What have your experiences been with a Teleportation as an attack?

[phoenix240]

I and my fellow GMs in our group game have avoided Teleportation attack (the ability to teleport a target against their will) as a general rule for PC (and out of fairness NPCs) so far. Recently a potential character was submitted that would reasonably have that ability and we've been discussing allowing it. As GMs what has been your experience with the ability in play? Has it proved workaBble or been unbalancing?

[Martin2]

Re: What have your experiences been with a Teleportation as an attack?

 

I have a teleporter player.

 

I have allowed:

 

Ranged teleport 20m. So he can teleport a target 20m in any direction but not into an object for the random teleport damage.

 

Blast 6D6 NND (defence teleportation etc)- Teleport in and out of existance for stunning attack.

 

2d6 RKA NND (defence teleportation etc) - teleport things into people or bits off people. Nasty but the equivilent of other energy attacks (he wanted the objects to be grenades for a lot more damage but I said no that is beyond the points cost of the power)

 

Same effect as any other energy attack user. The random teleport damage is a bit over powered as you only need ranged teleport 1m (ie straight down into the floor) to get the possibility of serious unbalanced damage.

[Escafarc]

Re: What have your experiences been with a Teleportation as an attack?

 

As long as the attack is within the campaign AP/DC limits it shouldn't be that big of a deal. Though I have a character with a Teleport VPP with a 42 AP(6 Real Cost) slot that can do 30 DCs so like all UaAs it needs to be approved by the GM for balance reasons.

[RexMundi]

Re: What have your experiences been with a Teleportation as an attack?

 

Never had problems with it, but then I tend not to believe in limits so I allow pretty much anything a player is willing to face themselves.

 

~Rex

[Bloodstone]

Re: What have your experiences been with a Teleportation as an attack?

 

Kinda depends on what build you will be using... something like 10m Teleportation UAA is VERY potent in the hands of a creative player.

 

Defenses against it tend to be less than common for your normal out of the box opponent, so it's somethign that can catch you off guard easily if not prepared.

 

OAF using villains will tend to become push overs,

 

IMX, it's potentially unbalanced on it's own, but it get's ridiculous fast once you start adding certain advantages and adders. Especially Megascale and Position Shift. Ranged and Indirect was a pretty brutal combo too as I recall...

 

When the answer to every problem is the teleporter saying "I 'port him into Stronghold/Space/The Sun", things have probably gotten out of hand...

 

But again, the expensive nature of the build generally keeps that sort of thing out of grasp of most characters.

 

One of the GM's that allowed it eventually required that it could be blocked by Power Defense and also enforced a strict mass limit on it (reduced the amount that could be ported, as he didn;t realize quite how powerful the ability could be initially)

 

Another required a bunch of extra limitations so that it wouldn't be easy to use as a normal attack and was more of a utility ability.

[Escafarc]

Re: What have your experiences been with a Teleportation as an attack?

 

We don't allow Megascale on Movement Powers UaA because Megascale Movement is considered Non-Combat movement.

[BoloOfEarth]

Re: What have your experiences been with a Teleportation as an attack?

 

I don't think Teleport UAO is unbalancing, as long as limits are set and understood.

 

As to OAF using villains, I'd make sure I assigned size bonuses to DCV for foci up-front, because it will become an issue. And I'd make sure the player understands that teleporting away Inaccessible foci won't be allowed. Period.

 

That said, one of the first adventures I'd run that character through would involve a hostage situation. Just so the hero can teleport the hostage to safety.

[hfergus]

Re: What have your experiences been with a Teleportation as an attack?

 

I have a character that can use teleport as an attack, and it is not too unbalancing. Reasons: 1)no teleporting into solid objects (safe teleport only, and he cannot turn it off.) 2) limited charges. about the only time he uses it as an attack is on non-flyers. 20" straight up. He calls these "Flying lessons. And bounces don't count."

[Dr. MID-Nite]

Re: What have your experiences been with a Teleportation as an attack?

 

Well....if I recall correctly....you still have to make a to hit roll on the target for this ability to be effective...correct? That should help limit it right there...at least a bit.

[Greywind]

Re: What have your experiences been with a Teleportation as an attack?

 

I don't have a character that uses Teleport itself as an attack, but rather as the basis for an interesting Missile Reflection defense.

[Whippersnapper]

Re: What have your experiences been with a Teleportation as an attack?

 

I actually have a low-level character who can teleport friends, enemies, and/or inanimate objects 4 hexes. He can also go Desolid, but since he has no attacks, he basically just distracts and disrupts the enemy while his friends move to flank.

 

I probably could do the "Teleport up and let fall" trick without it being unbalanced, but my character is borderline pacifistic, so I've instead just been drawing enemy gunfire and defusing hostage situations.

 

Also, my character didn't have any points left for defense, so I don't dare try teleporting offensively if it would mean I'd have to drop my Desolid!

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: What have your experiences been with a Teleportation as an attack?

 

I've never observed a problem with it. I certainly would not recommend allowing noncombat multiples or Megascale on it; OAF using opponents are typically screwed in any event, as someone will target their foci for destruction or disarming early on. I also rule that possessing whatever 'reasonably common' defense stops the teleporting from working protects their foci, as a side note.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: What have your experiences been with a Teleportation as an attack?

 

I've never observed a problem with it. I certainly would not recommend allowing noncombat multiples or Megascale on it; OAF using opponents are typically screwed in any event' date=' as someone will target their foci for destruction or disarming early on. I also rule that possessing whatever 'reasonably common' defense stops the teleporting from working protects their foci, as a side note.[/quote']

 

I see two answers for noncombat multiples or Megascale.

 

First option: Since the movement power is noncombat, to use it as an attack requires the user to go noncombat - that means, when I use my UAA Megascale Teleport, my DCV drops to zero and it takes me a full phase.

 

Second option: It cannot be used on a target in combat unless the target voluntarily goes to noncombat mode, as the advantages work only if the Teleporter goes to noncombat.

[BoloOfEarth]

Re: What have your experiences been with a Teleportation as an attack?

 

I see two answers for noncombat multiples or Megascale.

 

First option: Since the movement power is noncombat, to use it as an attack requires the user to go noncombat - that means, when I use my UAA Megascale Teleport, my DCV drops to zero and it takes me a full phase.

 

Second option: It cannot be used on a target in combat unless the target voluntarily goes to noncombat mode, as the advantages work only if the Teleporter goes to noncombat.

 

As to the First Option, the DCV is halved, not zero. It's the OCV that's 0. (See 6E1 300.) Also, it takes an extra phase to Noncombat Teleport, and during both phases the teleporter is 0 OCV, 1/2 DCV. So I suppose a teleporter could Megascale teleport somebody, but given the 0 OCV, it's really only usable on unconscious foes or willing friends.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: What have your experiences been with a Teleportation as an attack?

 

I see two answers for noncombat multiples or Megascale.

 

First option: Since the movement power is noncombat, to use it as an attack requires the user to go noncombat - that means, when I use my UAA Megascale Teleport, my DCV drops to zero and it takes me a full phase.

 

Second option: It cannot be used on a target in combat unless the target voluntarily goes to noncombat mode, as the advantages work only if the Teleporter goes to noncombat.

 

What was wrong with the third option, 'no'?

[phoenix240]

Re: What have your experiences been with a Teleportation as an attack?

 

Thanks for all the feed back. Our main concern is the ability to do heavy damage to many targets fairly simply by teleporting them high in the air. Flight is oddly rare in our games among PCs and NPCs alike. Not sure why...

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: What have your experiences been with a Teleportation as an attack?

 

Thanks for all the feed back. Our main concern is the ability to do heavy damage to many targets fairly simply by teleporting them high in the air. Flight is oddly rare in our games among PCs and NPCs alike. Not sure why...

 

Well, assuming 60 AP Caps, after applying Usable As Attack and Ranged, you have 12" of Teleport. If I'm remembering the falling rules right, that means 10d6 damage from the fall (fall 5", then hit during the fall 10" segment), though there's a high probability of being rendered knocked down by the fall, and melee-only targets will have to hold their action until they land to try to do anything.

[Christopher]

Re: What have your experiences been with a Teleportation as an attack?

 

Thanks for all the feed back. Our main concern is the ability to do heavy damage to many targets fairly simply by teleporting them high in the air. Flight is oddly rare in our games among PCs and NPCs alike. Not sure why...

That is one of the problems I have with movement UAA (or generaly self-only powers with UAA). People trying to use it to make damage or circumvent the normally good defenses vs. unwanted movement (high STR and KB-Resistance).

And the 12" are even way worse if you use it to teleport someone 12" - to the oposite side of a Window in the 50th Floor. Or the other side of the Floor/Ceiling. I always think something like TK (Only complete object, limited directions) to "throw the target up in the air" or "shove it X meters in that direction" is always better for such a power. Even if the SFX is Teleportation and the target moves (visually) in one moment, not rising like you expect with normal TK.

[Escafarc]

Re: What have your experiences been with a Teleportation as an attack?

 

That is one of the problems I have with movement UAA (or generaly self-only powers with UAA). People trying to use it to make damage or circumvent the normally good defenses vs. unwanted movement (high STR and KB-Resistance).

And the 12" are even way worse if you use it to teleport someone 12" - to the oposite side of a Window in the 50th Floor. Or the other side of the Floor/Ceiling. I always think something like TK (Only complete object, limited directions) to "throw the target up in the air" or "shove it X meters in that direction" is always better for such a power. Even if the SFX is Teleportation and the target moves (visually) in one moment, not rising like you expect with normal TK.

 

Those powers don't work the same as Teleport, they don't allow the target to pass through walls.

[Christopher]

Re: What have your experiences been with a Teleportation as an attack?

 

Those powers don't work the same as Teleport' date=' they don't allow the target to pass through walls.[/quote']

Generally telporting him to the other side of a wall/ceiling/floor is one of the most problematic uses and falls under "not save teleport" most of the times. When you can teleport someone 3-5 floors up, he could be disabeled for multiple turns (dependign on tunneling speed or casual/full attack STR or just where the stairs are. And that still uses Endurance). And let's not forget the ability to transport him to the ohter side of a windows - the side where there is no floor and he drops do his (possible)death and certainly a long way to climb up again. Or the other side of an enemy B, so the Attack hits B instead.

So I would apply "only direct line through inoccupied space" to that Offensive Teleportation anyway.

 

And if you still want to be able to "t-port" him to the otehr side of a wall, take an Advantage on the TK for this (not a big one. After all you can't smash him into walls that way) and the entire results is still better balanced than Teleport UAA.

If you don't want to be able to move him throug walls, take "Only whole Object", "Can't be used to smash into objects" and "Only in a direct line" to it.

 

Reason he can resist Stealing of his Focus/unwanted Movement: The t-port requires the item to be stationary, so the "offensive T-port" locks the target in postion first. When the "lock" is broken (won the STR contest), he can't teleport the target.

So we got the balance of TK, with the SFX of Teleporting.

[Christopher]

Re: What have your experiences been with a Teleportation as an attack?

 

There is one recent citate (and new add to my signature) that sums it pretty much up:

If it looks like a duck' date=' and sounds like a duck, it might just be a duck-flavored Killing Attack [/quote']

[Escafarc]

Re: What have your experiences been with a Teleportation as an attack?

 

Generally telporting him to the other side of a wall/ceiling/floor is one of the most problematic uses and falls under "not save teleport" most of the times. When you can teleport someone 3-5 floors up, he could be disabeled for multiple turns (dependign on tunneling speed or casual/full attack STR or just where the stairs are. And that still uses Endurance). And let's not forget the ability to transport him to the ohter side of a windows - the side where there is no floor and he drops do his (possible)death and certainly a long way to climb up again. Or the other side of an enemy B, so the Attack hits B instead.

So I would apply "only direct line through inoccupied space" to that Offensive Teleportation anyway.

 

And if you still want to be able to "t-port" him to the otehr side of a wall, take an Advantage on the TK for this (not a big one. After all you can't smash him into walls that way) and the entire results is still better balanced than Teleport UAA.

If you don't want to be able to move him throug walls, take "Only whole Object", "Can't be used to smash into objects" and "Only in a direct line" to it.

 

Reason he can resist Stealing of his Focus/unwanted Movement: The t-port requires the item to be stationary, so the "offensive T-port" locks the target in postion first. When the "lock" is broken (won the STR contest), he can't teleport the target.

So we got the balance of TK, with the SFX of Teleporting.

I'll just say that I wouldn't allow TK to be used in place of TPort for this in my game, I believe in the KISS principle.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: What have your experiences been with a Teleportation as an attack?

 

I'll just say that I wouldn't allow TK to be used in place of TPort for this in my game' date=' I believe in the KISS principle.[/quote']

 

That, and the TK simply doesn't do what the power is supposed to do.

[RexMundi]

Re: What have your experiences been with a Teleportation as an attack?

 

If it's in a Comic Book (And this is), I allow it. It's got enough built in limitations to make it no more dangerous then other folks, and it's actually harder to do some things with it then a basic grab/throw, or moving variation of those themes.

 

~Rex....then there are Hit Locations....and such....so on and so forth.

[薔薇語]

Re: What have your experiences been with a Teleportation as an attack?

 

A very simple 2m, Pos. Shift, UAA teleport can be very devastating to a game. It basically says that all enemies will be prone for the rest of combat once the T. Porter lands the first hit. He can teleport them into the exact same spot they stand (or slightly adjusted) but face down n' prone. In other words, it is the 'set up' of a "set them up and knock em down" combo. One that would be hard to justifiably counter with any normal shlub villain.

 

La Rose.