How do mutants work out?

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: How do mutants work out?

 

The problem I'm having is' date=' with a small number of mutants, they're incredibly rare. How are you supposed to have hate groups targeted against them when they make up less than a hundred thousandth of the world's population? And if you make them maybe .2% of the population, that's literally tens of millions of mutants worldwide, which pushes all other supers into a tiny minority.[/quote']

 

Not all mutants need to have superpowers, as many other posters have pointed out.

 

you don't. Marvel had to basically sequester the X-Men to their own quasi universe because they couldn't come up with a good answer, then they decided that ALL superheroes were mistrusted.

 

So...you could always do that.

 

I recall some '70's Avengers where some people were suspicious of the Beast, even though he had an Avengers ID card, since he "might be related to that mutant Beast".

 

Hmm... There have been almost that many mutants in the X-books alone not to mention the ones not identified yet

 

Many existing mutants were depowered by M Day. The Blob has a lot of loose skin now, for example. However, 200 is a number likely to run out fast (now 201, I guess, since they had a big crossover event involving the first mutant birth since M Day).

[Bloodstone]

Re: How do mutants work out?

 

Here's my take on how it works:

 

1) the presence of mutant supremacists of vast power. You pretty much need a Magneto or Appocalypse type to really get the hysteria going IMO.

 

2) The paranoid fear that anyone could be a mutant, even your own children. And you might not even know til they turn into ornery teenagers with laser vision! Most other supers can't just breed with our women to make more of themselves.

 

3) Many mutants have non-combat abilites and/or obvious physical mutations. Makes them easy targets. But even if that wasn't the case, mutants have readily detectable genetic and psychic signatures. As such, there are universal mutant detectors and mutant power dampeners and things like the Legacy Virus and the Cure. What you use to track down and combat a psychic like the Leader probably won't help you when you want to find Spider-man or take out the Juggernaut, but the same thing you use to take out Magneto works just as well on the X-Men.

 

And with all that said, I think it works best in it's own universe like Heroes.

[Bloodstone]

Re: How do mutants work out?

 

Many existing mutants were depowered by M Day. The Blob has a lot of loose skin now' date=' for example. However, 200 is a number likely to run out fast (now 201, I guess, since they had a big crossover event involving the first mutant birth since M Day).[/quote']

 

There are actually supposed to be less than 200 mutants with active X-Genes now though, since several have been killed.

 

There were exactly 198 mutants post M-Day. Then they introduced the 199th mutant, Mutant Zero, who the government has been keeping secret form everyone. The baby from the Messiah complex would have been #200.

 

Of course, this only applies to Earth-616, so even without directly undoing M-Day they have countless dimensions worth of mutants to call upon whenever they want...

[Pattern Ghost]

Re: How do mutants work out?

 

How do mutants work out?

 

Most mutants start out with some light cardio work before a trip to the Danger Room. =P

[CoreBrute]

Re: How do mutants work out?

 

That's not funny.

Do you really think the Blob does/did light cardio?

[SSgt Baloo]

Re: How do mutants work out?

 

Most mutants start out with some light cardio work before a trip to the Danger Room. =P

 

Finally! A reply to the title question! I'd rep you but I'mm out for now.

[Lawnmower Boy]

Re: How do mutants work out?

 

Anti-mutant bigotry??

Oh, come on. Modern society is tolerant and open. Minorities are encouraged to express their uniqueness.

Admittedly, some mutants claim to be discriminated against, that they are less likely to get security clearances and loans, that "out" mutants don't get jobs, or get turned down by good universities. But you have to remember that "mutation" is a complex change of an even more complex thing, the vast DNA blueprint of the human body. Experts say that even minor changes in the genotype can cause mental instability and worse.

 

Not all mutants are emotionally and mentally unstable whiners imagining discrimination where none exists. I'm sure that many are perfectly normal just as there are many mutant psycopaths. But why take a chance? There are schools and communities, that will take mutants in, so that they be with their own kind, and there is less risk of mutant genes spreading. The IHA is doing its best to keep a lid on dangerous mutant "supervillains" and perhaps well-meaning but unstable mutant "superheroes." Someday, society, and regular superheroes will wake up to the threat.

[CoreBrute]

Re: How do mutants work out?

 

We are talking hypotheticly my friend. Mutants don't actually exist. He is asking for a world where society is prejudice and how to express that.

 

This may be the first time I've ever heard someone speak positively of the IHA. A group which, and I quote:

"Regards

mutants as “the single most

dangerous threat to true

humans on this planet today,”

according to their promotional

literature. IHA reports discuss,

in lurid detail, the possibilities of

mutants supplanting true humans, and

then either killing them all or herding them into

“camps” to serve mutantkind as slave labor." p111 of Champions Universe.

 

And if Sharper then a Serpent's tooth has anything to say, they do a good job of imitating the NAZIs. Here from the background of firedrake:

 

 

The IHA abducted him and imprisoned him in a secret concentration camp in the Dakotas. David spent almost a year there. During that time he subjected to numerous tests and cruel experimentats, most of which concentrated on discovering mutant weaknesses for use in minuteman technology.

 

 

Not the most nice people are they? And David was such a nice guy all he did was save a mother and her daughter from a fire with his fire manipulation. He didn't wear spandex or tried to take over the world.

 

Tell me now isn't any Anti-mutant bigotry! Or at least in this made up super world.

Like I said, fiction man.

[JmOz]

Re: How do mutants work out?

 

We are talking hypotheticly my friend. Mutants don't actually exist. He is asking for a world where society is prejudice and how to express that.

 

This may be the first time I've ever heard someone speak positively of the IHA. A group which, and I quote:

"Regards

mutants as “the single most

dangerous threat to true

humans on this planet today,”

according to their promotional

literature. IHA reports discuss,

in lurid detail, the possibilities of

mutants supplanting true humans, and

then either killing them all or herding them into

“camps” to serve mutantkind as slave labor." p111 of Champions Universe.

 

And if Sharper then a Serpent's tooth has anything to say, they do a good job of imitating the NAZIs. Here from the background of firedrake:

 

 

The IHA abducted him and imprisoned him in a secret concentration camp in the Dakotas. David spent almost a year there. During that time he subjected to numerous tests and cruel experimentats, most of which concentrated on discovering mutant weaknesses for use in minuteman technology.

 

 

Not the most nice people are they? And David was such a nice guy all he did was save a mother and her daughter from a fire with his fire manipulation. He didn't wear spandex or tried to take over the world.

 

Tell me now isn't any Anti-mutant bigotry! Or at least in this made up super world.

Like I said, fiction man.

 

I think he knows that, he was (I'm 99.999% sure) speaking "in voice" of a normal citizen of the Champion's world showing how a "normal" person could justify basicaly being a racist while not thinking of themselves as such.

 

Hopefuly I am not misreading some kind of humor and that this post is helpful and does not make me look the fool

[SSgt Baloo]

Re: How do mutants work out?

 

We are talking hypotheticly my friend. Mutants don't actually exist. He is asking for a world where society is prejudice and how to express that.

 

"Whiff!"

[wrestlinggeek]

Re: How do mutants work out?

 

I've always widened the focus and decreased the scope. Meaning that, I always make the prejudice against all super-humans, not just those who happened to be born with their powers, while greatly decreasing the number of people involved in these hate-groups. I've never understood the situation in Marvel comics, where it seems like almost every "normal" human is a member of a radical anti-mutant group, but has no problem with any other type of supers.

[Clonus]

Re: How do mutants work out?

 

I've always widened the focus and decreased the scope. Meaning that' date=' I always make the prejudice against all super-humans, not just those who happened to be born with their powers, while greatly decreasing the number of people involved in these hate-groups. I've never understood the situation in Marvel comics, where it seems like almost every "normal" human is a member of a radical anti-mutant group, but has no problem with any other type of supers.[/quote']

 

What gives you that idea? The Marvel Universe certainly has a problem with androids. People look askance at the monsters produced by the Gamma bomb. Spider-Man's popularity is limited and hard-won. The Fantastic Four saves the world on a regular basis and everyone knows it, but still they have trouble. About the only superhuman who has no public relations problem is Thor.

[Oruncrest]

Re: How do mutants work out?

 

Finally! A reply to the title question! I'd rep you but I'mm out for now.

I got him for 'ya.

[The Weapon]

Re: How do mutants work out?

 

The problem I'm having is' date=' with a small number of mutants, they're incredibly rare. How are you supposed to have hate groups targeted against them when they make up less than a hundred thousandth of the world's population? And if you make them maybe .2% of the population, that's literally tens of millions of mutants worldwide, which pushes all other supers into a tiny minority.[/quote']

 

Why can't there be hate groups against incredibly small populations? I mean if your feelings of fear, powerlessness and disgust are irrational, why would the fact that there isn't a lot of them affect your conclusions? I mean there are less than 5,000 al Quaeda terrorists, that doesn't stop Americans from fearing that they'll destroy the US.

 

The point is that these people are different, and that's a threat to the people who are the same as you. The threat doesn't need to be physically plausible, it's a threat to the social and genetic purity of your community. The presence of the different means that you can't rely on people being the same and thus can't relie on others (or even yourself) remaining the same. The fact that mutations are transmitted to children means that those dirty muties could even worm themselves into your families. And there's going to be more of them if they're not stopped right? Because even if they only have 3 children each with a non-mutant that means that within 8 generations there is 6561 times as many as there are now. Given there powers that's enough to take over the world right*? A group of people who are powerful, not well understood and not like us is the threat. Mere numbers are not important in such a situation.

 

* assuming that mutants both wanted to take over the world and acted as one despite different languages, cultures, economic circumstances, upbringing etc.

[Vulcan]

Re: How do mutants work out?

 

Sure. Vast numbers of reps on 'lift fork'...

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

Re: How do mutants work out?

 

It is essentially a question about power level. If someone has an 'innate power' and no way to explain it -- I mean, Spider Man DID get nailed with 'mutant hysteria' a few times -- they're a mutant. They can glow, they have butterfly wings, they can turn 2D for fifteen seconds, whatever. They are frightening, or at least they weird the normal person out; think of how much attention someone who's just got significant scarring gets.

 

But run the numbers. Make mutation, oh, 1/10th of 1%. Out of 6 billion people, that's 6 million mutants. 95% of the world's mutants are that 'Normal plus 25 points in powers' sort, however -- 5.7 million, scattered across the globe. Out of the 300k left, 95% are the 'Normal + 75' power folk. Out of the 15k left, 5% have some serious combat-use powers; the other 95% are 'rainmakers', people who can do something neat, but don't have the ability to walk into a potentially lethal fight and walk out the other end alive.

 

You're now down to 750 people across the globe with significant power and combat capabilities. Of those 750, you need maybe 50, tops, to band together and start committing terrorist attacks 'in the name of mutantkind' to attract a some of the 15k -- and spook the Normals enough for some of them to KKK and thereby give a bad name to ordinary, decent black people ... err, I mean household mutants.

 

"He can turn paper-thin!! You never know when he'll slide under the door and kill you all in your beds!! Kill him!!!"

*insert mob noises*

[Hyper-Man]

Re: How do mutants work out?

 

re: title of thread

 

A: get a gold membership at their local DangerRooms4U gym.

 

[Korvar]

Re: How do mutants work out?

 

It has always amused me that discussions about anti-mutant hysteria always has people expecting hatred and prejudice to adhere to logic and reason...

[McCoy]

Re: How do mutants work out?

 

It has always amused me that discussions about anti-mutant hysteria always has people expecting hatred and prejudice to adhere to logic and reason...

While the reason for the hatred is irrational, the reaction it causes is somewhat predictable and follows its own logic.

[Shoutybloke]

Re: How do mutants work out?

 

It doesn't matter how many mutants there are. It matters how accurate the IHA mutant detectors are. If they are 99.9% acurate, that means 1 in 1000 people is going to read as a mutant when they are not. And get lynched.

[Clonus]

Re: How do mutants work out?

 

While the reason for the hatred is irrational' date=' the reaction it causes is somewhat predictable and follows its own logic.[/quote']

 

Yes, but all too often people complaining about the mutant thing neglect that logic. For example people who complain about mutants being singled out for special attention by comparison with the freak-accident empowered neglect to consider that the freak accidents have nobody calling them "homo superior" and declaring that it is their destiny to replace humanity. It's the same thing with the mutant lack of numbers. Sure, mutants are less common than the average minority who experience significant hostility, but the average minority who experience significant hostility have nothing but numbers to make them look threatening.

[SSgt Baloo]

Re: How do mutants work out?

 

It doesn't matter how many mutants there are. It matters how accurate the IHA mutant detectors are. If they are 99.9% acurate' date=' that means 1 in 1000 people is going to read as a mutant when they are not. And get lynched.[/quote']

 

If the mutant detectors are even less reliable, there may be even more "false positives". Especially if the people using them think these detectors are "infallible", you have a lot of potential panic in the making. Even if they are aware of the potential for false positives, sufficiently irrational people might decide to "not take any chances" and deal with every detected "mutant" as if it were the real deal. They might justify their actions by declaring these unfortunate victims "acceptable collateral damage". Of course, if the technology is known to give false negative readings, the people using them would very likely be extremely paranoid about the possibility that they are missing some dangerous "mutie". This would very likely lead to the development of "infallible" mutant detectors that reliably never give a false negative. Of course, that sort of device is the most likely to give a false positive, and thus we have the situation pointed out by Shoutybloke.

[Pattern Ghost]

Re: How do mutants work out?

 

That's not funny.

Do you really think the Blob does/did light cardio?

 

Blob just comes by his svelte physique naturally.

 

Besides, he won't fit through the Danger Room door.

[Pattern Ghost]

Re: How do mutants work out?

 

Here's my take on how it works:

 

1) the presence of mutant supremacists of vast power. You pretty much need a Magneto or Appocalypse type to really get the hysteria going IMO.

 

2) The paranoid fear that anyone could be a mutant, even your own children. And you might not even know til they turn into ornery teenagers with laser vision! Most other supers can't just breed with our women to make more of themselves.

 

3) Many mutants have non-combat abilites and/or obvious physical mutations. Makes them easy targets. But even if that wasn't the case, mutants have readily detectable genetic and psychic signatures. As such, there are universal mutant detectors and mutant power dampeners and things like the Legacy Virus and the Cure. What you use to track down and combat a psychic like the Leader probably won't help you when you want to find Spider-man or take out the Juggernaut, but the same thing you use to take out Magneto works just as well on the X-Men.

 

And with all that said, I think it works best in it's own universe like Heroes.

 

I think number 2 there is really one of the best ways to rationalize why Mutants are singled out instead of other types of supers in a world where there are many origins.

 

That said, it really does work better in a single origin setting.

[The Weapon]

Re: How do mutants work out?

 

The reality of a situation doesn't matter to the public. Only public perception matters. You are much more likely to die in a car accident than in a plane crash, but one look at flaming ruins will make people scared to death of flying. They feel that every plane is a deathtrap, despite any factual evidense to the contrary.

 

Now replace this mundane situation with the realization that some normal looking humans have the ability to kill large groups of people without great effort. People can't tell human from monster. A normal shooting will only make local news while a case of telekenetic decapitation of live cremation will run coast to coast. Nevermind that gang violence kills more people, the masses are desensitized to it and see it as familiar. Mutant populations will be exagerated because, after all, how can anyone tell if their neighbor can fire beams of death from his eyes? Even more unnerving would be accidental cases as a teen vaporizes his class without meaning to.

 

Witch Hunts are as real today as they were in Salem and the Cold War. Fear needs no reason, only a target.

 

"nobody panic when things go according to plan even if the plan is horrifying. If tomorrow I tell the press thata gangbanger will get shot or a truckload of soldiers will be blown up nobody panics, because it's all part of the plan"

 

Mutants are never part of the plan. They can't be, because everyone thinks they're normal until they do something that disrupts someone's plan. It doesn't matter if that plan is the plan to beat up a random stranger in the park or arrest someone for a victimless crime, these people are disrupting the plan, and they could disrupt others.