Looking for iconic Crusader and Starburst from BBB

[Christopher R Taylor]

Last character: Jaguar.  Its interesting because his build swaps; the more expensive form is his human form instead of jaguar form.  I used the human form as the base anyway, since he tries to spend most of his time that way anyway.  It kind of bothers me that his last name translates to roughly "housecats" though.  Sort of a tip off to his family's nature, you'd think.  The build calls him a "were-jaguar" but he isn't resistant to things and cannot pass on the lycanthropism, so he's not really were- in the classical sense.

 

Jaguar (human form)

 

Val Char Cost

 20  STR   10      Weight: 400kg; Damage 4d6

 20  DEX   20

 18  CON   8

 11  BOD   1

 18  INT     8        Perception Roll 13-

 10  EGO   0

 13  PRE   3        Presence Attack 2 1/2d6

  8   PD     6

  5   ED     3

  5   SPD  30

  8   REC   4

 36  END   4

 30  STN   5

 

OCV:    7/8

DCV:    7

OMCV: 3

DMCV: 3

 

12m RUN   0

  4m SWIM 0

  8m LEAP 2

Characteristics Cost: 134

 

Cost Power

 57    Jaguar: Multiform (282 Character Points in the most expensive form)

Powers Cost: 57

 

Cost Martial Arts Maneuver

  4    Martial Block:  1/2 Phase, +2 OCV, +2 DCV, Block, Abort

  4    Martial Disarm:  1/2 Phase, -1 OCV, +1 DCV, Disarm; 40 STR to Disarm

  4    Martial Strike:  1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +2 DCV, 8d6 Strike

  3    Sacrifice Throw:  1/2 Phase, +2 OCV, +1 DCV, 6d6 Strike; You Fall, Target Falls

  8    +2 HTH Damage Class(es)

Martial Arts Cost: 23

 

Cost Skill

  3     Bureaucratics 12-

  3     Breakfall 13-

  3     Bribery 12-

  3     Bugging 13-

  3     Charm 12-

  3     Combat Driving 13-

  8     +1 with HTH Combat

  3     +1 Martial block, martial disarm, and sacrifice throw

  3     Concealment 13-

  3     Conversation 12-

  3     Criminology 13-

  3     Deduction 13-

  4     Forgery (Documents, Money (Counterfeiting)) 13-

  6     Gambling (Card Games, Dice Games, Sports Betting) 13-

  3     Interrogation 12-

  2     CK: Hudson City 11-

  4     Language:  English (idiomatic)

  3     Lockpicking 13-

  3     Paramedics 13-

  3     Persuasion 12-

  2     PS: Private Detective 11-

  3     Security Systems 13-

  3     Shadowing 13-

  3     Stealth 13-

  3     Streetwise 12-

Skills Cost: 83

 

Cost Perk

  2     Fringe Benefit:  Private Investigator License

  7     Vehicle: Slingshot Donation

  4     Base: Homestead Donation

Perks Cost: 13

 

Total Character Cost: 310

 

Pts. Complication

 10   Accidental Change:  To were form when angered or badly hurt 11- (Uncommon)

 25   Dependent NPC:  Barrio Street Irregulars Infrequently (Incompetent; Useful Noncombat Position or Skills; Group DNPC: x8 DNPCs)

 15   Hunted:  Latino Organized Crime Infrequently (As Pow; NCI; Harshly Punish)

 25   Hunted:  Ancient family enemies Frequently (Mo Pow; NCI; Harshly Punish)

 20  Psychological Complication:  Hates to lose control and shift to were form (Very Common; Strong)

 10   Psychological Complication:  Sucker for a sob story (Uncommon; Strong)

 15   Social Complication:  Secret Identity (Frequently, Major)

Complication Points: 120

 

Jaguar (were form)

 

Val Char Cost

 30  STR   20      Weight: 1600kg; Damage 9d6

 27  DEX   34

 18  CON   8

 11  BODY 1

  8   INT     -2       Perception Roll 11-

  8   EGO  -2

 20  PRE  10       Presence Attack: 4d6

 19  PD      9

 15  ED      5

  5   SPD  30

 10  REC   6

 35  END   3

 36  STN   8

 

OCV:    9

DCV:    9

OCMV: 3

DMCV: 3

 

12m RUN   0

  4m SWIM 0

18m LEAP 7

Characteristics Cost: 197

 

Cost Power

 30    Claws: Killing Attack - Hand-To-Hand 2d6 (4d6 w/STR)

 12    Paws: Hand-To-Hand Attack +3d6 (15 Active Points); Hand-To-Hand Attack (-1/4)

 24    Tough: Resistant Protection (8 PD/8 ED)

  3     Keen Senses: +1 PER with all Sense Groups

  5     Cat's Eyes: Nightvision

  5     Keen Nose: Discriminatory with Normal Smell

Powers Cost: 79

 

Cost Skill

  3     Breakfall 14-

  3     Climbing 14-

Skills Cost: 6

 

Total Character Cost: 282

 

Pts. Complication

 15   Accidental Change:  To human when hit with sun drain/END drain, other "downers" 14- (Uncommon)

 25   Distinctive Features:  Cat Man (Not Concealable; Extreme Reaction; Detectable By Commonly-Used Senses)

 10   Hunted:  Ancient Family Enemies Frequently (Less Pow; NCI; Limited Geographical Area; Harshly Punish)

 25   Hunted:  Viper Frequently (Mo Pow; NCI; Harshly Punish)

 15   Psychological Complication:  Thrill Seeker (Common; Strong)

 15   Psychological Complication:  Tends to play with his "prey" (Common; Strong)

 10   Physical Complication:  Clumsy Paws (Infrequently; Slightly Impairing)

 10   Physical Complication:  No color vision (Infrequently; Slightly Impairing)

 20   Vulnerability:  2 x Effect Flash Attacks (Common)

Complication Points: 145

 

 

For some reason his image didn't have any spots or stripes, so I had to add those in manually.

[Christopher R Taylor]

SO that's it for the Champions.  If I were to build them not as copies but remake them, they'd look a bit different.  I never built a single 4th edition character without at least 11 Ego, those 2 points were a world of difference from mental attacks; these guys are chumps to any mentalist except for Solitaire who has a little protection.  I'd especially have given Jaguar better senses, higher defenses against non-magical/silver weapons, and bigger presence at the very least.

 

They were a pretty good team to show basic character building though: not terribly fancy (other than Solitaire's Widget), showing off some basic things you can do with the system while keeping in strong superhero archetypes.  They would function well as a team, with most bases covered both in and out of combat.  I like this incarnation the best, and better than the other "official" superhero teams such as the Guardians and the later Champions.

[Hyper-Man]

Yeah I punch in all the stuff and the resulting build is... zero points.  I follow the instructions in the help, I use it the way it makes sense to use and it just doesn't work.

 

And you are putting something into the Max Base Cost field?  (again, see the picture above)

 

edit.

You can also reference this character build for a similar example:

Rita Farr (The Original Elasti-Girl)

http://www.herocentral.net/get/files/premium/Rita+Farr+6e+400.HTML

http://www.herogames.com/forums/files/file/67-rita-farr-6e-400/

 

 

Other effects of Becoming BIG, all slots Linked (Becoming BIG; -1/2)     

2)  Resistant (Naked Advantage; +1/2) for up to 24 Active Points of PD & ED from Growth (12 Active Points)

 

[Grailknight]

Jaguar is supposed to be a black cat, hence no spots.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Apparently so, although his illustration does not indicate that.  Anyway I like him better this way

[IndianaJoe3]

Yeah I punch in all the stuff and the resulting build is... zero points.  I follow the instructions in the help, I use it the way it makes sense to use and it just doesn't work.

 

Dod you set the maximum cost of the power that it applies to?

[Christopher R Taylor]

OK here's a screenshot of what I did and how it ends up in cost.  Maybe you can tell where it went wrong.

 

This build:

 

Ends up like this: 

 

 

Zero points.

[Hyper-Man]

OK here's a screenshot of what I did and how it ends up in cost.  Maybe you can tell where it went wrong.

 

This build:

 

Ends up like this: 

 

 

Zero points.

 

You have to click the Naked Modifier Button to choose the Actual Naked Advantage which itself can have Limitations and/or Advantages applied to it via the Add Modifiers Button.

 

[Christopher R Taylor]

OK thanks that works now!  I just didn't see the button being different on the bottom, since the layout is all the same.  I knew it had to be something I was doing wrong, but I couldn't find what.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Now the question is: how to get that to work with something like Solitaire's Widget in her multipower?  The only way I can see to do it is to add a separate naked advantage with every slot (and use combined power to make them one power).  Unless there's some way to apply a limitation to an advantage in a power.

 

Because all the slots in her multipower are made 1/2 END Cost with the Widget, which is an OAF.

[Steve]

You can just create a single Naked Advantage that covers the active points in the main multipower pool, then apply OAF to it. It is not necessary to do one for each slot.

[Hyper-Man]

This is how I would do it.

 

No Focus Base Example:

62    Magical Power: Multipower, 50-point reserve, all slots Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4) (62 Active Points)
5f    1)  Blast 10d6 (50 Active Points) - END=2
5f    2)  Mental Blast 5d6 (50 Active Points) - END=2
5f    3)  Mind Control 10d6 (50 Active Points) - END=2
5f    4)  Telekinesis (32 STR), Reduced Negation (1) (50 Active Points) - END=2

 

With Widget Focus Example:
50    Magical Power: Multipower, 50-point reserve
5f    1)  Blast 10d6 (50 Active Points) - END=5
5f    2)  Mental Blast 5d6 (50 Active Points) - END=5
5f    3)  Mind Control 10d6 (50 Active Points) - END=5
5f    4)  Telekinesis (32 STR), Reduced Negation (1) (50 Active Points) - END=5
     

6    Widget: Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4) for up to 50 Active Points of Magical Power: Multipower (12 Active Points); OAF (Floating Widget; -1)

 

This is 4 points cheaper than the 4e Champions example (the Active Points of the Slots still remains 50).  Yes, applying Advantages to a Framework is legal but likely requires GM permission.

[Hyper-Man]

See this character for different example of Naked Advantages applying to aspects of a single slot in a Multipower.

 

See -Other effects of Becoming BIG, all slots Linked (Becoming BIG; -1/2)
 

[Christopher R Taylor]

Oh sure I know how to do it without Hero Designer, that's easy.  But how do you do it WITH Hero Designer?

[Hyper-Man]

Oh sure I know how to do it without Hero Designer, that's easy.  But how do you do it WITH Hero Designer?

 

 

Those examples WERE done with Hero Designer.

 

62-50=Active Cost of the Naked Advantage (Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4) for up to 50 Active Points) 

The phrase "Naked Advantage" doesn't appear in the output unless you add it in manually.

[TheQuestionMan]

Call up the character who's power you wish to emulate then Copy Paste and Edit.

 

IMOHO

 

QM

[Steve]

I'm wondering if it was more expensive in 4th because putting a Naked Advantage on a multipower also required including the points paid for the slots in calculating the basis for the Naked Advantage. I can't recall.

[Hyper-Man]

I could not find a reference to Naked Advantage in the 4e text. 

 

Going by the way the character was built in the book there might* be a way to purchase an additional slot via experience that had a different +1/4 Advantage or a non-Advantaged 60 Active Point Power that becomes 50 Active without her Widget. 

 

*This might be the first published example of a Naked Advantage before it even got that name.

 

Using the Advantage on the Multipower method as in my example means that every Slot has to be built legally to allow that Advantage to be applied (no Increased END Limitations could be taken in this example) and there is no option for a 62 Active Point non-Advantaged Slot.

[Christopher R Taylor]

I bundled up all the Champions rebuilds and illustrations here and put them in a zip file in the downloads section, if people want the Hero Designer files.

[Christopher R Taylor]

OK here's a set of paper minis for the Champions and the Aesisinos, both available in the download sections as 6th edition updates.

ChampsPaperMinis.pdf

[Vondy]

The DC rewrite of Crusader was excellent, IMO.

 

Its worth checking out (I don't have the relevant book anymore).

[Christopher R Taylor]

He really is more of a dark champions type of character background if not costume.

[wcw43921]

Well, Crusader is basically Batman without all the money and with only a few select gadgets--the shield and the glider wings.  So he can be as Four-Color or as Dark as you want to play him.  (Although giving him a junior sidekick might be a bit much for players or GM to swallow.)

[Ninja-Bear]

Earlier editions had a tendency to give characters superhuman or near-superhuman characteristics when there was no real reason for them and they didn't fit the origin or character concept.

 

Rainbow Archer, anyone?

For those not familiar with her, she was essentially a villainous Green Arrow. She was a normal human with a bow and trick arrows...and a 35 DEX.

This is probably do more to mechanical approach to represent comic/cinematic style than to represent a "realistic" approach.

 

I know that I had players have less fun by keeping certain stats "real".

 

Of course I'm not saying one way is better than another. It is more of an expectation thing.

[Ninja-Bear]

Oh and was 5th ed. when 30 value in a stat became the official cut off between super heroic and heroic?