Pattern Ghost Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 Re: The Good and Bad about Marvel and DC .[ATTACH=CONFIG]44028[/ATTACH] ~Rex....here's the debut page in the old Ms. Marvel book from back in the 35 cent cover days for folks that seem to think it's the Warbird costume...[ATTACH=CONFIG]44029[/ATTACH] You know, if I was going to update her costume to get rid of the one piece look (not that I would), I'd just turn the thing into a unitard (ie, color the legs in), give her some real boots with a small amount of red accents, and shorter gloves, with red accents. Leave everything else the same as the above pics. Also, I prefer the longer hair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
culhwch Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 Re: The Good and Bad about Marvel and DC Just to show how opinions can differ, I'd easily put "Super Hero Squad" on the "Bad" list. I've never understood the appeal of that show. Something both Marvel and kid-oriented I'd put on the "Good" list would be Chris Giarusso's old Mini-Marvels. This I'd have to agree with. I dropped Super Hero Squad after three episodes. Avengers: Earth's Mightest Heroes is on my Good list, currently, but it is borderline. DC Good: Young Justice DC Bad: Green Lantern: The Animated Series (borderline liked how the story progressed through the first season; did not like the animation). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassandra Posted July 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 Re: The Good and Bad about Marvel and DC I've only seen a couple of episodes but I agree with you about Young Justice. Maggie Q as the voice of Wonder Woman is cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 Re: The Good and Bad about Marvel and DC Just to show how opinions can differ' date=' I'd easily put "Super Hero Squad" on the "Bad" list. I've never understood the appeal of that show.[/quote'] I don't much like it myself. My ten year old loves it, and often finds it hilarious. He's the target demographic, not me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassandra Posted July 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 Re: The Good and Bad about Marvel and DC Good about DC The Birds of Prey Bat about DC The Birds of Prey TV series While this series had a number of good things about it, such as the cast especially Dina Meyer as Barbara Gordon, it has to be considered a failued oppertunity for a number a reasons. First is has Batman retired, Catwoman dead, and Huntress having superhuman powers. Second is doens't give us Black Canary the comic book character, but a heroine with different powers and back story. On the plus side it had Lori Loughlin as the original, but then killed her off. Third, no costumes except for Batgirl in flashbacks. Call me old fashioned but superheroines should wear costumes. Good about DC The Birds of Prey DVD release has the entire run of the Gotham Girls online cartoons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kahuna's bro Posted July 26, 2012 Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 Re: The Good and Bad about Marvel and DC iagree with this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew_A Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 Re: The Good and Bad about Marvel and DC Good about DC The Birds of Prey Bat about DC The Birds of Prey TV series While this series had a number of good things about it, such as the cast especially Dina Meyer as Barbara Gordon, it has to be considered a failued oppertunity for a number a reasons. First is has Batman retired, Catwoman dead, and Huntress having superhuman powers. Second is doens't give us Black Canary the comic book character, but a heroine with different powers and back story. On the plus side it had Lori Loughlin as the original, but then killed her off. Third, no costumes except for Batgirl in flashbacks. Call me old fashioned but superheroines should wear costumes. Good about DC The Birds of Prey DVD release has the entire run of the Gotham Girls online cartoons. I've never read the BoP comic, but I did watch the TV series. It wasn't bad, but there were two things I despised. The first was the previously mentioned super-Huntress, but the thing that annoyed me the most was little miss Buffy-in-all-but-name. She was so irritating. Black Canary is an interesting character and they replaced her with some cliched psychic girl. Worse they tried to make her funny and touching. She came off as neither (at least to me). Earlier, I mentioned Buffy. In all honesty, she seemed like some network hack's idea of what Buffy must be like, without having to go to the trouble of actually watching the show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassandra Posted July 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 Re: The Good and Bad about Marvel and DC Buffy syndrome, where a show thinks it has a group of interesting characters to back the heroine, also ruined Veronica Mars. That had her tendency to drink roofie laced drinks every other week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassandra Posted July 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 Re: The Good and Bad about Marvel and DC Good About DC Lex Luthor as President Lex is the ultimate human being, using is brilliant mind to become rich, famous, and powerful. His obsession with destroying Superman who he considers the only real threat was the source of his downfall. By making him President of the United States he finally achieved a level of power as great as the Man of Steel. Too bad he didn't do more like Lane Davies as Tempus on Lois and Clark "Meet John Doe" and "Lois and Clarks". I'm almost sure that's where the comic writers got the idea from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassandra Posted July 31, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2012 Re: The Good and Bad about Marvel and DC Good About DC The original Black Orchid, a mysterious super strong crime fighter with a give for disguise. No origin needed. Bad About DC New younger edgier versions of popular characters that even DC eventually admitted were horrible mistakes Examples The new Black Orchid being an abused wife easily caught and killed by Lex Luthor and then replaced by a plant. The six Batgirls that tried to replace Barbara Gordon. The new Green Arrow, Conner Hawke The new Superboy, Conner Kent More Bad about DC Donna Troy having her name and powers and origin changed by anyone who showed up at DC's offices. Her being a Manhunter was suggested by the UPS guy who was dropping off Neil Gaiman's monthly Spider-Man for goodness sake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassandra Posted July 31, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2012 Re: The Good and Bad about Marvel and DC Bad About Marvel The Next Avengers DVD - I mentioned this before, but I think was wasn't clear. The A-Next comic book line I don't really have a problem with. I really don't care about Marvel's potential future characters because when you get down to it you can't count on anyone having a future there. The Next Avengers movie begins with all the Avengers killed off by Ultron, and Iron Man raising the children of the original members. It's like if they made a cartoon versions of The Day After. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew_A Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 Re: The Good and Bad about Marvel and DC Good About DC The original Black Orchid, a mysterious super strong crime fighter with a give for disguise. No origin needed. Bad About DC New younger edgier versions of popular characters that even DC eventually admitted were horrible mistakes Examples The new Black Orchid being an abused wife easily caught and killed by Lex Luthor and then replaced by a plant. I'm not a Black Orchid fan, but I agree with you up to a point.* Throwing out everything that made a character cool, for your own take, is silly. I hate the "everything-you-know-is-wrong" trope. Although, done right, the results are amazing. Sadly, it's rarely done right. The funny thing is, in interviews, Neil Gaiman considers Black Orchid (the miniseries) to be his weakest work. Minor correction: The Black Orchid who died was always a plant. She was a clone of the easily abused house wife. It's implied that she became Black Orchid to avenge the original's death. The six Batgirls that tried to replace Barbara Gordon. There were only six?! I must have added a decimal point somewhere. The new Green Arrow, Conner Hawke Didn't read his comic. They never should have gotten rid of the trick arrows. The new Superboy, Conner Kent Best thing to come out of Reign of the Supermen. Donna Troy having her name and powers and origin changed by anyone who showed up at DC's offices. Her being a Manhunter was suggested by the UPS guy who was dropping off Neil Gaiman's monthly Spider-Man for goodness sake. George Perez screwed up a great character. Admittedly, he did it while rebooting Wonder Woman and that turned out great (until Mike Deodato showed up), so for that, I'll forgive him. *Honesty compels me to admit that I did like the Neil Gaiman miniseries. (More than Neil did, oddly enough.) For a long time, it was the only thing he did that I found readable. At least, until I read Good Omens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbywolfe Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 Re: The Good and Bad about Marvel and DC The new Superboy, Conner Kent Best thing to come out of Reign of the Supermen. I would agree with you AA if Conner Kent was the Superboy that came out of reign of the Supermen, but he isn't. The horribly stupid retcon that made him both half Kryptonian and related to Lex Luther basically ruined the character. He was a more interesting character when he was a genetically engineered clone whose powers were made to mimic Superman's, yet were distinctly different. He had a too much attitude for his own good, but it was better than the emo crap they pulled with him later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew_A Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 Re: The Good and Bad about Marvel and DC I would agree with you AA if Conner Kent was the Superboy that came out of reign of the Supermen' date=' but he isn't. The horribly stupid retcon that made him both half Kryptonian and related to Lex Luther basically ruined the character. He was a more interesting character when he was a genetically engineered clone whose powers were made to mimic Superman's, yet were distinctly different. He had a too much attitude for his own good, but it was better than the emo crap they pulled with him later.[/quote'] More or less in agreement. The problem with DC's Didiocracy, is that fun is a four letter word. Which just proves that the people at DC can't do math or spell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 Re: The Good and Bad about Marvel and DC George Perez screwed up a great character. Admittedly' date=' he did it while rebooting Wonder Woman and that turned out great (until Mike Deodato showed up), so for that, I'll forgive him.[/quote'] How did George screw her up? He's the one that originally tried straightening out the character's origin issues with Who Is Donna Troy? Sadly, Byrne got in there somewhere and we ended up with Who Is Donna Troy This Time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew_A Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 Re: The Good and Bad about Marvel and DC How did George screw her up? He's the one that originally tried straightening out the character's origin issues with Who Is Donna Troy? Sadly, Byrne got in there somewhere and we ended up with Who Is Donna Troy This Time? I don't think we're thinking of the same storyline, but the "Who is Donna Troy?" story that I remember, was a really well done pre-Crisis New Teen Titans story by Marv Wolfman (with art by Perez). The screw up I was referring to, was the George Perez post-Crisis Wonder Woman reboot, where Diana had just started her career with no Wonder Girl. He and Wolfman tried to fix it with "Who is Wonder Girl?", but personally, I preferred the old status quo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 Re: The Good and Bad about Marvel and DC Wonder Girl was screwed up from her first appearance. She was added to the Teen Titans by a writer who didn't realize the Wonder Girl stories which had been run in Wonder Woman were about Diana as a girl, and not a separate character. Everything since that is technically a retcon. You can certainly select the retcon you prefer. The WW reboot altering Donna Troy's history has nothing on Byrne's Man of Steel removing Superboy from Legion continuity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 Re: The Good and Bad about Marvel and DC The whole point there was that there never was a Superboy. It wasn't until he was an adult that Superman put in an appearance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clonus Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 Re: The Good and Bad about Marvel and DC While this series had a number of good things about it, such as the cast especially Dina Meyer as Barbara Gordon, it has to be considered a failued oppertunity for a number a reasons. First is has Batman retired, Catwoman dead, and Huntress having superhuman powers. Second is doens't give us Black Canary the comic book character, but a heroine with different powers and back story. On the plus side it had Lori Loughlin as the original, but then killed her off. Third, no costumes except for Batgirl in flashbacks. Call me old fashioned but superheroines should wear costumes. [ATTACH=CONFIG]44125[/ATTACH] Huntress may not have worn a mask, but she was definitely wearing a costume. I just regret that I never got to see the Smallville BOP crossover. Dinah was dead weight though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassandra Posted August 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 Re: The Good and Bad about Marvel and DC Good About DC Wonder Woman! Her costume, mystic origin, powers, secret identity, and enemies gave us decades of stories all based on the original character created by William Moulton Marsden (aka Charles Moulton), and drawn by H.G. Peter. The Wonder Woman TV show. The first season was the best in my opinion, light hearted adventure without the camp appeal of Adam West's Batman. Lynda Carter looked great in the costume and rose above the material. Bad things about DC Wonder Woman post Crisis. First they got rid of all of her original back up characters, turned her into a celebrity, resist becoming a superheroine (which seems contray to having her in a comic book), rob her of all logic and dignity, make her mundane, then give her a mission to bring peace to humanity, gave her a "West Wing" style staff with a Minotar, then for a brief moment returned her to being an intelligence operative working with an updated Steve Trevor and Etta Candy but threw it all away with nonsensical stories, and finally rewrote the origin style with art that seems to have been drawn by someone who have never been outside, or seen an actual woman before. Sorry if I'm being vague. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kahuna's bro Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 Re: The Good and Bad about Marvel and DC The whole point there was that there never was a Superboy. It wasn't until he was an adult that Superman put in an appearance.that was mr byrnes take on supes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 Re: The Good and Bad about Marvel and DC Wonder Woman post Crisis. First they got rid of all of her original back up characters, turned her into a celebrity, resist becoming a superheroine (which seems contray to having her in a comic book), rob her of all logic and dignity, make her mundane, then give her a mission to bring peace to humanity, gave her a "West Wing" style staff with a Minotar, then for a brief moment returned her to being an intelligence operative working with an updated Steve Trevor and Etta Candy but threw it all away with nonsensical stories, and finally rewrote the origin style with art that seems to have been drawn by someone who have never been outside, or seen an actual woman before. Sorry if I'm being vague. Perez was trying to ground her more in the Greek mythos. The characters were there. Steve, Etta and the rest. They just weren't as invested as they were before. I liked that take on things while Perez was attached to it. It was after he left that I ended up dropping the book. that was mr byrnes take on supes And there was nothing wrong with it. The Legion by definition could be Elsewhere books. They aren't bound by continuity, because the writers of any Legion books aren't going to be knowing what the rest are coming up with for the other books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RexMundi Posted August 3, 2012 Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 Re: The Good and Bad about Marvel and DC that was mr byrnes take on supes Actually it was 90% DC, and had a lot to do with the issues of the rights to Superboy which weren't settled until recently. ~Rex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassandra Posted August 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2012 Re: The Good and Bad about Marvel and DC Good About DC Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Many ideas that ended up in the comics took place on the show. Lois and Clark getting married. A clone of Superman seeing Luthor as his Father as Superboy did (although that was also the Bizarro version as well). A super villain becoming President of the United States (Tempus instead of Lex Luthor) Plus you had Lex Luthor as the ruthless criminal mastermind with the facade of a billionaire industrialist. Wasn't the scientific genius that we know and love to hate. By the way, am I the only one who thinks Cold Play's Viva La Vida should be Lex Luthor's Theme Song? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew_A Posted August 6, 2012 Report Share Posted August 6, 2012 Re: The Good and Bad about Marvel and DC Good About DC Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman Many ideas that ended up in the comics took place on the show. Lois and Clark getting married. A clone of Superman seeing Luthor as his Father as Superboy did (although that was also the Bizarro version as well). A super villain becoming President of the United States (Tempus instead of Lex Luthor) Plus you had Lex Luthor as the ruthless criminal mastermind with the facade of a billionaire industrialist. Wasn't the scientific genius that we know and love to hate. By the way, am I the only one who thinks Cold Play's Viva La Vida should be Lex Luthor's Theme Song? Actually, Lois and Clark didn't lead to the titular couple getting married. It was the creative team on the Superman comics deciding they should get married. The plan was that they got engaged in Superman #50 and the wedding was supposed to happen in #75. Unfortunately the TV people balked. They told Mike Carlin (the Superman group editor at the time) and all the rest of them that Lois and Clark couldn't get married until they (the TV people) were ready. So, at one of DC's writer's retreats, they tried to figure out what to do for the 75th issue. They needed something big, something momentous. Then someone (I think it was Roger Stern) joked, "Why don't we kill him?" To which Mike Carlin replied, "Yeah? And then what?" You know the rest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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