How to deal with a "remote control" Superhero (or Villain)?

[Yansuf]

Recently I read a story where a "Superhero" was really a remote control robot used by its designer to fight evil.

It was not a robot per say, normally it was a remote control mechanical "avatar" of the designer. The public thought that it was a hero in a suit of powered armor, but really the man was back at his HQ operating it by remote control. It did have a limited capability to operate autonomously if the link was broken, but its capabilities were very limited without the link.

How would you build such a thing?

The two ways that I can think of are as a "duplicate", or as a "follower". But neither really seems correct.

Suggestions?

[Captain Obvious]

Re: How to deal with a "remote control" Superhero (or Villain)?

 

Duplicate. Why does it not seem right?

[Balabanto]

Re: How to deal with a "remote control" Superhero (or Villain)?

 

The real issue here is that this so-called concept breaks the "Kick the Kryptonite Out of the Way For Superman" rule. If the scientist controlling the robot is taken out, the robot is (Virtually) useless. However, the actual character (What we would think of as the main character in the story) is never in any real danger, unless the GM breaks the rules of fairness to do so. Pretty much, this is a character that's either super-functional, or dead in the water. Characters like this may be a whole lot of fun for the person playing them, but as far as the rest of the group, there could be significant issues.

 

As a villain, this concept is fine, but my advice is to build the robot as the main character and the scientist as the normal.

[Escafarc]

Re: How to deal with a "remote control" Superhero (or Villain)?

 

The real issue here is that this so-called concept breaks the "Kick the Kryptonite Out of the Way For Superman" rule. If the scientist controlling the robot is taken out, the robot is (Virtually) useless. However, the actual character (What we would think of as the main character in the story) is never in any real danger, unless the GM breaks the rules of fairness to do so. Pretty much, this is a character that's either super-functional, or dead in the water. Characters like this may be a whole lot of fun for the person playing them, but as far as the rest of the group, there could be significant issues.

 

As a villain, this concept is fine, but my advice is to build the robot as the main character and the scientist as the normal.

Build the scientist as a DNPC?

[Marcus Impudite]

Re: How to deal with a "remote control" Superhero (or Villain)?

 

Build the scientist as a DNPC?

Depends on how often the scientist is likely be in the line of fire himself. If practically never, then he doesn't count as a DNPC.

[Cygnia]

Re: How to deal with a "remote control" Superhero (or Villain)?

 

Maybe have "feedback" attacks as a Complication for the scientist (he has to be THAT hardwired in to work the robot, even if he is operating from a "safe" location)?

[Enforcer84]

Re: How to deal with a "remote control" Superhero (or Villain)?

 

The real issue here is that this so-called concept breaks the "Kick the Kryptonite Out of the Way For Superman" rule. If the scientist controlling the robot is taken out, the robot is (Virtually) useless. However, the actual character (What we would think of as the main character in the story) is never in any real danger, unless the GM breaks the rules of fairness to do so. Pretty much, this is a character that's either super-functional, or dead in the water. Characters like this may be a whole lot of fun for the person playing them, but as far as the rest of the group, there could be significant issues.

 

As a villain, this concept is fine, but my advice is to build the robot as the main character and the scientist as the normal.

 

What rule of fairness is broken by villains attacking the heroes' base on occasion? It certainly doesn't have to be an every day thing. Otherwise, I agree. the Scientist could be a follower, DNPC, or even Contact depending on their actual involvement.

[Alverant]

Re: How to deal with a "remote control" Superhero (or Villain)?

 

In 5th edition Arcane Enemies, there's a villain who does pretty much the same thing (he knows a spell that sends his soul into a statue) which was written up as a duplicate. A summon would work as well (if bought at +1 slavish devotion) and a limitation that the summoner was KO for the duration.

 

To keep the hero from being unfair to the other players, I would require the robot only works in a given range, could be hacked, and have low defenses. The last would make it damaged easily so people would realize it's just a robot being controlled (maybe even find a way to destroy the robot each session like Kenny in an episode of South Park). And when something is being controlled, there's a controller. A nice vulnerable controller ready to be ambushed.

[bneumeier]

Re: How to deal with a "remote control" Superhero (or Villain)?

 

Characters like this may be a whole lot of fun for the person playing them, but as far as the rest of the group, there could be significant issues.

 

As a villain, this concept is fine, but my advice is to build the robot as the main character and the scientist as the normal.

 

In case anyone is interested in an experience report:

 

I'm playing a character very like this in a current long-running Champions game -- as a hero -- and it doesn't seem to diminish the enjoyment of anyone else in the game that my character is never in any real danger.

 

It seems to me that the main objection to this kind of character would be based on the idea that a character must frequently be in danger of dying or else...some kind of problem will ensue. (I'm not sure what kind of problem is envisioned here, frankly. Lack of tension, or drama, maybe? I haven't noticed that happening.)

[Karmakaze]

Re: How to deal with a "remote control" Superhero (or Villain)?

 

I've done something like that with a convention game pre-gen (with any luck I linked that right) who does his heroic work as an astral projection. I did it as Duplication. There is one of the convention modules where, in fact, villains turn up at the secret id's house as a plot point.

 

Generally I do like Duplication for this sort of concept, optionally with Feedback. The robot duplicate would need the appropriate Complications to reflect what happens when the link is down (and then actually have that sort of thing come up from time to time.) I think the danger to the human behind the robot isn't much worse than the same problem some characters have with powered armor characters who never leave the battlesuit.

 

If the man behind the robot is really onle ever going to come up as color, then I might also go with making him a Follower, since at that point he's as much a SFX as a character.

[Nuclear Fridge]

Re: How to deal with a "remote control" Superhero (or Villain)?

 

In a sense, the 'Mainframe' character in Avengers Next was built on this premise. 'He' - he was a robotic frame - could be shredded by a sufficiently powerful attack, but he came back as a 'backup body'.

 

Perhaps you should ask why the scientist is using an avatar. Is he not able to get out in the field, much as Barbara Gordon (Oracle) was unable after the Joker shot her?

[csyphrett]

Re: How to deal with a "remote control" Superhero (or Villain)?

 

Recently I read a story where a "Superhero" was really a remote control robot used by its designer to fight evil.

It was not a robot per say, normally it was a remote control mechanical "avatar" of the designer. The public thought that it was a hero in a suit of powered armor, but really the man was back at his HQ operating it by remote control. It did have a limited capability to operate autonomously if the link was broken, but its capabilities were very limited without the link.

How would you build such a thing?

 

The two ways that I can think of are as a "duplicate", or as a "follower". But neither really seems correct.

Suggestions?

 

My initial thought was as a vechicle with its own computer to do commands.

 

The other way I would think of doing this is physical manisfestation for powers that operate on their own somehow.

CES

[Naanomi]

Re: How to deal with a "remote control" Superhero (or Villain)?

 

I've played a character like this and found A) It wasn't too much of a narrative stretch to get the 'real body' attacked fairly often... If the heroic body was reasonably difficult to replace, then it played no different than a very tough or resurrection/regeneration hero and C) In most super-hero genres outside of grittier iron age types, heroes were more often incapacitated or just failed to stop the villain than were in actual threat of death anyways, so the 'remoteness' often never even came up. YMMV of course.

[dmjalund]

Re: How to deal with a "remote control" Superhero (or Villain)?

 

Also it makes a great plot idea, that after all the heroes are down, thay have to be rescued by an invalid scientists armed with only the spare parts he can shove in the back of his van.

[Ice9]

Re: How to deal with a "remote control" Superhero (or Villain)?

 

C) In most super-hero genres outside of grittier iron age types, heroes were more often incapacitated or just failed to stop the villain than were in actual threat of death anyways, so the 'remoteness' often never even came up. YMMV of course.

My experience as well. Even in a gritty campaign, it's not like someone is dying every single session; given how vulnerable the real body is, threatening it occasionally is generally lethal enough. And for that matter, having the robot body destroyed is a pretty big setback, especially if trouble strikes before the new one can be fully completed/tested.

[JusticeZero]

Re: How to deal with a "remote control" Superhero (or Villain)?

 

Duplication, build the robot as the main character. Give some disadvantages like the ability to be hacked or cut off from communication. Might have limitations on dex too (Network latency is a pain if you have to dodge gunfire!)

 

I really do not see what the problem with this is; it sounds like a more reasonably built and limited hero than many others.

 

It sounds like the robot body is difficult if not impossible to replace, so the toon is still vulnerable in that sense. Blow up their robotic body, and they're going to be a whole lot of out of action unless they can come up with a way to get a new shell built/repurposed. Arguably many heroes have been less disabled by being actively killed, since a lot of them manage to cheat death in one way or another that involve rather large adventures.

 

Furthermore, there are many ways to be in dramatic tension that do not involve being in mortal peril from violence. I've seen players much more terrified about being cut off from research grants or a characters' favorite hobby than they ever got when they were being pummeled within an inch of their life. Seriously. I'm not all THAT worried about dying in battle. If I go down fighting, it's actually pretty cool, as long as it wasn't something really stupid and humiliating (getting soloed by a mook's DNPC or something like that). But things like 'Your roommate's stalker ex-boyfriend is harassing her' can really kinda get under your skin in it's own way.

[Balabanto]

Re: How to deal with a "remote control" Superhero (or Villain)?

 

What rule of fairness is broken by villains attacking the heroes' base on occasion? It certainly doesn't have to be an every day thing. Otherwise' date=' I agree. the Scientist could be a follower, DNPC, or even Contact depending on their actual involvement.[/quote']

 

If the character is played intelligently (And it takes a pretty intelligent person to come up with this idea), the character would never be near the Heroes base. He would be behind layers of firewalls, double shielded walls and the like, totally untraceable by mortal man, eating potato chips and drinking beer.

 

Attacking the heroes base is meaningless, because once you do this once, the character will just move. Once the villains figure out the trick, they will KILL him. Period. There is literally no reason to allow a guy like this to live, especially when you consider the alternatives. You can say "Well, that's a pretty hefty disadvantage." But the problem is that it's a massive force multiplier for the villains as SOON as the trick is figured out. This means that this character is likely to be far more powerful than his fellow heroes because of the limitations inherent in designing the character in the first place. Common sense clearly dictates that you destroy the controller as quckly as possible and then worry about the robot.

 

Plus...Sitting in a chair eating potato chips and drinking beer while others put their lives on the line is about as heroic as chewing gum while watching people get gunned down. I would refuse to play in a game where one of the players had a character that was actually never there. Powered Armor is superheroic and cool. This is cheesy and rules abuse.

[csyphrett]

Re: How to deal with a "remote control" Superhero (or Villain)?

 

I might be wrong but I think Yansuff only wants how to build this, not what we think about it, or how to run it. I think he knows his guys and his campaign better than we do.

CES

[Hyper-Man]

Re: How to deal with a "remote control" Superhero (or Villain)?

 

I might be wrong but I think Yansuff only wants how to build this, not what we think about it, or how to run it. I think he knows his guys and his campaign better than we do.

CES

 

I think a Follower with Mind Link is a valid solution.

 

from another recent thread:

Here is how I built one of the original wind manipulating super heroes: Red Tornado (the wind spirit and his android body)

 

The Wind Spirit is essentially the "pilot" (he's built with Always on Desolidification) and the Android Body is built using the vehicle rules. The 2 characters don't operate remotely from one another only because the Mind Link is built with 'No Range' because the character has never demonstrated such an ability in the comics AFAIK. However, the Limitation could certainly be removed to make such a combination truly 'Remote'.