Champions Begins - the GM Starter pack

[Chris Goodwin]

I'd like to offer up my "How to Play HERO System" document as part of this project.  The link to it is in my signature below.

[Christopher R Taylor]

I still want to make this happen, its just going to have to wait a bit while I finish up a project.  Be Summer, probably.

[Chris Goodwin]

I also have VIPER's Nest in text format from scanning in my 3rd edition Champions book, if that would be helpful.  It may need a bit of editing and some formatting as well.

[Chris Goodwin]

What's the current scope of the project?

[Tasha]

I also have VIPER's Nest in text format from scanning in my 3rd edition Champions book, if that would be helpful.  It may need a bit of editing and some formatting as well.

 

The problem with the 2nd edition of VIPER's nest is the Sandbox feel of it. It's less of an adventure or series of adventures, than a short supplement for assaulting VIPER's bases.

[Chris Goodwin]

The problem with the 2nd edition of VIPER's nest is the Sandbox feel of it. It's less of an adventure or series of adventures, than a short supplement for assaulting VIPER's bases.

 

True.  I think it's the closest thing we've had to a sort of "Keep on the Borderlands" for Champions, which itself was sort of sandboxy.

[rnadams2]

I'd like to offer up my "How to Play HERO System" document as part of this project.  The link to it is in my signature below.

I'll take a look and use it to try out some layout ideas.

 

Also, RE: Viper's Nest (assuming we have the proper permission to use it), maybe we can use the framework to update it to a more standard-type adventure.

[assault]

A degree of sandboxness is a good thing, in a "here is a start to your campaign, now take it from here" sense.

 

If anything, adding making it more sandboxy would be a good thing.  By that I mean, including a whole bunch of hooks and ideas for further adventures, which can be followed up or ignored as the GM and players wish.

[Christopher R Taylor]

I like the idea of it being more like the KOTB, though.  Viper's Nest as a 101 intro to Champions adventure works, but I think a city setting with various hot points for the PCs to clear ala caves of chaos and a final guy to finish the sequence off appeals to me greatly.

[Tasha]

A degree of sandboxness is a good thing, in a "here is a start to your campaign, now take it from here" sense.

 

If anything, adding making it more sandboxy would be a good thing.  By that I mean, including a whole bunch of hooks and ideas for further adventures, which can be followed up or ignored as the GM and players wish.

As an introductory Adventure Sandbox is the worst. IMHO you need an on the rails adventure that takes the Supers though stuff that shows how to do the basics with the system and then ends up with a big boss fight or a Group fight. Save the Sandbox for the future. You are trying to teach people about the system and setting them up to show how much fun the game world is. Handing them a supplement and saying "Make it up yourself" is very counterproductive.

[Christopher R Taylor]

I agree, the introductory adventure needs to be really straight forward and step by step like a tutorial in a video game.  Reveal parts of the rules and elements of the game as well as the setting and genre with that one, on rails.  Then you can have the campaign book be a different sort of adventure for the GM to use once the players know the system and have cleared the intro.

 

In fact, I can see the various stages and groups of the KOTB style champions city adventure like this

Group 1: Street gang, they have a fortress type of structure built up and cops can't get in to deal with them.  A couple low level powered types in their midst

Group 2: Rival street gang, but they use the city's old abandoned subway tunnels and sewers to move and hide in, almost a dungeon crawl with traps, and even some monsters because one of the gangsters can summon things

Group 3: The next step up, organized crime family that runs the gangs.  They have an elite squad of super types as well as lower level soldiers with bulletproof suits and specialty weapons.  Their cover is a strip club and the attached business that runs internet websites and hookers.

Group 4: The first villain group, maybe the bird-themed bad guys from steriaca's rookie enemy thread (Rook, Crow, Raven, Magpie and Jackdaw) who are low level thief types working the city.  They have a base in a ship on the docks

Group 5: One big awful bad guy living in the city's main park.  Something terrible that was woken up and must be dealt with

Group 6: VIPER's local branch, what's left after the intro adventure if Viper's Nest is used, otherwise their startup for the city including some nasty villain types.  Located beneath a nightclub, which is a hot club called... The Viper Room

Group 7: The big boss man who coordinates and runs all this stuff, controlling crime in the city.  He has lots of minions and more than one villain team.  He's in a high rise tower

 

I dunno, just something off the top of my head.  You'd want to highlight different interesting parts of the city like the museum, zoo, governmental offices, airport, etc

[assault]

As an introductory Adventure Sandbox is the worst. IMHO you need an on the rails adventure that takes the Supers though stuff that shows how to do the basics with the system and then ends up with a big boss fight or a Group fight. Save the Sandbox for the future. You are trying to teach people about the system and setting them up to show how much fun the game world is. Handing them a supplement and saying "Make it up yourself" is very counterproductive.

 

I see the sandbox (campaign hook) elements being a "what do we do next" thing, after the railroaded scenarios are complete.

 

After all, the GM isn't necessarily more skilled than their players.

[steriaca]

I'm flatered that you included "The Flock" as an idea, even if I had not writen them up yet.

[Spence]

As an introductory Adventure Sandbox is the worst. IMHO you need an on the rails adventure that takes the Supers though stuff that shows how to do the basics with the system and then ends up with a big boss fight or a Group fight. Save the Sandbox for the future. You are trying to teach people about the system and setting them up to show how much fun the game world is. Handing them a supplement and saying "Make it up yourself" is very counterproductive.

 

Finally someone else who gets it.  I remember when I was pretty much driven off this board because I blasphemed against the "everything must be left to the toolbox" mantra.   I know I haven't really been paying too much attention the last couple years, but it does me all kinds of good to see I wasn't the only crazy after all

[Tasha]

Been using a BUNCH of other companies' Beginners adventures for awhile now. The best ones are from FFG's Star Wars line. They are very on the rails and a more than a bit contrived, but they do teach the system to both the GM and Players. I highly recommend picking up one of their Beginner's boxes. They are a fun nights play, come with the silly dice and pregenned characters. Ones that have enough of a background for the Players to actually roleplay them. They are all good examples of how to do beginner's sets.

[Tasha]

I see the sandbox (campaign hook) elements being a "what do we do next" thing, after the railroaded scenarios are complete.

 

After all, the GM isn't necessarily more skilled than their players.

I would say that the followup be a slightly on the rails adventure. With SOME choices for the PCs to make, but not really open like a true sandbox.

[Nolgroth]

Been using a BUNCH of other companies' Beginners adventures for awhile now. The best ones are from FFG's Star Wars line. They are very on the rails and a more than a bit contrived, but they do teach the system to both the GM and Players. I highly recommend picking up one of their Beginner's boxes. They are a fun nights play, come with the silly dice and pregenned characters. Ones that have enough of a background for the Players to actually roleplay them. They are all good examples of how to do beginner's sets.

 

You too huh?

 

I really like the FFG Star Wars Beginner stuff. Enough so that I bought the full Force and Destiny rules. Good stuff there.

[Tasha]

Yeah, I am starting a campaign based on those characters. We have played though the Box and have moved onto the PDF adventure. I had to do some fiddling to actually recreate the Pregens in the full system (which is really a jerk move by FFG, building pregens that can't be built using the full system).

[steriaca]

I volunteered my rookies for this, if you wish.

 

Seen one should be the typical bank robery with bush leaguer supervillains. Just starting out guys. Some who believe quite wrongly that all it takes are powers and a costume (forgeting planning and training). Blackball is perfect for this.

[rnadams2]

"Sandbox" is more of a campaign style than an adventure style, although an adventure can be created with more or fewer opportunities to deviate from the plot and "ad lib." I find that sandbox-style campaigns are pretty easy in Champions, as superheroes are a reactionary lot anyway. And there are lots of hooks built into each character through their "role-playing" Complications (DNPC, Secret or Public IDs, Hunteds, etc). For a beginner's book, however, it's maybe not the best way to go about it... but more on this below.

 

The actual game mechanic for Hero is pretty simple, at least to someone with tabletop RPG experience. So the first question should be: is the book for beginners to RPGs in general? It won't make teaching the mechanic a whole lot more difficult, but you then might want to add the standard "what is a role-playing game" section, along with definitions of dice notations and the like.

 

Character building is, by far, the most difficult topic to grasp. And once grasped, it takes a few to really get the hang of making effective and elegant characters. So some walk-throughs (maybe three characters: one with a Multipower, one with mental abilities, and a more basic example; I'd leave Variable Power Pools out).Show not only the mechanics of building them, but also the reasoning behind the choices made.

 

Building adventures are also a bit difficult, but mainly because it involves building NPCs to an extent. Highlight some of the environmental considerations (falling, breaking things, etc.). Show how the PC's Complications can help inspire adventures, and how they can be used as hooks for a campaign as well. Highlight the importance of Complications complicating things for the PCs (and maybe make that clear in the Character Creation section as well).

 

Combat: list and briefly explain the options, then walk through a danger-room battle or similar scenario using the three characters created earlier. Make sure there are examples of a few non-typical attacks or situations, movement types, etc. Go over damage and recovery.

 

Then, the sample adventure. A hook ("The city museum's being robbed"; no self-respecting superhero is going to turn that down) with an initial, simple encounter, followed by clue-gathering (or some other opportunity to use non-combat skills and abilities), followed by a more dangerous battle, another interlude (perhaps involving some Complications), and a boss fight to wrap up. The adventure can be set up with the parts between the hook and the boss fight being non-linear, but it shouldn't get too complicated. Make sure lots of combat situations are explored, with references to the rules that can be looked up before running the encounter. Of course, PCs will often surprise a GM, but that's RPGing.

 

Last, provide some hooks to make creating follow-up adventures easier to create.

 

This was going to be my 2 cents' worth, but it blossomed to about $1.95. Sorry about that...

[Spence]

Been using a BUNCH of other companies' Beginners adventures for awhile now. The best ones are from FFG's Star Wars line. They are very on the rails and a more than a bit contrived, but they do teach the system to both the GM and Players. I highly recommend picking up one of their Beginner's boxes. They are a fun nights play, come with the silly dice and pregenned characters. Ones that have enough of a background for the Players to actually roleplay them. They are all good examples of how to do beginner's sets.

 

 

You too huh?

 

I really like the FFG Star Wars Beginner stuff. Enough so that I bought the full Force and Destiny rules. Good stuff there.

 

They are great to teach.  The D&D 5th Beginners box (and the Pathfinder one) were the same.  While the FFG boxes were set in a defined world and actually hooked into follow on adventures, the D&D/Pathfinder ones were very vague as to actual local.  We actually restated the Pathfinder one and dropped it into D&D with no difficulty.

 

A supers intro box should, in my opinion, be just a s vague to setting as the D&D/Pathfinder ones.  Able to be easily dropped into the the CU or any homebrew.   Or allowed to fade away into obscurity if needed. 

 

Like the FFG boxes I would not include anything on Character generation.  Instead prepackage some "advancements" and concentrate on actual play.  In my general experience, Hero character creation becomes simple after the player has actually played a while.  But trying to build a character without any experience of how things work in play is a major stumbling block. 

[rnadams2]

...Like the FFG boxes I would not include anything on Character generation.  Instead prepackage some "advancements" and concentrate on actual play.  In my general experience, Hero character creation becomes simple after the player has actually played a while.  But trying to build a character without any experience of how things work in play is a major stumbling block. 

 

That's actually pretty good advice, except that for some, the character creation is such a large part of why Hero is so enjoyable. I've played since first edition Chamions, and the appeal from the beginning has been the ability to build pretty much anything you wanted. But, yeah, it's complex.

 

So, maybe add Character Creation as an appendix, offering pregens for the adventure? Examples of character-building could involve those pregens, so players could see how the final characters were thought through during construction.

[Spence]

That's actually pretty good advice, except that for some, the character creation is such a large part of why Hero is so enjoyable.

Absolutely. But we are speaking about teaching Hero to people that have never played. Creation (character, NPC or device) is a favorite of mine too. But I have seen more people give up and actively decry Hero because their first cold build was bad and didn't come close to their intent due to incorrect assumptions because of never actually playing a game than grokked it and became Hero gamers.

 

The main point of of an intro is to allow new players to roll the bones and roleplay in game to see how things actually work so that they can use that understanding to in turn understand what is happening in creation.

[assault]

Like the FFG boxes I would not include anything on Character generation.  Instead prepackage some "advancements" and concentrate on actual play.  In my general experience, Hero character creation becomes simple after the player has actually played a while.  But trying to build a character without any experience of how things work in play is a major stumbling block. 

 

Interesting. A lot of games have "quick start" versions, often free, with a scenario and just enough rules to play it.

 

Yet another step beyond what we have been discussing here, of course.

[Chris Goodwin]

Barring me winning the lottery, a starter set with rules included is probably not going to happen.  That's been made clear over and over again.  This thing we're talking about in this thread is a starter adventure with pregen characters and lots of help but no actual rules.