The Dude Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 Is it just a special effect? Or does it represent a level of 'reality bending' not normally accessable to player characters? How do you treat it in your games? The Dude would like to know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrosshairCollie Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 Re: What does 'Magic' mean to you? It's pretty much just a special effect to me. Since I don't believe in it, it's hard for me to conceptualize it as anything other than a basic game mechanic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clonus Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 Re: What does 'Magic' mean to you? Depends on the game. I did one game where "magic" was the use of ritual incantations and gestures as a concentration aid for your superpowers. (And there magic was not a special effect. Anything that worked against psi, worked against magic.) I did another where "magic" was the collected cheat codes for the universe-as-computer. And there was another where "magic" was the tendency of the universe to just bend to the will of someone who understood it well enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assault Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 Re: What does 'Magic' mean to you? Special effect. I see no reason to privilege it over other ways of doing the impossible, aka superpowers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba smith Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 Re: What does 'Magic' mean to you? as a non scientific soure of super-powers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCoy Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 Re: What does 'Magic' mean to you? Special effect. Violates known laws of physics, but so do most superpowers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Samson Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 Re: What does 'Magic' mean to you? In our games it has been a relatively common SFX as we always seem to have at least one pure Mystic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utech Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 Re: What does 'Magic' mean to you? spells : magic as tools : technology In an alternate dimension, I might be sending this message out to y'all through the use of my Apple brand magic spell kit. We would be speculating as to what "technology means to us". In yet another alternate dimension, I might be a superhero. With friends who use amazing technology and other friends who use amazing magic. I like to game Champions stuff in that last dimension. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asperion Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 Re: What does 'Magic' mean to you? Magic has its own set of rules that allow a skilled practitioner to manipulate (this does not mean control) reality. When someone learns to control magic, they will have the ability to do things that seems difficult (this does not include the impossible) to someone not trained in magic. Since modern society does not use magic normally, people tend to associate it with something mystical or otherworldly, although it really is psychic manipulation of reality to obtain a desired result. There will always be some price for using magic, though it may not be immediately apparent. This is why training in magic will always take years to complete, and a true practitioner will believe that they are never truly finished, hence why they call it a practice. This is really no different than the way that tech is done, although that is more accepted in modern society. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 Re: What does 'Magic' mean to you? In a setting of superheroes? By the Dazzling Discs of Ditko, I automatically think of Dr. Strange It is an special effect, but the GM is free to put in some "rules of magic" (just like so many comic book writers have experimented with) and warn the players about some of those rules/restrictions/responsiblities so the gadgeteer doesn't feel totally unloved in comparison. It also is a grand source of background material, origins, and settings. It can put a spin on an old storyline that may (if you're lucky) make it fresh again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulcan Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 Re: What does 'Magic' mean to you? I feel magic is an SFX that is defined by it's limitations, much like Gadgets (defined by foci) are. The defining limitations are: Incantations + Gestures (almost always), Actvation/Requires Skill Roll (pretty common), and Side Effect (not too uncommon, especially on high AP effects). Regardless of the presence of 'RSR' on powers, the charcter usually has skills pertaining to the knowledge, use, and control of magic - much like the Gadgeteer has skills pertaining to the knowledge, use, and control of technology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hfergus Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 Re: What does 'Magic' mean to you? In my campaigns it is a special effect with one extra: It does not even attempt to explain how it is done. Operates outside of even "weird" science. Drives science types up a tree. However, in my head it has an explaination. If you are familiar with quantum mechanics - quantum mechanics often seem just about like magic. So that is what is being used, even if you do not understand it. (You do not have to understand electricity to use it, just how it can be used.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted February 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 Re: What does 'Magic' mean to you? What if a 'magic' ability is used to create a fire attack? What if another character has a vulnerability to magical attacks? Is the fire attack considered magical or not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 Re: What does 'Magic' mean to you? Yes. That is a standard example of a "multiple SFX" attack, and one of the SFX advantages that magic usually has. Now, if magic were used to take natural fire and attack someone (like "pulling" flame from an existing source of fire), then it's a less clear-cut case. That's why Hero is a GM-moderated RPG and not a wargame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fbdaury Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 Re: What does 'Magic' mean to you? What if a 'magic' ability is used to create a fire attack? What if another character has a vulnerability to magical attacks? Is the fire attack considered magical or not? Magic, to me is too things at the same time- an SFX but also the ability of some to focus their belief/concentration to the extent that reality is "bent" around that focus. In terms of the specific question above, yes I would rule that the magic vulnerable character should take extra damage from the magical fire attack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocMan Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 Re: What does 'Magic' mean to you? In an alternate dimension' date=' I might be sending this message out to y'all through the use of my Apple brand magic spell kit.[/quote'] I thought in that dimension they used Zucchini brand Invokers, like the zInvoke. Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 Re: What does 'Magic' mean to you? What if a 'magic' ability is used to create a fire attack? What if another character has a vulnerability to magical attacks? Is the fire attack considered magical or not? To me clearly magical. So the character would suffer from his vulnerability. If the magic was used to transport an existing fire, I would not consider it magical. Then what happens if the character is vulnerable to fire and magic. A fire created by magic would truly scare the heck outta me if I was playing that character. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted February 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 Re: What does 'Magic' mean to you? What if we have a character whose power is control of and immunity to fire (like Human Torch). We have another character who generates magical fire (like Ghost Rider). Can Ghost Rider's magical flames burn Human Torch? If so, why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assault Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 Re: What does 'Magic' mean to you? What if we have a character whose power is control of and immunity to fire (like Human Torch). We have another character who generates magical fire (like Ghost Rider). Can Ghost Rider's magical flames burn Human Torch? If so, why? This depends on the mechanical builds. Neither "magical flames" nor "immunity to fire" are powers in the Hero System. It's quite possible that GR's flames could be bought as a weird kind of attack that could go around HT's defences. Call it "Burning his soul" or something. Or they could just be a standard attack power that HT could ignore all day. I don't like overly complicated builds, so the second option would be more likely for characters built by me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebuchet Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 Re: What does 'Magic' mean to you? In our Champions campaign we view it as an sfx with certain inherent privileges and built-in limitations. Our adage is "A mentalist can cause you to think you're a frog; a magician can make you into a frog." Nearly half of our PCs have magical origins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrosshairCollie Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 Re: What does 'Magic' mean to you? What if a 'magic' ability is used to create a fire attack? What if another character has a vulnerability to magical attacks? Is the fire attack considered magical or not? In my game, no. Fire is fire and magic is magic. If you use magic to make fire, it's the same as using a flamethrower to make fire. The end result is fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrosshairCollie Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 Re: What does 'Magic' mean to you? What if we have a character whose power is control of and immunity to fire (like Human Torch). We have another character who generates magical fire (like Ghost Rider). Can Ghost Rider's magical flames burn Human Torch? If so, why? Somewhat moot question, because the Ghost Rider's flames don't actually burn people in the regular way; they're hellfire that attacks the psyche, so would probably be better built as an Ego Attack or something like that. The people he 'burns' suffer no physical damage, just mental trauma. *At least, as of the last time I paid attention to Ghost Rider in the comics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest steamteck Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 Re: What does 'Magic' mean to you? In my game' date=' no. Fire is fire and magic is magic. If you use magic to make fire, it's the same as using a flamethrower to make fire. The end result is fire.[/quote'] My approach also. The result is not really dependent on the source unless its uniquely magically different than say normal fire etc. Now a transformation spell or mental illusion etc now that's magic as far as the vulnerability is concerned . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt the Bruins Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 Re: What does 'Magic' mean to you? I think my answer has to depend on the tone of the particular campaign. In a standard super-heroic setting where there are a few magical heroes/villains, magic should be just another SFX, albeit one suiting a broader range of powers than most. In a setting that uses mysticism and spirituality as important parts of the campaign, magic becomes charged with more meaning. Choices about using it can be determined by (or change) a character's morality, and it's sort of the "language" used to explore higher dimensions and the abstract beings that play a role in running the universe. Symbolism and cultural beliefs become important to what can be done and how it's done, rather than just a bit of flavor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted February 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 Re: What does 'Magic' mean to you? I am hearing a couple of different answers so far. Fire created by magical means is still just 'normal' fire. vs. Fire created by magical means is 'magical' fire (with no points difference). The second option appears to devalue the points spent by a character to actually create 'magical' fire (example: the flames can't be dispelled by water; only dispel vs. magic will work). Should a dispel vs. magic work against a 'normal' fire created by magical means? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.