How are magic items (equipment) created in your setting?

[Narf the Mouse]

Primarily, as far as mechanics goes. For example, is it pay money, pay CP, do you use the "Independent" limitation? How about skill rolls? Time? Search across the world for the rare feathers of gryphons?

[Killer Shrike]

Re: How are magic items (equipment) created in your setting?

 

For fantasy, this is the approach I've used for many years: Magic Items, Artificing

 

If I ever revisit the subject, I'll likely adapt that for use in conjunction w/ gear pools similar to what I did with MetaCyber and Here There Be Monsters.

[teh bunneh]

Re: How are magic items (equipment) created in your setting?

 

In my primary fantasy world, magic items are very rare and very powerful. If a PC wants to create one, he needs to gather rare items of the highest quality, research the spells required to enchant the item, and finally give up a portion of his own life (in the form of CON) to finalize the creation.

 

Most items are built as AI Followers (since magic items have at least a rudimentary intelligence and a will of their own). The PC spends XPs to buy the magic item, a few points at a time; each expenditure of points unlocking another power or powers.

 

It's a little complicated, but that's how I wanted to do it in this game.

[prestidigitator]

Re: How are magic items (equipment) created in your setting?

 

I generally base the actual creation on a Transform with Extra Time, and often it Requires a Skill Roll of some sort plus plenty of expensive expendable Foci. The actual monetary cost of creation is usually pretty high for permanent items. I do require Character Points to be spent on it, but usually apply Independent, or (and lately I'm swaying more and more to this approach) just divide the Real Cost by 5 in a manner similar to Followers, Vehicles, Bases, etc. One thing I do that's not very standard at all is allow special difficult-to-obtain objects or materials (e.g. the griffin feather mentioned in the OP) to contribute (some of) the "Character Points" toward the creation of a specific kind of magical item. So if you create something particularly appropriate to quests that you've undergone, you might have to spend few or no actual Character Points.

 

Other aspects of the actual mechanics vary from game to game, and I haven't really settled on any kind of "standard system", though it's something I ponder frequently.

[dmjalund]

Re: How are magic items (equipment) created in your setting?

 

remember that 6e does not have the Independent Limitation

[Narf the Mouse]

Re: How are magic items (equipment) created in your setting?

 

remember that 6e does not have the Independent Limitation

Sure it does. See? Right there, spelt "Cee Yoo Ess Tee Oh Ehm Space Ehm Oh Dee Eye Eff Eye Ee Err".

[Markdoc]

Re: How are magic items (equipment) created in your setting?

 

remember that 6e does not have the Independent Limitation

 

Yeah, Narf has already said it, but Independent was the second thing house-ruled straight back into 6E for me. It's simply too useful to do without.

 

cheers, Mark

[Markdoc]

Re: How are magic items (equipment) created in your setting?

 

As for the original question, items are either:

1) made the old fashioned way by sweat and skill rolls, if mundane or:

2) made the old fashioned way by sweat and skill rolls, and then enchanted by the use of life force (Xp) and more skill rolls, if magic.

 

Items don't have to be independent (in fact many of them are not: a wizard's wand for example, might just be a carved stick to anyone else, but to him it's +5 on his magic skill rolls. If it gets broken, he just carves another.). But non-independent items or spells cease to function on the death or similar removal of their caster. They are, after all, not independent of the character who made them.

 

cheers, Mark

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: How are magic items (equipment) created in your setting?

 

I treat magic items more or less the same way Champions treats high tech foci such as powered armor, blasters, and so on. An enchanter (gadgeteer), upon gathering the right materials (parts), putting in the requisite amount of time, and making the appropriate Skill Roll, can create a magic item (gadget). If the eventual user pays points for it, and the item is lost, he can either regain the item or get the points back. If he does not pay the points, his ability to keep the item is entirely up to the GM. It's possible that paying the points means the item is "attuned" to the character in some way, and this might depend on the campaign world, but it doesn't absolutely necessary follow.

[JohnTaber]

Re: How are magic items (equipment) created in your setting?

 

Here is what I do in my campaign...

 

1.1 Magic Items

 

Magic items in the Spirit Storm campaign world are simply objects that have spirits bound to them. Once bound these spirits perform some type of service to the user. Magic items are considered fairly rare. Most players will have seen a minor magic item or heard tales of them but they have likely never used one.

 

Magic items take the same time to build as if the user was buying a new spell. The only consideration is that magic items cannot increase their Active Cost over time like a regular spell. They must be purchased with the intended Active Cost or recast at the higher level. As magic items can be quite cheap to purchase this is a way to balance things out a bit.

 

Magic items are built as spells with the following additional advantage and limitation restrictions. Note that the restrictions mentioned above still apply to the spell that is used to create the item.

1.1.1 Advantages

 

· Trigger – The Trigger advantage is used on many magic items except for those with permanent effects (e.g. magic armor or weapons). Often a Trigger with a defined condition that resets automatically is used (+3/4). An example is a wand with a command word and flourish. This also infers that magic items are not as powerful as spells directly cast by a spirit mage. This is intentional.

1.1.2 Limitations

 

In general limitations are applied to the spell which creates the object NOT its actual use. Limitations which affect the usage are simply added as Limitations and should be applied with GM guidance.

· Charges – Charges are often placed on magic items. Also they often take the advantage of Increased Recovery Time (i.e. they take longer than a day to recover).

· Extra Time – This is a very common limitation in the creation of the item as often they can take quite a while to cast. Note that this extra time does NOT include the collection and creation of the Focus.

· Focus – Magic items must take the Focus limitation. Even though items are time consuming to make and take rare materials they should not take the Focus – Expendable limitation as the item is not “spent” when used. Instead see Limited Power: Difficult To Make below.

· Limited Power: Difficult To Make – Spells that produce a magic item make take a limitation to reflect the fact that they are difficult to make. This means that if they are destroyed or lost it takes effort to replace the materials needed to cast the spell. Items that are very difficult to replace take a -1/4 limitation. Items that are extremely difficult to replace take a -1/2 limitation.

[Michael Hopcroft]

Re: How are magic items (equipment) created in your setting?

 

I treat magic items more or less the same way Champions treats high tech foci such as powered armor' date=' blasters, and so on. An enchanter (gadgeteer), upon gathering the right materials (parts), putting in the requisite amount of time, and making the appropriate Skill Roll, can create a magic item (gadget). If the eventual user pays points for it, and the item is lost, he can either regain the item or get the points back. If he does not pay the points, his ability to keep the item is entirely up to the GM. It's possible that paying the points means the item is "attuned" to the character in some way, and this might depend on the campaign world, but it doesn't absolutely necessary follow.[/quote']

 

I wonder about an alternative mechanic in which a player who loses a magic weapon or has it destroyed can replace it with a different weapon of equivalent power (modeled by CP investment) that he has to find or commission in-game. An example would be a swordsman who loses or has destroyed his Sword of Demon-Slaying and has to have some in-game way to get a new magiv sword that might have different properties based on the direction in which the campaign is headed.

[Markdoc]

Re: How are magic items (equipment) created in your setting?

 

I wonder about an alternative mechanic in which a player who loses a magic weapon or has it destroyed can replace it with a different weapon of equivalent power (modeled by CP investment) that he has to find or commission in-game. An example would be a swordsman who loses or has destroyed his Sword of Demon-Slaying and has to have some in-game way to get a new magiv sword that might have different properties based on the direction in which the campaign is headed.

 

You could certainly do this, but it sets up an explicit in-game contract with the GM that "magic gear will be readily available". That would certainly be suitable for a high-fantasy D&D style game, but probably not many others. I'm not sure that it offers much, if any advantage, over going full scale D&D and letteing ye playeres goe too ye olde magice shoppe too buye ye olde magicke itymes (on sale this week! Byrnies!)

 

cheers, Mark

[Michael Hopcroft]

Re: How are magic items (equipment) created in your setting?

 

You could certainly do this, but it sets up an explicit in-game contract with the GM that "magic gear will be readily available". That would certainly be suitable for a high-fantasy D&D style game, but probably not many others. I'm not sure that it offers much, if any advantage, over going full scale D&D and letteing ye playeres goe too ye olde magice shoppe too buye ye olde magicke itymes (on sale this week! Byrnies!)

 

cheers, Mark

 

The main reason to do something like that is to prevent the points the player invested in the weapon from disappearing permanently. And the player would probably have to go through quite a bit of struggle and grief to replace a powerful weapon -- which does not grow on trees.

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: How are magic items (equipment) created in your setting?

 

How many fantasy stories are there where a character loses an important item and.... that's it? Oh well, they're screwed. I can't think of any. Maybe there are some?

 

I've posted elsewhere about how permanent loss of points via Independent is a broken spot in the system. I'm glad Independent is gone; good riddance. I have asserted in the past and continue to assert that the way to keep fantasy worlds from being overrun with assembly line magic items is to say no, creating magic items on an assembly line is not allowed. It takes lots of time, requires expensive and exotic and difficult to find materials, a lab well stocked with expensive equipment, and might even cause BODY damage.

 

So, a character loses a magic item; perhaps it falls into a volcano full of acidic lava with undead lava piranhas in it. It's gone, man. They have some choices. Respend the points, maybe on Skill Levels, new Skills, maybe a new Talent or Power. They can commission a new magic item, which will take a lot of time, require expensive and exotic and difficult to find materials, and so on. Or, maybe they find something else in the course of adventuring. They pick it up, use it for the rest of the adventure, and decide they like it -- so they spend the points on it and keep it. Or they don't, and somehow it gets lost, destroyed, stolen, or whatever. Maybe they get a good offer on it. Or maybe it has three Charges that Never Recover; I'd let a character keep that until it's used up, without paying any points, because of the built-in limiting factor.

 

For Independent, if you don't make it limiting, it's not a Limitation, and if you do, it breaks the character. (If anyone is curious, I'm also opposed to paying points for Favors that go away or Charges that Never Recover.)

[Markdoc]

Re: How are magic items (equipment) created in your setting?

 

How many fantasy stories are there where a character loses an important item and.... that's it? Oh well, they're screwed. I can't think of any. Maybe there are some?

 

I've posted elsewhere about how permanent loss of points via Independent is a broken spot in the system. I'm glad Independent is gone; good riddance. I have asserted in the past and continue to assert that the way to keep fantasy worlds from being overrun with assembly line magic items is to say no, creating magic items on an assembly line is not allowed. It takes lots of time, requires expensive and exotic and difficult to find materials, a lab well stocked with expensive equipment, and might even cause BODY damage.

 

So, a character loses a magic item; perhaps it falls into a volcano full of acidic lava with undead lava piranhas in it. It's gone, man. They have some choices. Respend the points, maybe on Skill Levels, new Skills, maybe a new Talent or Power. They can commission a new magic item, which will take a lot of time, require expensive and exotic and difficult to find materials, and so on. Or, maybe they find something else in the course of adventuring. They pick it up, use it for the rest of the adventure, and decide they like it -- so they spend the points on it and keep it. Or they don't, and somehow it gets lost, destroyed, stolen, or whatever. Maybe they get a good offer on it. Or maybe it has three Charges that Never Recover; I'd let a character keep that until it's used up, without paying any points, because of the built-in limiting factor.

 

For Independent, if you don't make it limiting, it's not a Limitation, and if you do, it breaks the character. (If anyone is curious, I'm also opposed to paying points for Favors that go away or Charges that Never Recover.)

 

You're welcome to your own game style - but we've used Independant (and yes, players spend points on independant items) for years, through multiple games and it's never broken anything. The idea you suggest simply rewards the player who spends lots of points to start with items - something I actually strongly dislike and discourage as a GM. I feel the character should be the character, not a life support system for his magic items.

 

Fortunately, independant is still with us: it's just become a custom limitation, as many GM's have have already indicated. That's good: it's a very useful tool to seperate what a character can do and what he can own.

 

cheers, Mark

[Outsider]

Re: How are magic items (equipment) created in your setting?

 

Expendable Items : Charater has a spell with trigger. The object with the triggered spell on it is the magic item. If the Magic Item has more than one charge, each charge represents another casting of the triggered spell by the magic item creator. Each triggering of the magic item only triggers one charge, no matter how many it has. If the person triggering the magic item does not become the target of the effect, but can direct the triggered effect elsewhere, then the initial creating spell requires Usable by Others as well. To prevent an excess of expendable magic items from being created, all spells that create expendable magic items require expensive or hard to find expendable foci, and take at least hours to cast per charge imbued. Also, expendable magic items are limited by GM fiat to instant or not very long term effects.

 

Non-Expendable Items : Pay Character Points. However : extra Character Points are sometimes awarded with the specific limitation that they can only be used to create permanent magic items of a particular sort or special effect.

[Michael Hopcroft]

Re: How are magic items (equipment) created in your setting?

 

You're welcome to your own game style - but we've used Independant (and yes' date=' players spend points on independant items) for years, through multiple games and it's never broken anything. The idea you suggest simply rewards the player who spends lots of points to start with items - something I actually strongly dislike and discourage as a GM. I feel the character should be [b']the character[/b], not a life support system for his magic items.

 

So, if I read this correctly, you are actively seeking to punish players for having characters whose concept involves items.

 

I can imagine campaigns where there are few to no magic items in the setting and they are unavailable to PCs, but I suspect you would face a player revolt if you tried it.

[Sketchpad]

Re: How are magic items (equipment) created in your setting?

 

I treat magic items like other games ... they're gear. Like any other gear, a character doesn't spend points on them normally, but rather has to have the right skills to be able to use it. I don't use Independent, I use Focus and just that, declaring that all items are more or less independent in nature unless someone purchases a special Bonded Talent that allows them to bond to the item. When looking at opposition, I look towards the point values of the objects in addition to the characters to determine the threat.

If a player wants to create a magical object, it takes time, the Artificer Talent and the right skill (as well as coin to buy components and a workshop of some kind). To determine the roll mods, I usually take (AP/5) and subtract that from the roll. To determine how much it would cost to create, I use [(AP/5)xDM], where DM (Difficulty Modifier) depends on what's being made. For example, I have a mage that wants the following: Mage Staff: 8d6 NND (Magical Defense) Blast; 0 END, OAF (Staff) [100/50]. To start, he has to make a Magery check at -20 to succeed, and spend 200 gold in components to create. In addition, it's ruled that he must spend 200 hours on the device, imbuing the item with magical energies (at which time he can do nothing else beyond rest occasionally). Once this is done, the staff is his.

[IndianaJoe3]

Re: How are magic items (equipment) created in your setting?

 

For Independent' date=' if you don't make it limiting, it's not a Limitation, and if you do, it breaks the character. (If anyone is curious, I'm also opposed to paying points for Favors that go away or Charges that Never Recover.)[/quote']

 

This is exactly the reason why I don't think players should be allowed to buy Powers with Independent - it's exclusively for the GM. It's a big sign that says, "This Power will go away permanently at some point, so use it wisely."

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: How are magic items (equipment) created in your setting?

 

You're welcome to your own game style - but we've used Independant (and yes' date=' players spend points on independant items) for years, through multiple games and it's never broken anything. The idea you suggest simply rewards the player who spends lots of points to start with items - something I actually strongly dislike and discourage as a GM. I feel the character should be [b']the character[/b], not a life support system for his magic items.

 

Have you ever taken an Independent item away from a character? I mean really taken it away. Dropped it into the acidic lava volcano, etc.

[Starcloud]

Re: How are magic items (equipment) created in your setting?

 

I'd use the resource point rules and have them expend resource points to create magic items that can be used by anyone, rather than character points.

[Markdoc]

Re: How are magic items (equipment) created in your setting?

 

So' date=' if I read this correctly, you are actively seeking to [i']punish[/i] players for having characters whose concept involves items.

 

Nope: I'm trying to discourage them, not punish them. A character who sinks a majority of his points into items (I don't really care about minor items - I've often had PCs start with minor magical gee-gaws. I'm talking a major amount of points) is often annoying for both the other players and the GM. With the items, he is significantly more powerful, without them, he is often useless. This is true whether you have independant items or not. In other genres, it's not such an issue - you can deprive a player of his foci from time to time, without derailing the game as a whole, since games tend to be location based. But in Fantasy, the PCs are often on adventures involving extended travel. If you deprive a player of the magic whoosis of whatsit, and his opportunities to get new gear are limited, then the player is going to be stuck with a depowered character for what might be months of play.

 

I have allowed players to make characters who start a game with magic items: but to me, any player who sinks a lot of points into items is waving a red flag: it's rare to get a decent explanation as to why the player has a magic item. Can you suggest any fantasy archetypes who are item dependant?

 

Now this only applies to chargen: magic items acquired are a) just gear - they don't cost the characters XP and thus don't cripple the character if lost and given in the GM's purview.

 

I can imagine campaigns where there are few to no magic items in the setting and they are unavailable to PCs' date=' but I suspect you would face a player revolt if you tried it.[/quote']

 

You imagine incorrectly I ran (twice!) very popular campaigns that ran for years and where the magic items given away over those years of play were one (1) magic sword and one (1) potion of healing. The second time I ran that campaign (for a different group) the PCs gave the magic sword away. Another GM, (OFeelya on these boards) who ran the same campaign had the same experience. It's entirely possible to run fantasy games without players carrying masses of magic items: in fact, it's closer to most fantasy in books and film. The players seemed to appreciate it. I think you'd (quite rightly) face player revolt is everyone else had magic items and the players never seemed to get any. But if your basic assumption is that magic items are mostly items of legend, then it's really not a big deal.

 

cheers, Mark

[Markdoc]

Re: How are magic items (equipment) created in your setting?

 

Have you ever taken an Independent item away from a character? I mean really taken it away. Dropped it into the acidic lava volcano' date=' etc.[/quote']

 

Yup. Multiple times in the current campaign, alone, in fact. The players were told in advance and made little to no complaint when it happened. And two years on, they are all still playing with apparent enjoyment, so it doesn't seem to have harmed the game any. Now if they had sunk, say 50 or 100 points, into that power, it might be a different matter, but you'd have to be a pretty poor GM to allow such a character into play in the first place.

 

cheers, Mark

[Beast]

Re: How are magic items (equipment) created in your setting?

 

In Shadowsoul's New Dawn campaign we have both pay for it and what is found

my character has a dagger/bastard sword the group found(the sword grows and shrinks in size)she has paid nothing for it

what she did pay for was a sheath to conceal it when in dagger sized(+4 to concealment rolls)

the game is in 5th ed but I did not take Independant as this is more a variant of her Intimidating beauty/fearful countance spell(and it is only 1cp should she decide to make other use of the CP)

[Markdoc]

Re: How are magic items (equipment) created in your setting?

 

This is exactly the reason why I don't think players should be allowed to buy Powers with Independent - it's exclusively for the GM. It's a big sign that says' date=' "This Power will go away permanently at some point, so use it wisely."[/quote']

 

There are times it works exceedingly well, for players. In the current game, I have a form of magic called "gifts". Gifts are powers which are independant. They are not items as such, but magical powers. Gifts are always matched with Geases - so so with great power comes greatly odd behaviour and mages of this sort have to be very careful about all sorts of rituals - never going on the left side of a tomb, never enter a house unless invited, never speak to a red-haired man etc.

 

Break a geas and you lose the associated gift. It's a simple, straightforward magic system that gives something of the flavour of celtic myth where heroes often acquired magical powers or followers - that could be permanently lost, if they transgressed a geas.

 

Not every magic item or power needs independent. In fact, it's probably not appropriate most of the time: but sometimes it's a very useful tool.

 

cheers, Mark