How would you handle: Building your own universe?

[phoenix240]

A recent article in Pyramid (GURPS gaming magazine) featured ideas on how to construct characters that can create their own universes and dimensions building of the World Jumper Advantage (Similar to the EDM power in Hero) with the explanation that the character was creating their destination. This included how to build in different physical laws and other changes in their private universes. The Aberrant RPG also featured a power called Universe Creation (thought it was largely unavailable to PCs in most games) which allow a character to custom build a universe. How could you build this effect in Hero System? This most just curiosity to see how far the system could be stretched. I don't expect it would be an ability that's in price range for typical play.

[assault]

If everything exists somewhere, EDM with a skill roll.

 

Or a really, really big base.

 

Both of which could be depressingly cheap.

 

Of course if you want followers and so on, you would have to pay for those.

[Vondy]

EDM is probably the simplest way to do it.

[TheQuestionMan]

Greetings Programs, I would use Extra Dimensional Movement and Area Knowledge and Knowledge Skills for Alternate Universes and Extradimensional Universes.

 

Requires a Skill Roll is a good choice. I would require an amazing Background/History and Campaign Use/Character Subplots.

1. What does the Character want to do with this character? (GM needs information to create adventures.)
2. Where does he want to go? (GM Requires at least 6 alternatives)   
3. What examples of this power in use? (GM Requires to know the inspiration for the character.) 
4. How does the Character navigate the Universes? 
5. How does the Character react to Blocked Universes? 

 

Things I as a GM would need to know before allowing such a character and accepting the humongous task or great improvisational skills. 

 

 

QM

[Hyper-Man]

This reminds me a lot of how characters in the Amber Diceless RPG could build their own private 'shadow' (shadows of Amber, the one true world).  How much control the character had over the shadow/dimension was dependent on how many points were spent investing in it.  I think the HERO analogy would be something akin to the Perk rules (similar to vehicles and bases).  EDM would certainly allow a character to find the 'dimension of their desires' and even the place of power in said dimension but spending Perk points on it (like everything else in HERO) really determines how much use a character can get out of it during gameplay.

[phoenix240]

*facepalm*

 

I put this is the wrong forum.

[phoenix240]

I think I'd go the REALLY big extradimensional base route. Not entirely sure how to simulate different laws of physics since its such a broad idea with effects that could range from cosmetic to game breaking.

[megaplayboy]

XDM is a good base power for this. Just a little space to go think quietly is probably a really basic form of the power. Extradimensional Space from APG II is good for "a little space to keep all my stuff". "I have a nice little pocket universe where I am king" could be built as a base. In which case you could also have XDM UAA to simulate bringing someone into that universe. If you can create an alternate reality within an existing one, then maybe some kind of funky build, XDM, continuous, UAA, AoE (Megascale?) could represent this. As a last resort, you could have XDM to a "blank slate" universe, and have a Transform and maybe even VPP, only works in alternate universe(-1 or -2, depending) to represent the ability.

The cost can be highly variable depending on how permissive the GM is and how its built.

[Philip Nicholls]

wasn't there a character in an old Adventurers Club issue called "The Landlord" who bought a base the size of the universe with all followers fanatically loyal?

[phoenix240]

The power Universe Creation does work similarly to EDM in its basic form except you can make a roll and the better the closer your new Universe is to what you wanted. Net a high enough margin of success and its exactly what you wanted. You're not "god" in it though, not by default or omnipotent. I'm not sure how the GURPS ability(ies) work exactly.

[Scott Baker]

Sounds like something out of Lords of Creation (Avalon Hill) which specifically had characters reach a power level where they could create their own pocket universes (and thus be GMs for games as well). Which was influenced by many sources, including Zelazny's Amber and probably Farmer's World of Tiers as well.

 

As for building it...EDM, skill roll, and I'd probably throw in relevant science/knowledge skills for specific effects.

[Lord Liaden]

While I agree that the Special Effects of Extra-Dimensional Movement or the Base Perk could mostly cover what's being described... in the spirit of system exploration expressed by phoenix240 in his first post, I want to brainstorm a bit over designing an actual "Create Universe" Power based on existing HERO System precedents.

 

I think I would start with Summon as the basis for it, as in Summoning a "Base" -- a space built using the Base rules, perhaps expanded for Kingdoms as per The Ultimate Base. The cost for Summoning would be derived from the Active Points in the Base, not the cost of the Base Perk. The degrees of the Amicable Advantage for Summon might be used to reflect the extent to which the new universe is under its creator's control.

 

As for unusual conditions within the universe, while those that don't have a significant "combat" effect on characters might just be Special Effects of the environment, those that can significantly, even deliberately, affect visitors could be built using Powers and Modifiers. Change Environment would cheaply cover many potential ones.

 

I acknowledge that this is just one way to approach the issue, and that more details would need to be worked out. It's just a preliminary spitball.

[Steve]

Using APG 2's Extradimensional Space power, a bubble a little less than a light-year in volume takes 220 points. I think a Base of equivalent cost in points would be larger, but I don't have HD handy to check that.

[Christopher]

While I agree that the Special Effects of Extra-Dimensional Movement or the Base Perk could mostly cover what's being described... in the spirit of system exploration expressed by phoenix240 in his first post, I want to brainstorm a bit over designing an actual "Create Universe" Power based on existing HERO System precedents.

 

I think I would start with Summon as the basis for it, as in Summoning a "Base" -- a space built using the Base rules, perhaps expanded for Kingdoms as per The Ultimate Base. The cost for Summoning would be derived from the Active Points in the Base, not the cost of the Base Perk. The degrees of the Amicable Advantage for Summon might be used to reflect the extent to which the new universe is under its creator's control.

 

As for unusual conditions within the universe, while those that don't have a significant "combat" effect on characters might just be Special Effects of the environment, those that can significantly, even deliberately, affect visitors could be built using Powers and Modifiers. Change Environment would cheaply cover many potential ones.

 

I acknowledge that this is just one way to approach the issue, and that more details would need to be worked out. It's just a preliminary spitball.

 

Using APG 2's Extradimensional Space power, a bubble a little less than a light-year in volume takes 220 points. I think a Base of equivalent cost in points would be larger, but I don't have HD handy to check that.

The same APG also has object Creation. In a way a universe is really just a very large object you can walk inside.

 

The biggest issue is that this power is outside of Combat time/combat scale. And propably outside Adventure Scale. Hero really only cares for stuff that happens on either of those two scales - combat or adventure.

 

Base is the obvious thing if you jsut have access to a dimension/universe that you "created in advance". Afaik teh ultimate base has a price for bases "in different Dimensions" and the spacebase in Champions 6E has a build for a Teleporter build into said base (wich can be modified to use EDM isntead of Teleport).

 

If you just want to create a universe without much control over the details (laws of physics, does life exist, how "old" is the universe) Object Creation from APG II is the way to go. You need skillrolls to actually define details/make an exact copy. You would propably need a Megascaled Sense to actually sense all the details on large enough scale.

 

EDM has been used to "create" Universes, but only very limited ones. Specifically using EDM to Stop time ("Travel to a dimension where everything but the caster is frozen and inaffectible") creates a dimension (the one you travel too). And it is also an example for one with different laws of physics.

Cyberspace is also often defined in a way that it works like an alternative dimension (inlcuding EDM/Projection Desolid needed to get into it). Here the EDM does not define the universe, but the setting. Generally definitng universes/dimensions is part of the setting.

 

Summon has been used to create inanimate objects like Vehicles and Bases (inlcuding ones with Followers).

 

I do not have any more ideas right now.

[Cassandra]

EDM [Alternate Earths] only cost 20 Points.

 

Alternate Earths are not only a staple of superhero stories, but they provide a wide variety of strange places to visit, and opportunities for the characters to interact with alternate versions of themselves.

 

One classic plot is that the Hero is evil in an Alternate Earth, and they switch places because of an accident.  The other player characters have to deal with a team member who is acting strangely, while the Hero trapped in a world where he is being hunted by the law.

[megaplayboy]

One fun option for a power like this is to run a storyline inside the alternate universe created by the character, and if it's a PC, let that player be the GM! Say, for example, the hero is in a coma, their consciousness trapped inside their own world, and only their comrades can go in there and pull them out...