Looks Like a Spaceship, Don't It?

[Clonus]

http://www.popsci.com/technology/article/2010-07/new-generation-sonic-jets-aims-get-rid-boom

[Xavier Onassiss]

Re: Looks Like a Spaceship, Don't It?

 

Define 'spaceship'?

 

There's no air in space, so aerodynamic streamlining, wings, and air-breathing engines don't make me think of spaceships.

 

Looks really cool, anyway, tho.

[Sweeper]

Re: Looks Like a Spaceship, Don't It?

 

Those aren't air intakes. Those are, uh... , bussard collectors. Yeah, that's it.

[BobGreenwade]

Re: Looks Like a Spaceship, Don't It?

 

They do have a really cool, futuristic look, though if one really wants to eliminate sonic booms one could just use a spaceplane.

 

That said, the highly aerodynamic design might be a good idea for re-entry (having zero knowledge of aeronautical engineering, I really don't know).

[Clonus]

Re: Looks Like a Spaceship, Don't It?

 

Define 'spaceship'?

 

There's no air in space, so aerodynamic streamlining, wings, and air-breathing engines don't make me think of spaceships.

.

 

What about spaceships that can land?

[Kraven Kor]

Re: Looks Like a Spaceship, Don't It?

 

What about spaceships that can land?

 

I'd think having one engine system for in-atmosphere and another for space travel would be inefficient at best... inefficient, expensive, and dangerous at worst. But then I'm no expert either and generally get around such details by conveniently overlooking them

[Vulcan]

Re: Looks Like a Spaceship, Don't It?

 

Having different propulsion systems for different environments is inefficient... to an extent.

 

Given current technology, however, it is even more inefficient to use rocket propulsion in an atmosphere for extended periods. So, to take the 'earth to orbit' example, it might well be more efficient to use jets of some sort to 100K feet altitude, then kick the rockets in to get to orbit. Coming back would only use the rockets briefly to deorbit, then the jets would kick back in for landing.

 

Theorectically, of course.

 

Now, if we could come up with some sort of drive that worked equally well in and out of the atmosphere with minimal harmful effects, then that would really be something, wouldn't it?

[Sweeper]

Re: Looks Like a Spaceship, Don't It?

 

In reality sure. But few care about such things in fiction.

[Kraven Kor]

Re: Looks Like a Spaceship, Don't It?

 

Having different propulsion systems for different environments is inefficient... to an extent.

 

Given current technology, however, it is even more inefficient to use rocket propulsion in an atmosphere for extended periods. So, to take the 'earth to orbit' example, it might well be more efficient to use jets of some sort to 100K feet altitude, then kick the rockets in to get to orbit. Coming back would only use the rockets briefly to deorbit, then the jets would kick back in for landing.

 

Theorectically, of course.

 

Now, if we could come up with some sort of drive that worked equally well in and out of the atmosphere with minimal harmful effects, then that would really be something, wouldn't it?

 

Could one make a rocket/jet hybrid? One that, in atmosphere, mixes the rocket fuel with air, then once out, seals the air intakes and goes to pure rocket?

[mikesama]

Re: Looks Like a Spaceship, Don't It?

 

Could one make a rocket/jet hybrid? One that' date=' in atmosphere, mixes the rocket fuel with air, then once out, seals the air intakes and goes to pure rocket?[/quote']

 

In theory that could work using liquid hydrogen and liquid oxygen and simply using a ram get style engine for when you are in the atmosphere.

[Xavier Onassiss]

Re: Looks Like a Spaceship, Don't It?

 

What about spaceships that can land?

 

Here's one:

 

[TSandman]

Re: Looks Like a Spaceship, Don't It?

 

I think it looks like a fancy dart

[Markdoc]

Re: Looks Like a Spaceship, Don't It?

 

As for the plane itself, it looks cool, but will never be built: it's pointless. The "sonic boom" effect and resulting law was simply a way for Congress to stop Concorde from selling their planes to US domestic carriers. Concorde was operated over heavily populated areas in Europe for years with nary a problem and the US routinely permits supersonic flight by military craft inside the US. Given all that - and the economic failure of Concorde - why spend billions to develop a plane with a limited market and no real technological requirement to exist?

 

Cheers, Mark

[dmjalund]

Re: Looks Like a Spaceship, Don't It?

 

It's market would be less limited (by how much I couldn't say) If it was allowed to fly over the U.S. Also - If it is more fule efficient than the Concorde, it could fly over oceans larger than the Atlantic. (L.A. to Sydney in 4 hours anyone?)

[Susano]

Re: Looks Like a Spaceship, Don't It?

 

Well, now I know what the scramjets in Kazei 5 look like.

[Tom Carman]

Re: Looks Like a Spaceship, Don't It?

 

Having different propulsion systems for different environments is inefficient... to an extent.

 

Given current technology, however, it is even more inefficient to use rocket propulsion in an atmosphere for extended periods. So, to take the 'earth to orbit' example, it might well be more efficient to use jets of some sort to 100K feet altitude, then kick the rockets in to get to orbit. Coming back would only use the rockets briefly to deorbit, then the jets would kick back in for landing.

 

Theorectically, of course.

 

Now, if we could come up with some sort of drive that worked equally well in and out of the atmosphere with minimal harmful effects, then that would really be something, wouldn't it?

 

Actually, this is a hotly debated trade-off at current tech levels. Turbojets/ramjets/scramjets get their oxygen supply in gaseous form. It is very low density, and how it looks to the engine varies widely depending on speed and altitude. LOX is dense and always the same to the engine. There is a strong view that scramjets (which still haven't been proven to work effectively) aren't worth the effort unless you plan to cruise in atmosphere at hypersonic speeds (a very hostile thermal environment). This view says to forget about the weight penalties of an extra set of engines and just run rockets all the way. If necessary, some small LOX drop tanks can be added. A possible half-way solution is a ducted rocket: a ramjet-style tube around the rocket picks up some air to heat as extra reaction mass, and you can maybe get some afterburner action if the rocket is run extra fuel-rich. For technical reasons, rockets are always run somewhat fuel-rich.

[BlueCloud2k2]

Re: Looks Like a Spaceship, Don't It?

 

Could one make a rocket/jet hybrid? One that' date=' in atmosphere, mixes the rocket fuel with air, then once out, seals the air intakes and goes to pure rocket?[/quote']

 

Allow me to introduce the X-302, humanity's first space-capable fighter. It has three sets of engines. The first is for atmospheric flight. The Second is a high-powered boosted to acheive orbit. And the third is for extra-atmospheric flight. It carries a pilot and co-pilot and is armed with missles and a machine gun.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1MaKxN9QCM

And yes, that is a grapping Stargate attached to the bottom. I tried to find the actual test-flight episode but was unsuccessful.

[RexMundi]

Re: Looks Like a Spaceship, Don't It?

 

I grew up on Air Bases. Sonic Booms never really bothered me. If anything especially around Texas the farmers liked them alot because the occasional boom would wake up lazy critters and get them doing their thing so to speak.

 

As for if the plane will ever be built. Probably not in that look, but pieces of it may show up on other planes.

 

~Rex

[wcw43921]

Re: Looks Like a Spaceship, Don't It?

 

I think it looks like a fancy dart

 

I think they both look the way artists and designers from the 1950s envisioned jetliners would look, back when few people were concerned about things like petroleum shortages or enviromental damage, when bigger and faster was the way to go. (Although to complete the theme there would have to be a delta-wing design under consideration--something like what Race Bannon used to fly Johnny Quest and his dad around.)

 

So it's true, I guess, that everything old is new again--Hmm?

[Ternaugh]

Re: Looks Like a Spaceship, Don't It?

 

They kind of remind me of the Patrol Cruiser out of Classic Traveller, as well as the Orion from "2001: A Space Odyssey".

 

Try this link for the sci fi airshow version of the Orion: http://www.scifiairshow.com/ships-orion.html

 

JoeG

[Ninja-Bear]

Re: Looks Like a Spaceship, Don't It?

 

As for the plane itself, it looks cool, but will never be built: it's pointless. The "sonic boom" effect and resulting law was simply a way for Congress to stop Concorde from selling their planes to US domestic carriers. Concorde was operated over heavily populated areas in Europe for years with nary a problem and the US routinely permits supersonic flight by military craft inside the US. Given all that - and the economic failure of Concorde - why spend billions to develop a plane with a limited market and no real technological requirement to exist?

 

Cheers, Mark

 

Have you forgeten about Congress? What you described is exactly why it will be pursued!

[Xavier Onassiss]

Re: Looks Like a Spaceship, Don't It?

 

Have you forgeten about Congress? What you described is exactly why it will be pursued!

 

That's not Congress, it's NASA....

[RexMundi]

Re: Looks Like a Spaceship, Don't It?

 

Heh.....he said NASA.......

 

~Rex

[Susano]

Re: Looks Like a Spaceship, Don't It?

 

That's not Congress' date=' it's NASA....[/quote']

 

It's Congress and NASA! It's also a dessert topping and a floor wax! Not only does it waste money on a moon rocket that won't fly, but look at that shine!

[BlueCloud2k2]

Re: Looks Like a Spaceship, Don't It?

 

Allow me to introduce the X-302, humanity's first space-capable fighter. It has three sets of engines. The first is for atmospheric flight. The Second is a high-powered boosted to acheive orbit. And the third is for extra-atmospheric flight. It carries a pilot and co-pilot and is armed with missles and a machine gun.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1MaKxN9QCM

And yes, that is a grapping Stargate attached to the bottom. I tried to find the actual test-flight episode but was unsuccessful.

 

There,I fixed the Embed code...