JmOz Posted November 10, 2003 Report Share Posted November 10, 2003 Per hero is a good rule of thumb, Hero's are 350 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edsel Posted November 10, 2003 Report Share Posted November 10, 2003 If you are asking how many points they are built on... The non-superhuman agents are all built on 50 points plus disadvantages according to the VIPER: Coils of the Serpent book. They all get varying amounts of experience as well. The Air Cavalry Agents are worth a total of 267 points with 50 points of disads and 167 Experience (specified as "experience and individual disadvantages"). The General Combat Specialist (whom I'd definately call a vetran) is worth a mere 186 total points. Obviously a rookie agent should be worth 100 points with no experience. Of course since they are built for the Champions genre they are paying points for all their equipment. Basically I just build individual squads of identical agents (except specialists) figuring that the squad has worked together for a time and are therefore about equally experienced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted November 10, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2003 I have the Viper book, I am trying to figure out how many squads of agents to go after my players. I have 5, but only 3-4 will be able to show up... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edsel Posted November 10, 2003 Report Share Posted November 10, 2003 I usually run VIPER in squads of 5 agents and try to get a 3:1 or 4:1 ratio over the Heroes. Its a tricky thing to balance and depends on the make-up of the Heroes. Our group's Martial Artist is hell on agents (multiple move by, AE Hand to Hand attack, etc.) they've learned not to bunch up around him. The Brick on the other hand can generally only manage to attack one at a time and is much better off fighting single super-powered foes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monolith Posted November 10, 2003 Report Share Posted November 10, 2003 I generally consider 3-4 agents per hero about even. For 4 supers two Eight-Teams should be plenty, and should would give enough diversity and power to make the fight interesting. This is assuming your heroes are in the average power level (10d6, 5 SPD, 20 DEF range). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartman Posted November 10, 2003 Report Share Posted November 10, 2003 Originally posted by JmOz I have the Viper book, I am trying to figure out how many squads of agents to go after my players. I have 5, but only 3-4 will be able to show up... As with all things... It depends. How powerful are the supers? How easy is the scenario supposed to be? How good are you at agent tactics? Etc. Most of the time I use about two agents per hero for an easy encounter, three agents for a hard but winnable encounter and more for a no-win scenario. Replace with supers on a two or three for one basis. So for your case I would use a 5-man team plus a commander at the least. And two 5-man teams and a super at the most. Unless they aren't supposed to win in which case throw three 5-man teams and a couple of supers at them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starlord Posted November 10, 2003 Report Share Posted November 10, 2003 In my experience, your average 350pt superhero should be able to handle 3-4 VIPER Agents. However, as I'm sure you know different factors can enter into this: -Are their specialist agents? Psionic super could decimate many agents, but what if they Psi-suppression tech or such? -Do you have some supers who are more effective in noncombat areas?, ie., they're generally weaker in combat than most supers. 2-3 agents might be able to take this guy with a somewhat lucky shot. -Do your characters have a decent speedster? In my experience, high SPD characters decimate Agents because they don't have the DEF to resist the speedsters attacks like most supervillains do. -The reverse of my second suggestion. For example, Ironclad is built primarily for combat. If used properly he could take out double the usual number of agents. If you have a character like this, you'll want to increase the agents. This all breaks down somewhat as you get more agents involved. Each super may be able to handle 4 agents individually. However, 4 supers against 16 agents could get dicey. 16 agents could really team up to take out a couple supers quickly. For 4 average supers, I'd go with 10-12 agents. Play up the agents teamwork abilities and you've got a tough fight in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted November 10, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2003 Let see, I have one MA who has a very powerful attack (14d6 w/FW) One Brick STR 80, Strait out of the Champions Character Generator One Power Suiter who has a 12d6 EB, BUT by my house rules most agents will have a x2 Vulnerability to it (All normal humans do) One Electrical Hero with a large EB and an AE attack (Player might not show up, but as the story I am planning he needs to be captured) And a Mystic Strait out of the Champions Character Creator, with one power changed (Steve, Why oh why did you give mystics GROWTH? Changed it to a Shapeshift Disguise power) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phydaux Posted November 10, 2003 Report Share Posted November 10, 2003 In mu CU I have two types of "combat" Viper agents. One is a 75 point character with basic armor and weapon (Flack Vest & Laser Blaster). If that's all the PCs have to face, then I'll load up 4 agents per PC. I also have my 100 point Viper Assault Agents in Mk. IX Turtle Armor. I'll match 3 of these to one 350 point Hero. But the important thing is the tactics. Each git has the Teamwork skill at AT LEAST 12 or less. This is KEY! This will allow the team to consistantly pull off the Combined Attacks they will need to bring the heroes down. I also give each git Stealth at 12-. I like to send in my guys in fire teams of three each. Each hero has onne fire team assigned to him. The Team Leader will also usually keep himself and two more fire teams hidden and kept in reserve. Then, if the hero is a low STR hero like a martial artist or most power projectors, on the team's action they do a Combined Attack with their 4D6 Flash, AOE cone. After that, layer a few 6D6 Entangles and forget them. For Bricks, it's combined 4D6 Flash, AOE cone followed by combined 8D6 APEBs until they drop. For mentalists it can be tougher. Often they are stealth characters too, so finding them can be problemic. Once they're found, though I tend to stick with NNDs to take them down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted November 10, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2003 2 8 Man Squads right now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnOSpencer Posted November 10, 2003 Report Share Posted November 10, 2003 With the power level of your heroes I would say 3 or 4 8-man squads. Your PC's will be KOing one per shot and they only have a 5 DCV. You could get by on 2, but unless you give them some extra heavy weapons, it will be a laffer. My party of 5 got plastered by 2 8-man teams and one team of 5 all with heavy weapons. They are a little less powerful than your heroes, and mine used absolutly no teamwork. If you play the agents really smart(ie dodge when they are getting attacked, hold actions and wait for one hero to be easy to hit, then pound him) I think 2 or 3 standard 8-mans teams could do. But it is a pain for you and the PCs alike. YMMV John Spencer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinecone Posted November 10, 2003 Report Share Posted November 10, 2003 I usually assign a squad per hero...in the newest Viper I'd probibly use an 8-Team per 2 heros and throw in a commander and a vehicle or a support unit and expect the heros to be out mached but win anyway due to supperior mobility and fire power..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckB Posted November 11, 2003 Report Share Posted November 11, 2003 About 3 Vipers/hero. Usually Viper will come out strong at first , but fold pretty quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted November 11, 2003 Report Share Posted November 11, 2003 Hordes of them. Ghengis viper strikes again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobGreenwade Posted November 11, 2003 Report Share Posted November 11, 2003 I don't have the new book, but with the old one I used to go with one Five-Team per hero, plus one in reserve. (I also intentionally used not-so-great team tactics, so that may or may not be worthwhile advice.) And here I thought you were going to ask how many VIPER agents it takes to change a light bulb.... (My answer is two -- one to change the bulb, and one to take his place after the Nest Leader executes the first one for the incompetence of allowing a light bulb to burn out in the first place.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted November 11, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2003 What I am thinking right now is this for Agents in the adventure: 3 Scarlet's 9 Basic Combat Agents 6 Heavy Weapons 3 Vehicle Drivers 3 Specilists Hopefully that will eb enough to capture the hero that needs capturing while a good number will be taken out in the first fight In the second fight it will be the left overs and the nest leader (who has powers) and two Super Villaisns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monolith Posted November 11, 2003 Report Share Posted November 11, 2003 Originally posted by JmOz Hopefully that will eb enough to capture the hero that needs capturing while a good number will be taken out in the first fight If your goal is to really capture a hero then I would go with 2 Eight-Teams and then throw in a Four-Team of Superhuman Combat Specialists. A squad of them with their weapons choices would do some serious butt kicking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme Serpent Posted November 11, 2003 Report Share Posted November 11, 2003 Don't be afraid to recycle agents if needed to advance the plot. If you throw those 24 agents at the heroes, and the heroes somehow walk all over them, have "Assault Force Beta" arrive. If the plot can't advance without the hero being captured, make sure that happens. May also want to be sure some of the agents have "anti-electrical hero" weapons - NND's designed to take him down, entangles that don't take damage from electricity, etc. Makes it easier to take him down faster, so you can scoot off with him while the rest hold off the rest of the team. Also makes it kind of obvious to the team that he was the target, making them wonder what VIPER wants with him... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted November 11, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2003 I'm working on a hose the electrical hero weapon right now, thinking something that combines a contunous drain with an Entangle... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranxerox Posted November 11, 2003 Report Share Posted November 11, 2003 I've always as a rule of thumb have figured that one high point character can X low point character where X = (high point character cost/low point character cost)^2 . So one 400 point character should be a fair fight for 4 200 point characters. X = (400/200)^2 = 2^2 = 4 If you play with the math on this you can also figure out how tough of a major villian a super hero team can have a fair chance of beating. Point cost of villian = average hero point cost x square root of the number of heros So if you 3 350 pt heros you can fairly throw a 606 pt villain against them. Villian pt cost = 350 x square root of 3 = 350x1.73 = 606 Of course this is just my personal rule of thumb for these things and YMMV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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