Dwarven weapons are better

[Ninja-Bear]

Hello fantasy fiends,

 

I started to GM some fantasy these past few months.  Now in honor to teach my brother, we've been using a group of dwarves.  It has me thinking though, if dwarves are master blacksmiths and by extension weaponsmiths, what game mechanical advantage should a dwarven weapon have versus the standard listed weapon? Perhaps an additional +1 OCV? Or how about a smaller STR min. say two less than listed?  Im looking for something that distingushes the dwarven type as superior to human, but not so overwhelmingly so.  So what advice do you guys have?

 

And as always thanks in advance.

 

[L. Marcus]

Lesser weight but still the same damage; more BODY and/or rPD/rED; perhaps a +1 pip on damage; if it has a pick at the back, make it a Multipower with a Armor Piercing slot for the same total of points ...

[Cancer]

Smaller breakage probability might be enough, though that is often glossed over in RPGs.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Dwarven weapons are tough! if you plan to use weapon breakage rules, i would give dwarven weapons +1 to +2 def and +1 body.

 

I would also drop the strength minimum by 1 point. if their weapons are supremely balanced, i'd give them +1 ocv. if they could be honed to a razor edge and keep that edge for long periods of time, i would give that weapon +1 damage class.

 

I would only ever give the weapons 1 or 2 of these benefits. you can also vary the benefits depending on the specific smith and his families blacksmithing secrets.

 

Perhaps the macdougal clan creates light, but razor sharp blades and axes, while the stoneflagger clan makes supremely balanced, yet durable weapons...

[Beast]

I'd give a lesser Str min,but only for custom built for the wielder

[mhd]

I'd determine what they're actually better at in-game and work backwards from that. But only if it is significant, a lot of the differences just aren't caught by even a +1 modifier. Even within "human" weaponry there's a lot of difference that often isn't reflected in game stats.

 

If it's just better forging techniques and not something near supernatural, I'd personally just go with increased durability (if that comes up), and of course they're worth more. In certain situations using Dwarven weaponry might qualify for a PRE bonus, too. I'd probably need a bit more to mess with OCV or Min STR...

[Ninja-Bear]

Great suggestions all. Hmmm what about +1 OCV only to add to DC?

[L. Marcus]

Hum ... What would the SFX for that be?

[Lucius]

Give Dwarves a Striking Appearance, Limited Group (weapons buyers)

 

That's a +1 (or more) to Trading, Persuasion, Oratory, etc, only to convince people that Dwarven Weapons are Better

 

Lucius Alexander

 

I'd rather have a palindromedary

[NuSoardGraphite]

Great suggestions all. Hmmm what about +1 OCV only to add to DC?

Are you talking about +1 OCV, only to add to Critical Hits? (-1)

 

Or are you using a system where a better to-hit roll generates more damage?

[L. Marcus]

No, I suspect it's just an extension of the usual 2-OCV-sacrificed-converts-to-1-DC system.

[The Weapon]

Dwarven weapons are tough! if you plan to use weapon breakage rules, i would give dwarven weapons +1 to +2 def and +1 body.

 

I would also drop the strength minimum by 1 point. if their weapons are supremely balanced, i'd give them +1 ocv. if they could be honed to a razor edge and keep that edge for long periods of time, i would give that weapon +1 damage class.

 

I would only ever give the weapons 1 or 2 of these benefits. you can also vary the benefits depending on the specific smith and his families blacksmithing secrets.

 

Perhaps the macdougal clan creates light, but razor sharp blades and axes, while the stoneflagger clan makes supremely balanced, yet durable weapons...

 

Or they just don't break, period.  If you buy a Dwarven weapon your grandson's grandson grandson should sharpen it every year.  Not that it needs it, just a respect thing.

[NuSoardGraphite]

No, I suspect it's just an extension of the usual 2-OCV-sacrificed-converts-to-1-DC system.

This system a 6e addition?

[Kraven Kor]

I think others nailed it so far, but I would add limited Skill Levels or Penalty Skill Levels as another option.

 

Dwarven Crossbows might have +2 to Offset Range Penalty.  

 

A Dwarven Polearm might have +2 to Offset "Constricted Environment" Penalties, for fighting in narrow tunnels.

 

A Dwarven Double-sided War Axe might have +2 OCV with Sweeps.

 

Weapon bonuses and such can get really creative and give a lot more differentiation to various weapons, if one wants.

[Kraven Kor]

This system a 6e addition?

 

Nope.

 

I don't recall how far back this goes, but since at least 4th Edition, you can choose to apply 2 Combat Skill Levels to increase the Damage Class of an attack by 1 Damage Class.  Just like you can "spread" attacks and reduce Damage Classes to increase OCV (-2 Damage Classes for +1 OCV, IIRC.)

[lemming]

Nope.

 

I don't recall how far back this goes, but since at least 4th Edition, you can choose to apply 2 Combat Skill Levels to increase the Damage Class of an attack by 1 Damage Class.  Just like you can "spread" attacks and reduce Damage Classes to increase OCV (-2 Damage Classes for +1 OCV, IIRC.)

+1 DC for two levels goes back to first edition of Fantasy Hero.   (Spreading is one DC gives one OCV though)

[Ninja-Bear]

For the record, L. Marcus was right to what I was thinking.

[Ternaugh]

Or they just don't break, period.  If you buy a Dwarven weapon your grandson's grandson grandson should sharpen it every year.  Not that it needs it, just a respect thing.

 

“This, milord, is my family's axe. We have owned it for almost nine hundred years, see. Of course, sometimes it needed a new blade. And sometimes it has required a new handle, new designs on the metalwork, a little refreshing of the ornamentation . . . but is this not the nine hundred-year-old axe of my family? And because it has changed gently over time, it is still a pretty good axe, y'know. Pretty good.”

― Terry Pratchett, The Fifth Elephant (via Goodreads.com)

[Old Man]

But the real question is, which is better--dwarven weapons, or elven weapons?  And how? 

[Ninja-Bear]

Old man I was going to ask that next.

[L. Marcus]

For the record, L. Marcus was right to what I was thinking.

Yay! *happy dance*

 

But the real question is, which is better--dwarven weapons, or elven weapons?  And how? 

 

 

Old man I was going to ask that next.

For my campaign, apples and oranges. Elves have developed composite bows that are impervious to wet conditions and can remain stringed indefinitely; the race have never moved beyond bronze, but the bronze they make never gets tarnished and never loses the edge (no Real Weapon Limitations). Their weapons are bows, spears, long knives and short swords. 

 

Dwarves have the traditional inclinations, apart from not living their entire lives underground (they do live in hills and mountains, and their citadels make Krak des Chevaliers look like a sand castle). As such, craftsmen are valued and the things they make are very varied, and different masters in different holds make their weapons differently -- the things covered in this thread would fit, one or two properties per smith.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Nope.

I don't recall how far back this goes, but since at least 4th Edition, you can choose to apply 2 Combat Skill Levels to increase the Damage Class of an attack by 1 Damage Class.  Just like you can "spread" attacks and reduce Damage Classes to increase OCV (-2 Damage Classes for +1 OCV, IIRC.)

Oh, thats just using 2 combat skill levels to add +1 to DC. I dont consider that "sacrificing ocv", its simply one of the many things you can do with a combat skill level.

 

For a minute there i thought i missed a rule all these years.

 

I have used +2 CSL only to increase DC before, but its really inefficient. better off just buying deadly blow.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Double post.

[Lucius]

But the real question is, which is better--dwarven weapons, or elven weapons?  And how? 

 

That's a personal thing. Depends on if and how the character bought this:

 

Dwarven/Elven (Pick One) Weapons Are Better!:  (Total: 20 Active Cost, 8 Real Cost) +2 Skill Levels with All Attacks (20 Active Points); Incantations (Requires Incantations throughout; appropriate battle cry; -1/2), Limited Power Only with Dwarven/Elven (Pick One) Weapons (-1/2), Side Effects (Side Effect always occurs whenever the character does some specific act; -2 OCV, -1 DCV, -1 Damage Class, if using Elven/Dwarven (Pick One) Weapons; -1/4), Cannot Be Used With [specific combat maneuver] (Disarm if Dwarven, Haymaker if Elven; -1/4) (Real Cost: 8)

 

Note that an Elf can buy the bias towards Dwarven weapons, and vice versa. In fact, it would be a lot of fun if a party included an Elf using a Dwarven pickhammer and a Dwarf using an Elven longbow...

 

Lucius Alexander

 

palindromedaries are better!

[IndianaJoe3]

You might consider using the advanced focus rules from APG2 to make a little better without making them more powerful.