Batman vs. Superman: Dawn of Justice

[Old Man]

If only there was an actress with Kim Kardashian's physical dimensions (but 8 inches taller) but more athletic and more muscle mass...

Serena Williams.

[Pattern Ghost]

You know what's funny? I was looking for pics of Athena, since being the Greek goddess of War (or at least personal valor in battle), she's the closest historic example to a super-powered Greek lady we have. Seems like artists couldn't agree on the bulk/no bulk issue for her, either:

 

No bulk:

 

 

Bulk:

 

 

So, I think we can safely conclude that, going back to the earliest source material on supernaturally-powered Greek warrior women, Wonder Woman should definitely have or not have some muscle mass.

[NuSoardGraphite]

And a lot more attractive.

I think Kim is quite pretty.

[NuSoardGraphite]

While seeing Wonder Woman's actress fit and toned seems appropriate and good, I don't think demanding she be as bulky as a Herculean god is needed. Even the male actors are allowed to fall short of the extremes of their comic book counterparts. We have to understand that it takes an absolute lifetime to reach those levels. And alao remember that these are fictional characters with fictional psysics.

 

As a side note, I have never seen the Fast and Furious movies so this is my first time seeing her. But that FF pic of her was quite stunning. Very beautiful woman.

 

Foreign Orchid

No one is saying that WW needs to be Chyna or Corey Everson, but just that the actress should fit the body type as portrayed in the comics. And that she should appear fit and as if she can handle physical combat (miss Gadot does appear quite fit) .

 

IMO, Linda Carter was too skinny as well, but it was the 70s and EVERYONE was too skinny in that decade. But Linda looked like WW so much that no one care and I think we were all too distracted by her other assets as well.

 

And I dont even think everyone is asking for the actress to WW to be impressive up top....which is a precedent set by Linda...just that she not be a stick figurex, but a fit and attractive person with some womanly curves. Even with the added bulk, miss Gadot is still a stick.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Jessica Biel is a great example of a woman with a fit body but still maintains her "womanly curves". There are many other examples out there

 

[薔薇語]

I think Carter looks far less fit than Godot. Indeed, Carter doesn't look anymore like the comic book WW physique than Godot. And personnaly, of the two women, I much more prefer Godot's appearance than Carter's.

 

Foreign Orchid.

[薔薇語]

So is the complaint that you want WW to have big breasts?

 

Foreign Orchid.

[NuSoardGraphite]

I think Carter looks far less fit than Godot. Indeed, Carter doesn't look anymore like the comic book WW physique than Godot. And personnaly, of the two women, I much more prefer Godot's appearance than Carter's.

 

Foreign Orchid.

Body-wise, no she doesnt look any more like WW than Gadot. Face and hair, she nailed it. Its skewed these days because many of WW artists have based their design on the Linda Carter version. But looking at Moulten's original design and looking as some angles of Linda, the resemblance is uncanny. That was a brilliant casting decision.

 

Miss Gadot is certainly gorgeous, there is no question there. Just the wrong body type. And as I mentioned earlier, Linda Carter was the wrong body type as well.

 

But of course, if Gal does a good job in the role, her versionnof WW will influence future conceptions of her in the comics, much like Linda did and then this conversation will be rendered moot...

[NuSoardGraphite]

So is the complaint that you want WW to have big breasts?

 

Foreign Orchid.

No, I already said that wasnt necessary. Just that she maintain some womanly curves. A bit of "hourglass" so to speak.

[薔薇語]

Carter lacks any defined muscles, is rounder in the midsection than Godot, has easily less defined leg muscles and is generally sporting a higher body fat index. The only aspect that Carter has over Godot is that her breast size is bigger. That, to me, is an irrelevant issue. Maybe it is because I don't have the same breast infatuation as others, but I really cant see how Carter did it better on a purely physical level.

 

Foreign Orchid.

[薔薇語]

No, I already said that wasnt necessary. Just that she maintain some womanly curves. A bit of "hourglass" so to speak.

Ie, beast size needs to be bigger. There is no need to use a euphemism in this case.

 

Foreig Orchid

[NuSoardGraphite]

Carter lacks any defined muscles, is rounder in the midsection than Godot, has easily less defined leg muscles and is generally sporting a higher body fat index. The only aspect that Carter has over Godot is that her breast size is bigger. That, to me, is an irrelevant issue. Maybe it is because I don't have the same breast infatuation as others, but I really cant see how Carter did it better on a purely physical level.

 

Foreign Orchid.

Lynda Carters face is dead on.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Ie, beast size needs to be bigger. There is no need to use a euphemism in this case.

 

Foreig Orchid

I'm more complaining about miss Gadot's lack of hips and leg bulk than the size of her breasts.

[NuSoardGraphite]

This is the most hour-glassy of a pic I could find of Gal. She is a stick figure with chicken legs. Very pretty, but just too skinny for WW. My wife, who is a huge WW fangirl, is very disappointed with the casting choice of Gal Gadot for this exact reason.

 

[薔薇語]

I really welcome you to go look back at Lynda Carter. But let me critique the two women on their physical appearance real quick:

 

 

When it comes to the legs, Gal Godot has fit and athletic legs. Please look at the workout photo posted up thread (edit, I have attached the photo below). She looks like she could actually run a five or six minute mile. Lynda Carter, while in no way fat has simply average looking legs. She has no muscle tone to them and while she could probably run at a good pace, she doesn't give off the look of a professional athlete who could do that five or six minute mile.

 

When it comes to their legs, Lynda Carter has a higher fat content (or at least a lack of toning that would indicate a higher percentage of fat). Gadot has what looks to be a very low content with decent toning. Certainly near the upper end for what I woman can reasonably do without years of training. And when I think of "Amazon Warrior", I am picturing a woman with those kinds of legs.

 

When it comes to one's waist / butt / ass, Lynda Carter seems to have a larger one than Godot. But I think this is wholly and completely unimportant. Why? Because no particular ass type would seem to go hand in hand with being an Amazonian warrior. And assuming we did want to ascribe a "type" to it, then I would say that the smaller, more fit version would be the type. I.e., the Godot type.

 

When it comes to one's waiste, Lynda is easily wider in that area than Godot. I do not see an Amazonian warrior having such a wide midsection.

 

When it comes to Breasts, this is a completely non-starter. If you want her to have larger breasts, than so be it. But I think that is a "fan-service" desire and has absolutely nothing to do with being Wonder Woman. Godot looks lovely as she is. And it isn't like she is lacking in that department, either.

 

When it comes to the arms, there is no contest. Godot has toned and muscled arms. If she were to hit me, I would most certainly feel it. Ms. Carter has "typical" female arms. If she hit me, I would probably have to feign being hurt to protect her feelings.

 

When ti comes to the face, this is purely aesthetic. It, like the breasts and Ass issue, has no bearing on what an Amazonian Warrior would look like. Personally, while Lynda is far from unattractive, I think Godot is ahead of Lynda when it comes to having an attractive face. Perhaps that is a sign of the times, or perhaps that is a sign of my own personally sexual preferences, but I do not understand the attraction to Lynda in that regard.

 

Springboarding from the issue of sexual preference, the times have change. What people think is "sexy" now is not necessarily the same as it used to be. I imagine that I am not alone in thinking that Godot is the more attractive of the two.

 

To sum up a bit, most of what I am hearing is registering as "I want Wonder Woman to have a big ass and big breasts" all cloaked in euphemisms that don't help. "hourglass" and "womanly curves" are rather strong indicators of "big ass" and "big breasts" than they are of "physically fit" / "Amazonian".

 

Foreign Orchid.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[NuSoardGraphite]

I guess you missed the part where I said Lynda carter doesnt have the right body type too.

 

I'm comparing gal to the typical comic book character design of WW. Her more iconic images.

 

Granted that there have been some artists who have drawn WW with a slimmer athelete type body. Gadot has that. But many artists draw WW with a somewhat curvier body than a typical female athelete, but also emphasizes that she has muscle mass as well.

 

[薔薇語]

But the focus of your comments were less on Godot's athleticism and more on her lacking a big ass and big breasts. Hence the thrust of my commentary.

 

Wonder Woman has toned legs. So does Godot.

Wonder Woman has bulging leg muscles (in your pic). Godot doesn't. No one who isn't pushing themselves for years will, though.

 

Wonder Woman has toned Arms. So does Godot.

Wonder Woman has slightly bulging arm muscles (in your pic). Godot doesn't. But no one who isn't pushing themselves for years will.

 

Wonder Woman has a six pack. So does Godot.

Wonder Woman has a bulging six pack (in your pic). Godot doesn't. Almost no one does, even women who really push themselves.

 

Wonder Woman has an "hourglass figure" / "womanly curves" - AKA - Wonder Woman has big breasts, a tiny waist, and a big ass. Godot doesn't. But she in no way needs those features. She is quite sexy without them. They are hardly needed to fit the "amazonian" stereotype. They are only needed to placate certain fan service ideals.

 

Foreign Orchid.

[NuSoardGraphite]

But the focus of your comments were less on Godot's athleticism and more on her lacking a big ass and big breasts. Hence the thrust of my commentary.

 

Wonder Woman has toned legs. So does Godot.

Wonder Woman has bulging leg muscles (in your pic). Godot doesn't. No one who isn't pushing themselves for years will, though.

 

Wonder Woman has toned Arms. So does Godot.

Wonder Woman has slightly bulging arm muscles (in your pic). Godot doesn't. But no one who isn't pushing themselves for years will.

 

Wonder Woman has a six pack. So does Godot.

Wonder Woman has a bulging six pack (in your pic). Godot doesn't. Almost no one does, even women who really push themselves.

 

Wonder Woman has an "hourglass figure" / "womanly curves" - AKA - Wonder Woman has big breasts, a tiny waist, and a big ass. Godot doesn't. But she in no way needs those features. She is quite sexy without them. They are hardly needed to fit the "amazonian" stereotype. They are only needed to placate certain fan service ideals.

 

Foreign Orchid.

I am a bit of a comic book nerd. Being picky about casting choices is what we do. And since Diana is my second favorite DC character, i'm sure you can understand my nerdrage.

 

(Not that I am really nerd raging. Im just being picky. My wife is nerd raging to the point she wont even discuss the lateest trailer with me because thinking about Gadot in that roll makes her angry)

[薔薇語]

I can understand finding paticular actors and actresses more attractive than others and having specific sexual ideals for certain characters. I don't begrudge you or anyone else for finding certain physical features appealing. I know that there are certain physical features I find absolutely amazing.

 

The bigger point that I think I am trying to make here is that we should feel empowered enough to be frank and honest about those preferences. We don't need to hide away our feelings by couching them in poorly veiled euphemisms. ♬ you like big butts and shouldn't hide.♬

 

Short of major surgery there is absolutely nothing Godat can do to satisfy your desires. And thus I think ever mentioning or eluding to athleticism as a critique does not serve the argument well in any way. There is likely no actress who could fulfil the three prong desire for Acting ability, Atheticism, and sexual desireablity (to the standard described). For me, I rank the sexual desireablity as the least important. So while Godot isn't in sync with my particular sexual desires, she is certainly athetic, presumably good at acting, and more than sufficiently eye pleasing. Thus why I defend the choice on whole.

 

Foreign Orchid.

[NuSoardGraphite]

I can understand finding paticular actors and actresses more attractive than others and having specific sexual ideals for certain characters. I don't begrudge you or anyone else for finding certain physical features appealing. I know that there are certain physical features I find absolutely amazing.

 

The bigger point that I think I am trying to make here is that we should feel empowered enough to be frank and honest about those preferences. We don't need to hide away our feelings by couching them in poorly veiled euphemisms. ♬ you like big butts and shouldn't hide.♬

 

Short of major surgery there is absolutely nothing Godat can do to satisfy your desires. And thus I think ever mentioning or eluding to athleticism as a critique does not serve the argument well in any way. There is likely no actress who could fulfil the three prong desire for Acting ability, Atheticism, and sexual desireablity (to the standard described). For me, I rank the sexual desireablity as the least important. So while Godot isn't in sync with my particular sexual desires, she is certainly athetic, presumably good at acting, and more than sufficiently eye pleasing. Thus why I defend the choice on whole.

 

Foreign Orchid.

Oh I have never hid my preference for curvy women with large breasts. I am not that much an ass man though. I like boobs, hips and legs.

 

However, my personal preference is not my motivation for my questioning of miss Gadot in the roll. If WW was drawn as skinny/athletic body frame, I would want the actress to be skinny.

 

I want the characters to fit their iconic images. Im the guy that complains that they turned Johnny Storm black. That Jessica Alba was all wrong as Sue Storm. That Hugh Jackman was too tall to be Wolverine. That Lex Luthor has hair. That Michael Keaton wasnt big enough to be Batman.

 

Gal Gadot being too skinny is just the latest. When we start discussing the casting of iron fist, I will probably complain that the actor isnt blonde (easily fixed though). And I will probably burst a blood vessel when they inevitably mis-cast Carol Danvers.

[Greywind]

I think Kim is quite pretty.

 

I'm not denying that she is pretty. But all things considered, I don't think she's that attractive.

[NuSoardGraphite]

For the record, I think Christopher Reeves was too skinny for Superman. The right height, but not enough muscles. Caville is PERFECT in that regard. Best Superman we've gotten for the look.

[Pattern Ghost]

For a point of reference, since I don't think it has been posted  yet, here's a pic of WW's first appearance:

 

 

She's a bit stockier than modern portrayals, and has more realistic proportions. Lynda Carter was actually a very close match. She also looks nothing like an Amazonian warrior, though of course the Amazonian and Greek mythological elements were just a veneer to start with. Modern WW has placed more emphasis on those elements.  Gadot's physique is fine in that regard. I don't think we're going to find a whole lot of actresses that match the body types found in comics for female heroes unless we start recruiting porn stars or fitness models with oversize breast implants. I'd rather have an experienced actress who can portray the character's personality than eye candy.

[NuSoardGraphite]

The area where i am pleased with Gadot is her height. She's 5'10", which is quite tall for a hollywood actress and should look proper when standing next to Cavill (6'1") and BatFleck (6'4") especially if she is wearing the 4" hooker boots.

[megaplayboy]

Christina Hendricks once expressed interest in the role. I think that was when Whedon was working on it. She could probably have toned up for the role, and she was certainly tall enough and curvy enough. Plus, based on her portrayal of Joan in Mad Men, Ms. Hendricks would certainly have the presence to pull off the role.