labs and other actually useful base-stuff should have a price based on what they *do*, not on how big they are.” made me reread the my post to make sure I was using English.

 

I have no understanding why you feel the need to nail point costs to everything. It must be a very drab game to describe everything in pure point speak with no use of plain language description and no color.

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: THE ULTIMATE BASE -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

You completely miss the entire meaning of the post.

I think you've missed the meaning of mine as well. I certainly didn't mean to come across as criticising you or your post, and yes, some of what I wrote wasn't directly related to what you said. It was just my opinions as to how the rules for bases should work.

 

But a Base is not just a string of game mechanics. A base is flavor for a campaign.

I understand that completely. I was just pointing out that you shouldn't have to pay points for "flavor" - that's contrary to the HERO System.

 

It’s primary purpose is to represent an important location that the gamers will roleplay in repeatedly. Nothing destroys suspension of belief in a game faster than to have a party of adventurers of the sword swinging spellcasting type walk into a castle and find a bathroom complete with sink. Or, since saying bathroom is like waving a red cape in front of a bull, having a modern investigator in a realistic game stumble across a 13th century torture chamber in local sheriffs office.

Agreed, but I don't see what that has to do with anything I said.

 

But the biggest thing that confuses me is how you can get from a request for descriptive information on what would be found in typical ‘bases’ of various types and times, to a sudden need to pay points for costume colors?

It confuses me how you can read my post and think that's what I was saying.

 

The entire part where you talk about “Likewise, labs and other actually useful base-stuff should have a price based on what they *do*, not on how big they are.” made me reread the my post to make sure I was using English.

No problem. That part was not specifically related to what you said. I was just using your post as a "jumping-off point" for my thoughts.

 

I have no understanding why you feel the need to nail point costs to everything.

I have no understanding why you feel that I need to nail point costs to everything. That's the exact opposite of what I was saying. You should *not* have to pay points for bathrooms, hallways, floorspace, and mundane, ordinary rooms.

 

It must be a very drab game to describe everything in pure point speak with no use of plain language description and no color.

I quite agree.

[gojira]

Re: THE ULTIMATE BASE -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I don't want to see space in this book devoted to bathrooms and other stuff that doesn't affect the game. As I've said many times before' date=' a base should be built on its game-useful content, not on its total floor space.[/quote']

 

I agree mostly. Bases and gaming should be fun. Designing bathrooms generally ain't my idea of fun. I don't want a dissertation on building ergonomics. I don't want a treatise on architectural design. If it's possible to make a short section on E-Z-Ergonomics fun and interesting to read, then go for it. Otherwise, a short admonishment to keep the base design plausible with hallways and bathrooms should be enough.

 

However, players will find stuff to do with 10,000 square feet that they can't do with 1,000 square feet. A small nominal cost for overall size is OK. Wealth may play some sort of factor here.

 

 

On the accuracy thing though, if it's possible to get plans for a few historical buildings that would be cool. However, I don't know how copyright law works here, and the research for DOJ could be a bear.

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: THE ULTIMATE BASE -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

However' date=' players will find stuff to do with 10,000 square feet that they can't do with 1,000 square feet.[/quote']

If they haven't paid points for it, they shouldn't get any game-useful benefit, for example, a big comfortable living room with a pool table, a ping-pong table, and a foosball table, along with a big-screen TV, and a nice big table and chairs to play HERO Games on is certainly very nice, but it shouldn't cost any points because it doesn't help the characters succeed in the adventure or defeat their opponents.

 

And likewise, if they have paid points for it, it should give them something game-useful, not just floor space, not just room to put toys and recreational fun stuff. You shouldn't have to pay character points for ordinary furniture.

 

A small nominal cost for overall size is OK.

I don't think so. Size by itself doesn't do anything for you. It's just a role-playing/flavor thing. But yes, some guidelines about how much space a 23- Chemistry Lab (or whatever) should realistically take up would be useful. But even in that case, you're paying for the 23- roll, not for the size.

 

Wealth may play some sort of factor here.

Agreed. If Tanya Krats has paid 15 points to be Filthy Rich, it can be assumed that any Base she buys will be especially luxurious and roomy, but that won't give it any special abilities - those still have to be paid for.

[Logan D. Hurricanes]

Re: THE ULTIMATE BASE -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Something that just occurred to me: Who is building these bases?

 

How about some NPC write-ups for the architects and/or designers? Maybe a listing of trusted construction companies.

[kjandreano]

Re: THE ULTIMATE BASE -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I agree mostly. Bases and gaming should be fun. Designing bathrooms generally ain't my idea of fun. I don't want a dissertation on building ergonomics. I don't want a treatise on architectural design. If it's possible to make a short section on E-Z-Ergonomics fun and interesting to read, then go for it. Otherwise, a short admonishment to keep the base design plausible with hallways and bathrooms should be enough.

 

True, but they should be included. I deliberately put things like hallways, closets, and yes, bathrooms in all my base floor plans. I think it is fun to include such details.

 

-Keith