Champions Begins - the GM Starter pack

[JmOz]

I was looking more at simplicity of character when I said Titans

 

I feel most avengers are more complicated builds,  but going to "archtypes" I feel you should have 6 characters

 

A Flying Blaster (Starfire, firestar, lightning lad, wasp,etc...)

A Leaping or flying Brick (Striped down super man, the hulk, thor, captain Marvel/Shazam)

A skilled norm (Captain America, Batman, robin)

A mentalist

a speedster

Misc

[steriaca]

I was looking more at simplicity of character when I said Titans

 

I feel most avengers are more complicated builds, but going to "archtypes" I feel you should have 6 characters

 

And there's the rub. On one hand, we want something recognizable so the players can identify them even if we have to scrap the details off of them. On the other hand, we need to make the write ups simple, and that might just make who the characters they are based upon unrecognizable.

[Ninja-Bear]

And there's the rub. On one hand, we want something recognizable so the players can identify them even if we have to scrap the details off of them. On the other hand, we need to make the write ups simple, and that might just make who the characters they are based upon unrecognizable.

I disagree with your last statement. If you at kids cartoons of the characters they don't have all the weight of their comic characters but are still very recognizable as who they and what their iconic power sets are.

[Spence]

And there's the rub. On one hand, we want something recognizable so the players can identify them even if we have to scrap the details off of them. On the other hand, we need to make the write ups simple, and that might just make who the characters they are based upon unrecognizable.

 

I agree and want to add that the quickest way to alienate a new Supers player is to field one of their favorite Heroes and they discover that they can't actually do the "cool" stuff.  And no amount of explaining that they are built that way because of point values will change it.

 

If you build Thor or Ironman they better be as versatile or powerful as the movies.    With the Teen Titans you can build them simple and inside of standard points and if the question comes up, "oh we based them off the animation" serves well.   I actually did this at a Con a few years back with the Teen Titans. 

 

Using recognized Heroes is good.  But using versions that fall far short of the common expectation will crush the objective and in some cases succeed in the opposite.   

[Ninja-Bear]

Spence that is why you don't use Iron Man you use Defender. And of course you have a disclaimer that this is a game not the movies and some consessions are made.

[JmOz]

If that is the view, then wouldn't going to the archtypes and just making one of each be the way to go, like Shadowrun does? (BUT BETTER BUILT).  Maybe with multiple builds...personaly thinking a drop and play method might be better, you know similar to the templates we have in Champs 6th but more generic?  3-4 Characteristics, 6-8 Primary power sets, 10 minor power sets, 15-20 skill sets with each being built on a certain number of points so all characteristics are at 150 or something?

[Christopher R Taylor]

If that is the view, then wouldn't going to the archtypes and just making one of each be the way to go, like Shadowrun does?

 

 

That's fine for a later product, but for a super intro tutorial, teaching both GM and players the system and genre, too much.

[rnadams2]

Some quick comments about the recent rash of posts. These are just opinions:

 

1) I don't find Multipowers, in and of themselves, to be too complicated. They can be, but so can a simple power outside of a MP. If you're teaching the game, you don't want to strip it down too much. And analogues of characters like Batman, Iron Man, or Green Arrow are just going to be easier to build with them, and come off as underpowered without. Now, I would definitely keep Variable Power Pools out simply because they require a good working knowledge of character building mechanics to use to their fullest. But one or two characters with simple MPs? I don't really see a problem. As an extension, I actually don't find turn modes or acceleration to be too complex, either. Simplify, but don't dumb it down.

 

2) I don't particularly like the idea of trying too hard to make the game appealing to video-gamers. I think that was one big issue with 4e D&D, although for different reasons than suggested here. That said, there's really nothing wrong with achievements; some games have tokens that can be passed out for exceptional play that can be "spent" to achieve a small meta bonus on the fly, so maybe that would work. And with the Hero System, experience points are character points, so they really will be hard to show as valuable unless the players have some grasp of character building rules.

 

3) Make fresh characters. I know that even the Enemies books are filled with analogues of existing Marvel & DC characters (Mechanon/Ultron, Dr. Destroyer/Dr. Doom, et. al.), but I think a lot of care needs to be taken to avoid "just Black Widow in a different costume" type situations. More importantly, I believe, is to make sure the group of pre-gens a) provide examples of each character type (brick, energy projector, martial artist, etc.), and b ) provides examples of different character build mechanics (martial arts, movement powers, ego-based powers, and, yes, even a multipower or two). You don't need to explain how to build them at this point; just how to use them.

 

4) I know character creation isn't looked on as a good idea for this project, I'm going to disagree to an extent, especially since "experience points" are character points, and are useless without some knowledge in that area. I would suggest leaving a tutorial on character creation after the main rules and tutorial scenario(s). If players want to keep the characters they played, they then will be taught how to advance the character. If players are intrigued enough to want to build their own characters, then it will give them something to work with, with the assumption that they've already played with a pregen and have some ideas. And if they want to keep a pregen, but tweak it a bit to make it their own, it gives them the tools to do that as well. The alternative to this, of course, is to simply say, "Did you like it? Time to go to the full rules, then," which is also acceptable.

[IndianaJoe3]

That's fine for a later product, but for a super intro tutorial, teaching both GM and players the system and genre, too much.

 

I disagree. Using some of the archetypes from the superhero gallery (possibly modified, to simplify them) would be a great help in character creation. It also helps avoid the problem of two players wanting the same character. ("So, Tony and Jim both want to have suits of powered armor. How should we handle this?")

[Christopher R Taylor]

Using some of the archetypes from the superhero gallery (possibly modified, to simplify them) would be a great help in character creation. It also helps avoid the problem of two players wanting the same character. ("So, Tony and Jim both want to have suits of powered armor. How should we handle this?")

 

 

That's fine, once you know what the system is and how it plays.  This product is assumed to be targeted at people who know nothing about the Hero system, and is to get them up to speed on how it works.  Then they can look at building a character from scratch.

[IndianaJoe3]

That's fine, once you know what the system is and how it plays.  This product is assumed to be targeted at people who know nothing about the Hero system, and is to get them up to speed on how it works.  Then they can look at building a character from scratch.

 

I don't think that the archetypes are, "from scratch." They're picking from a list of pre-designed options. Yes, some of the existing archetypes do have more choices than a beginner might be comfortable with, but simpler archetypes can be created. I also think that the archetypes would be a good way to demonstrate the flexibility of Champions without overwhelming the player with options.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Going to necro this, I want to start work on this soon.  Here's what I have in mind:

 

1) a simple scenario that the GM can get into very easily and run without much preparation

2) stage it in several parts, each one introducing different parts of rules like a tutorial

3) start out characters weak with few abilities, giving them new abilities as the tutorial advances

4) pre-made, simple, easy to recognize archetype characters 

5) Stand alone adventure which can be used to lead into a campaign (in this case, a prequel to Viper's Nest)

6) Teach the rules to both GM and players in a fun, simple manner

7) Free, available as download, and cheap to buy (at cost)

[Spence]

Going to necro this, I want to start work on this soon. 

 

 

I'm thinking the same thing.  But every time I get involved in a collective thread it seems to diverge from "building an intro to Playing Champions (or other setting with Hero) to a stretched out exercise of character generation.   And since Character Generation in any RPG is not actually Playing an RPG the project dies of a thousand cuts.

 

I plan to just building my idea, and after it is built tossing it out there for ego crushing critique 

[Nothere]

Wait I thought it was Vipers nest. I still don't have that so I can't do anything specifically related to that. But making sample charecters I can do.

[Christopher R Taylor]

I decided that Viper's Nest was too advanced for a simple tutorial, but I think its great as a campaign intro scenario, for a campaign book

[TheQuestionMan]

Locations:  

 

Robbery and Hostage Scenarios:  

1. Bank  
2. Jewelry Store 
3. Docks Yards 
4. Research Lab 
5. City Hall 
6. Diplomatic Embassy/Mission 

[Ninja-Bear]

I say research lab. And maybe a lab accident? Or rather a giant mutant animal is on the loose. Gets Heros involved. That leads to research laboratory. Perhaps this is the accident which gives Dragonfly his powers?

[Ninja-Bear]

Ok coffee is kicking in.

How about this:

Explosion at research lab-Heroes save innocents.

Investigation reveals Viper tried to steal a mutagen. A scientist flew off! (Dragonfly)

 

Weeks later there are several robberies of scientific stuff. Word on street there is a giant bug man on the loose.

 

Then there is an attack of giant bugs in the city!

 

Investigation again reveals the source of them.

 

Heroes confront a deranged Dragonfly.

[Ninja-Bear]

CT I too should be able to help. What guidelines are you using to build characters?

[Ninja-Bear]

Incindentally, Hero Basic does have guidelines for heroic and super heroic level play. I can post them later if you want.

[Christopher R Taylor]

I like working Dragonfly into the story, my basic sketch right now is someone setting fires all over the city in an apparently random pattern.  The heroes investigate, save lives at fires, fight looters, eventually find out its Viper agents looking for... something, and using the fire to get the building demolished so they can look into it with a front demolition company.  But one of the buildings could be a lab, that would be a good way to introduce a villain for them to fight in one of the chapters.  The idea is to have each adventure step by step intro more and more info on the game and each stage more challenging.  Several fires, each one different (fight the fire, save the civilians, dangerous lab with villain....) makes the adventures have a theme but be interesting.

[JmOz]

It's still a work in progress, but this thread inspired my generic heroes and you ar ewelcome to use them if you change their names  

 

http://jawedel01.wixsite.com/kountry-gaming/copy-of-hero-games

[rnadams2]

Still available for layout. I'll post a mock-up soon for input.

[Chris Goodwin]

As I said on another thread, I can type like nobody's business.  If you need bullet points turned into text I can do that.  I can also spell and punctuate correctly at first pass.

[Nothere]

So you say your starting on this, and no longer using Viper's nest. Does that mean you don't have the senario worked out? If not, may I make a suggestion? Split it into aspects of the game. Like a investigation section where the charecters use their science, and streetwise rolls to examine and get info to practice skill and contact use. Some sort of chase segment to look at the various movement and timing rules. And only having a fight scene at the end.