Stat-wise, what are street criminals like in your game

[TheDarkness]

I'm kind of curious here. Especially presence and combat stats. Thanks in advance...

[BoloOfEarth]

If you're talking about street thugs, low-level mob enforcers, and the like, I don't generally stat them out.  They may have 13 PRE on the theory that they have to be able to stand up for themselves on the mean streets.  But generally I put more thought into their personalities than their stats.  The players won't notice or care whether Joey Bag-o-Donuts had an DCV of 3 or 4 or 5.  But they'll remember that ol' Joey called the Chinese gadgeteer PC a "Jap chick" and tried to hit on her just before she beat him unconscious with a toaster.  (Actual game occurrence, BTW.)

 

Should it become important in play, I'd invent some stats on the spot based on the street criminal's personality and specialty.  For example, Joey's more of a talker than a fighter, so he only has 10 STR but 13 PRE and +1 w/ all Interaction skills.  OCV of 3 overall but 5 with his pistol.  DCV of 5 because his mouth gets him in trouble.  Running of 8m for the same reason. 

 

Meanwhile, Joey's fellow enforcer Sam is the big, strong, silent type, so 15 STR and CON.  OCV of 5 in HtH, DCV 3, with 8 PD and 28 STUN.  Brass knuckles (specially made to fit over his meaty paws) for +3d6 HtH.  He might actually have 18 PRE.

[massey]

I go with the idea that stats of 20 ("max human") are max normal human.  As in, normal person who you are likely to meet on the street.  An 18 Int means you're the smartest kid at your high school.  Dex 18 means you're the star high school athlete.  This is a little higher than most people on the boards want to put NPCs.  But this allows me some wiggle room with criminals and street thugs, and works with published book characters.

 

Most of the time, I give the guys straight 15s in Str, Dex, Con, Pre.  5 PD and ED, 3 Spd.  This lets them be big and scary to normal people, but easy prey for supers.  It also makes them prime Viper recruits.  Give the guy a 4D6 Hand Attack baseball bat/crowbar and he thinks he's a threat to a dark avenger of the night hero.  At least he can put some Stun on him before he gets knocked out.  Generally I keep them low enough that the vigilante heroes can wipe the floor with a dozen of them or so, at once, as long as they fight smart.

[Comic]

I almost never wasted my players time, back in the day, with normal people in anything like the sort of conflict that used combat tracking.

 

A street thug with flat 8-10 core stats and SPD 2 might tickle a little novice hero interest if they had a hostage or seven, a 1d6KA and five-to-one advantage in an ambush, but my campaigns generally had story arcs, and the people I played with had precious little free time to spend in addition to the regular story arc on the normal people in the criminal world.

 

Soon enough, the stars of crime, terror and mystery show up, and they tend to be above thug.

 

We concentrated on that.

 

By and large, superheroes are steel, and normal thugs are tissue paper.

[Ninja-Bear]

Do you have access to any Hero book with normal, skilled and talented written up? I usually write them up around skilled. Also I can steal stats from Gadget!, as they have agent types I-IV or modify VIPER agents. Also I have Dark Champions too for thugs and what type of skills they should have. For Martial Art types I use Genetic Thug from the appedix of Watchers of the Dragon. My only quibble with published stats is that most characters have 15 STR. Which I think is a little over-inflated but it does give you whole dice to throw.

[TheDarkness]

Do you have access to any Hero book with normal, skilled and talented written up? I usually write them up around skilled. Also I can steal stats from Gadget!, as they have agent types I-IV or modify VIPER agents. Also I have Dark Champions too for thugs and what type of skills they should have. For Martial Art types I use Genetic Thug from the appedix of Watchers of the Dragon. My only quibble with published stats is that most characters have 15 STR. Which I think is a little over-inflated but it does give you whole dice to throw.

I've got the stats for normal, skilled, and talented. I tend to try to keep normals normal, and so I'm always curious what qualifies as normal in different games. And since I'm working on a dark champions game and a supers at the same time, I figured I'd ask. Since, really, from campaign to campaign, especially if people aren't using premade stuff, what is weak and strong is entirely relative. 12d6 blast is overpowered in one game, underpowered in another, just right in many.

 

Also, I have some scenarios going on for story development that involve street criminals, and so I had crime on my mind...

[Marcus Impudite]

Since common criminals are subject to Sturgeon's Law the same as anyone and anything else, they usually get low INT and EGO unless they're supposed to be more competent, with 8 or 9 being the highest among all but the really brainy criminals. The typical stats for a street lowlife in my games (5th ED):

 

STR: 15

DEX: 15

CON: 15

BODY: 10

INT: 7

EGO: 7

PRE: 13

COM: 8

PD: 4

ED: 4

SPD: 3

REC: 6

END: 30

STUN: 30

 

Running: 6"/12"

Leaping: 3"/6"

Swimming: 2"/4"

 

Skills

CK: Campaign City 8-

KS: Criminal Underworld 11-

Streetwise 12-

WF: Small Arms, Blades

 

Disads

Hunted: law enforcement 8-

Social Limitation: Criminal Record and/or Parole Restrictions

[assault]

Most street criminals are junkies, alcoholics and losers. Some are big enough to be effective bullies. A few have military experience.

 

Pretty much baseline stats, and that's being generous with respect to Int, Ego and Mental CVs.

 

Criminals are a superstitious cowardly lot.

[Ninja-Bear]

Since common criminals are subject to Sturgeon's Law the same as anyone and anything else, they usually get low INT and EGO unless they're supposed to be more competent, with 8 or 9 being the highest among all but the really brainy criminals. The typical stats for a street lowlife in my games (5th ED):

 

STR: 15

DEX: 15

CON: 15

BODY: 10

INT: 7

EGO: 7

PRE: 13

COM: 8

PD: 4

ED: 4

SPD: 3

REC: 6

END: 30

STUN: 30

 

Running: 6"/12"

Leaping: 3"/6"

Swimming: 2"/4"

 

Skills

CK: Campaign City 8-

KS: Criminal Underworld 11-

Streetwise 12-

WF: Small Arms, Blades

 

Disads

Hunted: law enforcement 8-

Social Limitation: Criminal Record and/or Parole Restrictions

Im going to be lazy and tweak Marcus stats. For the most part they are good. STR 13 DEX 13-14 PD 5 OCV 6 with main weapon / attack.

 

EGO and INT at 8

[Tech]

For thugs that are for beating up and giving the hero an easy fight: I generally go with 10-15 Str, 10-15 Dex and Con, 2-3 Speed, 6 PD/ED, 20-25 Stun.  I go with the higher PD and ED for dramatic sense and the hero not worrying about accidentally hurting them. If street level thugs, reduce everything to normal 10s in stats and 2 Speed and never having any levels.

 

However, when I pull out a thug that is quite competent and will make a hero take notice, I might go with something like: 15-20 Str, 15-20 Dex and Con, 4 Speed, 8 PD/ED, 28+ Stun. Maybe a level. A thug with a 20 Str and Con with 40 Stun makes a hero take notice and maybe say "Woah" - the kind of thug from Batman Animated Series that Batman keeps beating on but takes awhile to defeat.

[Doc Democracy]

I dont stat out low levels - they have a title (East side pimp) but not a name, a reason the heroes might talk to them, a weapon.  I presume SPD 2 OCV 3.

 

Unless otherwise stated on the card (I use index cards for NPCs) they go down on one hit from a PC.

 

NPCs with names get stats too, though I have a few that are in between...

 

 

Doc

[BoloOfEarth]

One of my players got me a present from GenCon many years back - a random name generation booklet.  It's broken down by country of origin, each with surnames (usually 1-2 sets of a hundred numbered 01-00) and lists of male and female first names (also numbered for random selection).  So I tend to give names whether or not the character is significant at all.  Sometimes the name evokes a certain personality type and I run with it.

 

To clarify:  the toaster incident involved the PC in secret ID, so she couldn't just raise her force field or blast them.  Thus, the thugs' stats became (marginally) important, as did her use of items of opportunity.  And throwing names on the thugs helped me stat them out on the fly.

 

On a related note, I find the game world becomes more "real" to the players if the low-level thugs aren't all two-dimensional cookie-cutter types, so I encourage a little variety in your street-level thugs.  Sure, a lot of the time it's not necessary -- the hero plowing through a dozen mooks doesn't care what their names and personalities are, or whether their STR is 13 or 15.  Nor will the player remember them weeks later.  But when the hero gets to the last guy, who is a weasel with an unusually high DCV (say, 6) and dodges around while pleading with the hero to let him walk free -- that the player will remember.  Heck, if the player roleplays it right, he could get useful info from the weasel mook or might even turn him into a free Contact.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Close to normal people, with a few more points of Dex and maybe a 3 Speed, plus some stun and PD.  That's just for some random gang banger or thief; I give them skills to match their speciality.  Someone with more significant training goes up from there, but these guys aren't commandos or anything.

[Cassandra]

Most Criminals are must Normals with HA +1d6, CSL: HA +1, and a RKA 1d6 OAF Gun (-1), plus Streetwise 8-.  

[Christopher R Taylor]

One thing I really don't like is when ordinary criminals become badass super agents just to make a scene more interesting or give the heroes a challenge.  How many fights did Daredevil struggle in, every episode, even fighting just some random guy off the street?  I know it makes for good television for him to have a long fight but seriously?

[massey]

One thing I really don't like is when ordinary criminals become badass super agents just to make a scene more interesting or give the heroes a challenge.  How many fights did Daredevil struggle in, every episode, even fighting just some random guy off the street?  I know it makes for good television for him to have a long fight but seriously?

 

I guess the difference is, I don't see Viper as "badass super agents".  They're a half step above running around and shooting their guns into the dirt shouting "COOO-BRAAA!!!"  

 

Real life criminals are usually small and malnourished (that's what happens when you use lots of drugs instead of eating healthy).  But these are movie thugs, and they look all tough and scary.

[BoloOfEarth]

I guess the difference is, I don't see Viper as "badass super agents".  They're a half step above running around and shooting their guns into the dirt shouting "COOO-BRAAA!!!"  

 

Played right, VIPER agents can ruin a hero's day.  (pause)  Too bad I play them with the Cobra variant. 

 

Seriously, though, if running a Champions combat involving agents or thugs, I lump them into groups and use mass combat rules.  Makes them much more effective against the heroes.  They may still only last a few Phases, but they'll do some damage before they fall down.

[Christopher R Taylor]

I guess the difference is, I don't see Viper as "badass super agents".  They're a half step above running around and shooting their guns into the dirt shouting "COOO-BRAAA!!!"

Yeah, Viper I figure ranges from trained soldier to special forces with their top end guys (perhaps with some chemical and technological help).  Most of them are military washouts and prison guard level, like militia types.

[Marcus Impudite]

Real life criminals are usually small and malnourished (that's what happens when you use lots of drugs instead of eating healthy).  But these are movie thugs, and they look all tough and scary.

Well...

 

That's true of some, but there are also the ex-cons who spent the lion share of their time behind bars bulking up on prison food, lifting weights in the exercise room/yard, and getting into fights. The write-up I posted above represents those guys. A super criminal or crime boss looking for some hired muscle usually wants someone with some actual muscle, as opposed to the bag of bones crack addict who smells like cat urine.

[TheDarkness]

Thanks everyone, this is good stuff, with every view being taken.

 

The skinny crank addict.(I think one aspect that may get missed on these is speed and erratic responses, PRE attacks on them may not get the desired response)

 

The muscle bound guys, may have more extensive brawling or boxing experience.

 

The street corner dealer, probably a kid, but probably being watched from nearby by others to watch the territory.

[Ninja-Bear]

Forgot to add, in Dc:TAS, There are write ups for fast thugs and strong thugs. And its import in that for that genre the rule is that the hero cannot fight the big bad unless the bog bad fights first.

[Vondy]

I guess the difference is, I don't see Viper as "badass super agents".  They're a half step above running around and shooting their guns into the dirt shouting "COOO-BRAAA!!!"  

 

Real life criminals are usually small and malnourished (that's what happens when you use lots of drugs instead of eating healthy).  But these are movie thugs, and they look all tough and scary.

 

For dark champions I tend to run viper a little differently. The local commander and his cadre don't do most of the crimes themselves. They use criminal crews or gangs as proxies. Unless a major terrorist operation, or a highly sensitive operation, needs to be carried out they won't have goons in pajamas around. If the heroes aren't aware Viper is involved, or are only disrupting criminal operations that don't directly touch on Viper's bigger goals, they may try to bring in mercs / hired goons to deal with the heroes instead of asking the High Command for resources. As a result, I use the Viper agent templates from the 5e book, but unless a nest leader has crimson guards or some such around, they are mostly intelligence, technical, or plot-necessary specialists. The viper combat troops mostly belong the central command and a nest leader calling for them needs to convince the High Command its called for. Only once the High Command takes notice - and decides to act - will I bring in "the deadly viper assassination squad" or some muscle the heroes need to worry about.

[Vondy]

Forgot to add, in Dc:TAS, There are write ups for fast thugs and strong thugs. And its import in that for that genre the rule is that the hero cannot fight the big bad unless the bog bad fights first.

 

DC: TAS and Vibora Bay pretty much nail the power for my games. I love them.

[Vondy]

Yeah, Viper I figure ranges from trained soldier to special forces with their top end guys (perhaps with some chemical and technological help).  Most of them are military washouts and prison guard level, like militia types.

 

Mall Cops.

[Cassandra]

Street Criminal

 

Val Char Cost 

13 STR 3

10 DEX 0

13 CON 6

10 BODY 0

13 INT 3

10 EGO 0

13 PRE 3

10 COM

3 PD 0

3 ED 0

3 SPD 10

6 REC 0

26 END 0

24 STUN 0

Total Characteristics Cost: 25 Points

 

Cost Skills

6 Combat Luck +3 rPD +3 rED

1 Streetwise 8-

3 One of the Following Skills:  Interrogation, Lockpicking, Persuasion, Security Systems, Sleight of Hand, Trading

Total Skills Cost: 10 Points

 

Cost Powers

3 HA +1d6, HTH Attack (-1/2)

12 RKA 2d6, [8c] (-1/2), OAF: Pistol (-1)

Total Powers Cost: 15 Points

 

Total Cost: 50 Points

 

25+ Disadvantages

10 Hunted: The Police (More Powerful/NCI/Watch) 8-

15 PsyL: Greedy (Common/Strong)

Total Disadvantages Cost: 50 Points

 

 

Typical Criminal a Superhero or Crime Fighter might encounter.  They can be hired in great numbers by cheap super-villains.