Steve Long Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 A Statement Of Purpose: As we build up to the release of 6E, I thought it would be fun to showcase something in the 6E rules that I think HERO fans will particularly like or find useful. The Sixth Edition Showcases won’t be lengthy or detail-filled, but hopefully they’ll whet your appetite for 6E. I plan to post one a week, though not necessarily on the same day each week. Naturally, you’re welcome to discuss each Showcase to your heart’s content — praise it, complain about it, whatever you like. However, generally speaking, I’m not going to participate in the conversation or answer any questions. I’ll say pretty much all I want to say in each Showcase post. So, on to this week’s showcase! (I’m posting a bit early this week since I’m heading out for SpoCon on Thursday.) The subject: Body-Affecting Powers 6E includes some tweaks and changes to several of the Body-Affecting Powers that I think make them better and more fun to play. I thought I’d discuss them here to give you a little taste of what you have to look forward to. Growth: Growth is a Power that I think has changed in just about every edition of HERO, to some degree. How to do Growth was a big point of contention twenty years ago during the creation of 4E, and it remains something of a sticking point even today. IMO, the big problem with Growth is this: we all have a certain “intuitive” understanding of what abilities Being Really Tall should provide a character, but Growth has never really mirrored that general understanding. I think this has been in an effort to keep the cost within some artificial range that’s regarded as “good.” The problem is that it leads to common sense and dramatic sense “disconnects.” People wonder why a 25 foot-tall character can’t run faster than a six-footer, why he’s not more impressive, why his hands aren’t Area-affecting attacks, and so on. The mere fact that Growth in 5E includes a text box listing “other things you should consider buying with Growth” is a pretty clear sign that something’s not quite right. In an attempt to resolve this problem, I’ve rebuilt Growth so that it does provide a character with all those things we think he “should” have. This makes Growth significantly more expensive than in previous editions, but you’re getting a lot more for your Character Points. And if you don’t want all that stuff, no worries! There are text boxes and Templates that show you exactly how I built things. So, if you want to re-build Growth to account for different character concepts or campaign parameters, you can do so without any difficulty. Density Increase, Shrinking: Both of these Powers went through an analysis similar to the one for Growth: what abilities should becoming denser or smaller provide a character, and how should they be fairly costed? As a result, neither of them has really changed per se — I think they do a good job of representing their concepts as they are — but they’ve become cheaper (DI just a little, Shrinking a bit moreso). Shape Shift: Like DI and Shrinking, I think Shape Shift works well as it’s constructed. However, I’ve recosted it. The cost for affecting a given Sense Group is cheaper than in 5E, and the cost varies depending on how common/useful/effective a Sense Group is — changing shape to Sight or Touch is more expensive than changing “shape” as to Smell. Similarly, the cost for being able to change into multiple shapes has been reduced. Stretching: Stretching’s undergone a couple of changes that I think really bring out its potential and make it fun. First, the cost of buying increased meters of Reach has been reduced significantly compared to earlier editions. 5 Character Points per 2m has always seemed pretty expensive for the utility it provides, so that cost has gone down. Second, the possibility now exists for characters to do more with Stretching than just increase their Reach. If a character wants to, he can now pay for the ability to alter one dimension of his body with a corresponding change to another dimension. For example, he could become twice as tall — but at the cost of becoming half as wide or thick. ::Steve projects several pictures of Mr. Fantastic and Plastic Man onto the screen to illustrate the concept:: This doesn’t provide any extra abilities in the Growth or Shrinking sense, but it gives you a way to determine what openings a character can squeeze his malleable body through, how much he can hide behind his body, things like that. For example, if he can become one-eighth as tall or wide as normal, he can squeeze through openings as small as 25cm (though not at his full Running speed, obviously). Fitting through truly tiny cracks is still likely to involve buying a Desolidification-based “power trick,” but this adds some “dimensions” (no pun intended ) to Stretching that the Power’s previously lacked. And now, for this week’s page preview, I thought we’d show you one of the full-page chapter headers. I really like this particular piece; it has a great Cyber Hero/Dark Champions sort of vibe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #5: Body-Affecting Powers I'll have to see how the costs have been changed, but I am interested in any improvements to Growth and Shrinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjcurrie Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #5: Body-Affecting Powers The Stretching changes look good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Hiemforth Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #5: Body-Affecting Powers And now' date=' for this week’s page preview, I thought we’d show you one of the full-page chapter headers. I really like this particular piece; it has a great Cyber Hero/Dark Champions sort of vibe. [/quote']Clearly, this is a pic of some futuristic RPG suit. The guy's obviously role-playing... he's got hex maps and everything! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mayapuppies Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #5: Body-Affecting Powers I am absolutely thrilled to see this change in Growth! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Long Posted July 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #5: Body-Affecting Powers Clearly, this is a pic of some futuristic RPG suit. We're setting up DOJ Tailors, Inc. soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #5: Body-Affecting Powers Page looks awesome. I mean, we are seriously not going to recognise this as a Hero rule book, are we Growth...interesting - have to wait and see the detail though. DI and Shrinking...surprised DI will be cheaper: I'd have thought decoupling figured characteristics would have made it more useful and more worth the current cost. Somewhat worried that shrinking will be 'moreso' cheaper. IMO it is already a pretty potent power, but maybe that simply reflects the DCV costs in 6e. Have to wait and see. Shapeshift...another wait and see. Like the idea of multiple shapes being cheaper (but I'd probably have gone for 'anyshape' being the default and allowed limitations) and (slightly) disappointed that touch shapeshift seems to work the same as now - never been entirely satisfied with that. I'd have prefered 'actual' changes of shape to be done as adders which could apply to shapeshift OR stretching...which brings us to... Stretching...good that the cost has gone down, but have to wait and see the actual implementation. I've always been keen that stretching be treated as a movement power as there are so many parallels. So, overall, a I'm a little less enthusiastic about this than some of the other teasers. That page is awesome though. Can you pre-order 6e yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #5: Body-Affecting Powers Clearly' date=' this is a pic of some futuristic RPG suit. The guy's obviously role-playing... he's got hex maps and everything! [/quote'] Nah that's Thor3000. He's designing his hammer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korvar Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #5: Body-Affecting Powers I'm curious about how buying things that start off very big or very small will work... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #5: Body-Affecting Powers Clearly' date=' this is a pic of some futuristic RPG suit. The guy's obviously role-playing... he's got hex maps and everything! [/quote'] Hey...I thought that hexes were going to be eliminated in 6e! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Hiemforth Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #5: Body-Affecting Powers Hey...I thought that hexes were going to be eliminated in 6e!Well... things will be measured in raw meters instead of abstract "game inches" or "game hexes," but we can still use hex maps for mapping things, can't we? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #5: Body-Affecting Powers Without seeing the details, I like it in principe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #5: Body-Affecting Powers Hey...I thought that hexes were going to be eliminated in 6e! Maybe that is what he is doing - detecting and eliminating hexes. With a hammer. Stop looking at me like that. He could be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prestidigitator Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #5: Body-Affecting Powers There are text boxes and Templates that show you exactly how I built things. So' date=' if you want to re-build Growth to account for different character concepts or campaign parameters, you can do so without any difficulty.[/quote'] Hmm. This bit I foresee not being entirely happy with. If there's a smaller element to how the Power was "built", then why wasn't it simply broken up into its constituent pieces? Sounds like Growth is getting even more complicated than it was. The rest sounds great. I love the illustration! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Main Man Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #5: Body-Affecting Powers Growth: Sounds good that it will account for more actual things that it should have been in the first place. Density Increase/Shrinking: No comment. Shape Shift: No comment. Stretching: I like that its utility is being expanded. Overall: While in the end I will just have to see it for myself, I find myself generally enticed by this showcase. And in reading that all of the Body-Affecting Powers except for growth are going to become cheaper coupled with the fact that characters are going to have to be more expensive due to CHAR cost changes means that Shape-Shifters may be getting a shot in the arm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megaplayboy Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #5: Body-Affecting Powers Well, the "Size Increase" sets from the Bestiary and elsewhere could be adapted pretty readily to that purpose, and would be significantly more expensive, but you'd need to chop them up a bit to keep the granularity of 5E Growth (since each level of size increase was equivalent to 3 levels of growth). And, I guess the default would be that it all costs END to activate and maintain, so that might make it slightly cheaper than those versions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archermoo Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #5: Body-Affecting Powers Hmm. This bit I foresee not being entirely happy with. If there's a smaller element to how the Power was "built"' date=' then why wasn't it simply broken up into its constituent pieces? Sounds like Growth is getting even [i']more[/i] complicated than it was. Because one of the things that a lot of people complain about is that the Growth power doesn't really model very well the things that being larger should really give you. There are a lot of people that want a one stop shopping experience with Growth. You CAN buy all of the components separately, but they want to just buy one power and get all of those effects in one. This is in theory an attempt to give them that. Steve is just noting that for people who want to be able to buy everything separately he has also included notes about how to do that too. To in theory keep both sides happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Main Man Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #5: Body-Affecting Powers If I may be so bold as to guess what Growth might provide per level: +5 STR, +1 BODY, +1 PD, +1 ED, +1 STUN, +4m Running, +2m Leaping, and +1m of Stretching/Reach, which, when added together and applied with Costs END, would make a cost of ~10 CP/Level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #5: Body-Affecting Powers If I may be so bold as to guess what Growth might provide per level: +5 STR, +1 BODY, +1 PD, +1 ED, +1 STUN, +4m Running, +2m Leaping, and +1m of Stretching/Reach, which, when added together and applied with Costs END, would make a cost of ~10 CP/Level. Almost exactly right. The only thing you missed out was PS:Fishmonger. Mind you I was never sure why we put that in in the first place. Sure, all fishmongers are huge, but does that mean everyone who is huge is a fishmonger? It does? OK. Carry on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megaplayboy Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #5: Body-Affecting Powers If I may be so bold as to guess what Growth might provide per level: +5 STR, +1 BODY, +1 PD, +1 ED, +1 STUN, +4m Running, +2m Leaping, and +1m of Stretching/Reach, which, when added together and applied with Costs END, would make a cost of ~10 CP/Level. That still leaves out a PRE boost and any AE benefit to STR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobGreenwade Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #5: Body-Affecting Powers Well... things will be measured in raw meters instead of abstract "game inches" or "game hexes' date='" but we can still use hex maps for mapping things, can't we? [/quote']Ah, but how? That's the question I've been asking since the idea was first brought up in the 6E forums. I hope it's addressed, if not in 6E2 then in the APG.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Netzilla Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #5: Body-Affecting Powers Ah' date=' but [i']how?[/i] That's the question I've been asking since the idea was first brought up in the 6E forums. I hope it's addressed, if not in 6E2 then in the APG.... I'm not sure I understand the question. You just state that 1 hex = 2m (or 1m or 10m or whatever scale you need) and you're off and running. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archermoo Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #5: Body-Affecting Powers Ah' date=' but [i']how?[/i] That's the question I've been asking since the idea was first brought up in the 6E forums. I hope it's addressed, if not in 6E2 then in the APG.... I gotta second the "don't understand the question" bit. I don't understand what you feel needs to be addressed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #5: Body-Affecting Powers Ah' date=' but [i']how?[/i] That's the question I've been asking since the idea was first brought up in the 6E forums. I hope it's addressed, if not in 6E2 then in the APG.... Errr....maybe I'm missing something here, but I fail to see where there could be any issue (or even question). You don't tend to draw things out on a hex map by following the lines of the hex -- you draw out the map to scale (typically 1" = 2m) over the hexes. A hex is defined as being 2m from face to face -- it's just scaling. You could do the same thing on square grids, triangular, houndstooth, or pretty much any other shape you care to come up with. A building that is defined as 20m long x 30m wide x 15m tall will look exactly the same on a hex map as one that is defined (in old terms) as 10" long x 15" wide x 7.5" tall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajackson Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 Re: Sixth Edition Showcase #5: Body-Affecting Powers That looks remarkably like 3rd edition growth... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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