HERO "front ends"

[Sam On Maui]

I was just going through a HERO thread on RPG.net and an idea popped in my head: if you compare HERO to Unix being run with a CLI, its very powerful but takes some learning. Hard to dive in. This is part of why there's GUIs, right? Do you know of any "front ends" for HERO to make it a little easier to teach folks? Or at least get them through character creation faster?

I'm planning on making one, but at the same time? Why reinvent the wheel, you know? Certainly, as often as folks go for break-points in their characters once they know about them, removing the unnecessary granularity might not be a bad idea in terms of presenting character creation.

Just a set of training wheels, that's all. I've got one HERO group, and another group I play with that is somewhat intimidated by the system.

Thoughts?

[Anaximander]

I more likely to think Linux, but I think the particular genre books would simulate different front ends in your analogy.

[Scott Baker]

http://www.herogames.com/forums/topic/92795-champions-begins-the-gm-starter-pack/

http://www.herogames.com/forums/topic/92773-does-champions-need-an-intro-campaign-book/

[Lord Liaden]

I would suggest perusing the free file downloads in the "Downloads" section of this website. Many fans have contributed documents to simplify organization or presentation of various elements of the game, both for players and Game Masters. I particularly recommend the categories, Hero System 6th Edition Documents and Miscellaneous.

[IndianaJoe3]

I've thought of the archetypes in the superhero gallery (from Champions) as the GUI to Hero's command line. It's a pity that they haven't been extended to other genres.

[Sam On Maui]

Not a front-end in terms of setting... I was thinking of a simplified front-end. Training wheels, if you will. At least for character creation. So, instead of trying to decide between X for Stat Y with no obvious reference? Use the in-book descriptions: Weak, Challenged, Average, Skilled, Competent, Legendary. Buy up or get points refunded depending on whether you go up or down, with each increment being 5 points of stat (thus costing 5*stat multiplier).

Honestly, I think a less-granular game would suit a good variety of campaigns or at least players.

That or maybe archtypes with stat increases presented sort of like perks? I think Chill does this (been a while since I looked at my book)...

[Beast]

you want faster character gen
get Hero Designer


 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/store/product/1-hero-designer/

[Sam On Maui]

you want faster character gen

get Hero Designer

 

 

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/store/product/1-hero-designer/

I've got that, but this idea is not for me. Its for my friends who I'm trying to get into HERO. Moreover, the HERO Designer doesn't necessarily make things much easier if you're new to things - its still very much a tool for folks familiar with the system, IMO.

[assault]

Hero Designer doesn't help if you don't know what you are doing.

 

In the past, I've used templates - partly designed characters that indicate the relevant power level of the campaign, and can be completed quickly and in a plug in fashion.

 

I'm currently revising my templates for 6th edition. I might be able to show you something in a few days.

[Surrealone]

Sam and assault are correct: Hero Designer, while useful, is a tool ideally-suited to those who already know Hero System.  Aside from doing the (relatively easy) math, it doesn't really simplify things for newcomers...

[Christopher R Taylor]

We're actually working on that with an introductory book for Champions with an adventure characters, etc.  One to act as a tutorial.  If you want to lend a hand or see what we're doing check out the thread.

[Sean Waters]

Hero is very adaptable. I have used the mechanics for a zombie type board game*. You'd never recognise it as Hero, but it is.

 

The easiest way to accomplish this is:

 

1. Hide the character creation book. Too scary.

2. Fix most of it in character creation...set a single Speed value for all characters, build characters to a plan, don't show the players the build character sheet, just a play character sheet which uses power descriptions and only has the numbers you need to play.

 

The actual mechanics of Hero are pretty simple, but they could be simpler, for example you could amalgamate the combat and skill systems so they both worked the same way, which would be easy enough.

 

 

 

 

 

*an unfinished one, alas.

[Ninja-Bear]

I have this random Champions character builder for fourth edition. I believe I picked it up off a Hero ezine. In it, it has 5 major archetpyes written such as Brick and mentalist. They start with x amount of characterisitics and a few core abilities then (if you want) you can roll to see what other abilities or skills you get.

[Ninja-Bear]

I looked at the web address, and its hard to read because the top of it is clipped off. I figured out geocoties area 51 cavern

[Markdoc]

With all due respect, I think you guys are missing the point. If I understand correctly, what the OP is asking for is not "Can you make existing mechanisms a bit easier to deal with on the fly?" but "Do players need to interact with the actual mechanisms at all?"

 

And the answer is no, they don't. You can run a fully hero-compatible game without making compromises like dropping SPD, without making any changes at all to the game mechanics, and still get through character generation and play a scenario in one evening, easy-peasy. I know whereof I speak, having done it myself. And others have done it too.

 

The software analogy is pretty apt: users of (say) MS word, don't need to know anything at all about the code running the actual program, or indeed, 99% of the functions available through the GUI. They just need to know how to open the program and start typing. As they grow more experienced, they can learn where the various functions are to be found in the GUI, but a lot of people learn only a little of that ... and that's all they need.

 

I am planning my next fantasy game at the moment (in a fairly desultory fashion, it must be admitted, due to an overdose of computer gaming) and the plan is to use some of the readily available pathfinder material, to reduce my own workload. The goal is NOT to use Hero to simulate pathfinder, but to draft a "pathfinder -like" front end, so that I can pick up a pathfinder module, if I want, and use it with very minimal modification. So I am not interested in simulating mechanistic stuff like saving throws, but instead simply drafting a series of "sliders" if you like, that I can use to translate material on the fly. The front end that the PCs will see will look enough like Pathfinder that they can easily jump right in, based on their prior experience with that system, even if mechanistically they will play somewhat differently. But the major difference - which is where the GUI aspect comes in - will be that I am neither requesting nor expecting players to provide me with full builds. There will be no "Longsword; 1+1d6 HKA, 0 END (+1/2), Focus OAF, (-1) real weapon (-1/4), active points 30, real points 13" stuff. It'll just say "Longsword +4d6K" on the character sheet. The players can tell me what they want in terms of character archetypes, they can pick from a (wide) variety of packages and if they want a custom "feat" or ability, I'll put it together for them.

 

cheers, Mark

[bluesguy]

My wife has only played Hero off and on for decades.  In all that time she has never built her own character.  She understands the basics of combat and her character sheet.  That is all she needs to know.  Our daughter is about in the same situation.

 

On the other hand our son has learned everything in the rule books and runs his own campaign.

 

The heavy lifting is really on the GM..

[Sam On Maui]

We're actually working on that with an introductory book for Champions with an adventure characters, etc.  One to act as a tutorial.  If you want to lend a hand or see what we're doing check out the thread.

I'll check in on that, thanks

 

With all due respect, I think you guys are missing the point. If I understand correctly, what the OP is asking for is not "Can you make existing mechanisms a bit easier to deal with on the fly?" but "Do players need to interact with the actual mechanisms at all?"

 

And the answer is no, they don't. You can run a fully hero-compatible game without making compromises like dropping SPD, without making any changes at all to the game mechanics, and still get through character generation and play a scenario in one evening, easy-peasy. I know whereof I speak, having done it myself. And others have done it too.

 

The software analogy is pretty apt: users of (say) MS word, don't need to know anything at all about the code running the actual program, or indeed, 99% of the functions available through the GUI. They just need to know how to open the program and start typing. As they grow more experienced, they can learn where the various functions are to be found in the GUI, but a lot of people learn only a little of that ... and that's all they need.

 

I am planning my next fantasy game at the moment (in a fairly desultory fashion, it must be admitted, due to an overdose of computer gaming) and the plan is to use some of the readily available pathfinder material, to reduce my own workload. The goal is NOT to use Hero to simulate pathfinder, but to draft a "pathfinder -like" front end, so that I can pick up a pathfinder module, if I want, and use it with very minimal modification. So I am not interested in simulating mechanistic stuff like saving throws, but instead simply drafting a series of "sliders" if you like, that I can use to translate material on the fly. The front end that the PCs will see will look enough like Pathfinder that they can easily jump right in, based on their prior experience with that system, even if mechanistically they will play somewhat differently. But the major difference - which is where the GUI aspect comes in - will be that I am neither requesting nor expecting players to provide me with full builds. There will be no "Longsword; 1+1d6 HKA, 0 END (+1/2), Focus OAF, (-1) real weapon (-1/4), active points 30, real points 13" stuff. It'll just say "Longsword +4d6K" on the character sheet. The players can tell me what they want in terms of character archetypes, they can pick from a (wide) variety of packages and if they want a custom "feat" or ability, I'll put it together for them.

 

cheers, Mark

 

More or less. If I understand the state of things, some of the Linux distros out there don't even require you to look at the command line anymore if you don't want to. OSX has a terminal hiding inside if you want. Windows has Powershell.

 

Will read up later on - thanks

[Wardsman]

I was just going through a HERO thread on RPG.net and an idea popped in my head: if you compare HERO to Unix being run with a CLI, its very powerful but takes some learning. Hard to dive in. This is part of why there's GUIs, right? Do you know of any "front ends" for HERO to make it a little easier to teach folks? Or at least get them through character creation faster?

 

I'm planning on making one, but at the same time? Why reinvent the wheel, you know? Certainly, as often as folks go for break-points in their characters once they know about them, removing the unnecessary granularity might not be a bad idea in terms of presenting character creation.

 

Just a set of training wheels, that's all. I've got one HERO group, and another group I play with that is somewhat intimidated by the system.

 

Thoughts?

 

Not up on 6th edition but 5th had sidekick which was a nice beginners book for champions.

[Tholomyes]

Unfortunately, in pretty much any point buy system, it's hard to have that "Front End" while still managing the level of customization that is one of the main reasons to choose HERO over other systems. For teaching HERO, using pregens or the superhero gallery found in the Champions sourcebook (if you don't own the book, it's basically a set of 20 archetypes. each with a choice of characteristic sets, attack power sets, movement power sets, defensive power sets, skill sets [either unique to the archetype, or from a generic pool], and complication sets [again, either unique to the archetype or from a generic set]) can work fairly well, but IMO it does lose something that I feel is vital to HERO, namely the customization I mentioned. An alternative approach (albeit a very GM intensive one) is to have them describe their characters, and work through building it with them, either actually building it with them, with the book in front of you both, or a rules-removed approach, that might be something to the tune of:

Player: I want to create a weather controller.

GM: Alright, what specifically do you want your character to be able to do with their weather controlling powers?

Player: Well, I'd like them to be able to fly, shoot lightning bolts, and use gusts of wind against enemies.

*GM writes down Flight, Blast and Change Environment/Telekinesis (?) on a piece of paper)

GM: Ok, first of all, how do you want your lightning to work? Do you want to be able to call it down from the sky or shoot it from your hands?

Player: Well, I like the flavor of calling it from the sky, but I can think of plenty of times where we might be indoors, so could I have them either call it down from the sky or shoot it from their hands?

*GM writes down MP slots: Blast, Blast (Indirect)*

(and so on for other powers, skills, characteristics, complications, ect, then, the GM would put together the character based on that).

 

This is very GM intensive, especially if every player (or most, even) are new to the game, and I probably wouldn't even consider it if you aren't comfortable enough with the system to be able to put together a character in under an hour, but it's probably my preferred way of balancing the complexity of HERO and the flexibility of creating a character in HERO. It also has the benefit of giving the GM the power to keep the character within reasonable power limits for the campaign. I find this also works well if you can conduct this over Email or some instant messenger, both because it allows you to multitask more easily on GM prep stuff, as well as giving the player room to go into more thought about their character than they otherwise might, if they're not used to HERO. It's a common theme in character building advice (most famous, probably, as step 1 in Tasha's guide to building characters in HERO) but I've noticed people with not much experience beyond class/level based systems tend to not enter character creation with a full idea of their character (typically because D&D et al only require a class, race and maybe a subclass/archetype choice, and also often I've noticed those games can penalize thinking beyond that because often times you just don't have the resources to create a level 1 character to fit your vision). By doing it over Email, it's easier to ask for a few paragraphs covering what the character is like, as a person, as a superhero/adventurer (and not just what their powers are like), and then, only after those parts are squared away, do you begin to focus on stuff like powers.

 

For a system-learning session, you could probably get away with a one-shot, with pregens, but as far as a "Front End" I don't think there's a way to do it, while doing HERO justice, without taking up the role of GUI-interpreter (can you tell, I don't code much?) on yourself.

[assault]

I think a front end necessarily involves making some of the choices for the GM and players, and thus reduces the level of customization possible.

 

A good front end makes the right choices for a particular campaign, and leaves the right things up for player/GM choice.

 

That means it wouldn't be universal, and "which front end is appropriate" would be an important question.

 

The trick would be to identify what are the important decision points. The input fields, to use the computer system analogy. What you type in on the screen, that allows the system can crunch out a desirable result.

[Wardsman]

Heroic level you have packaged deals. Have handouts that give range of skill level, stat level, and power level and how that compares to your setting. What is a noob? What is competent? Seasoned? Master level?

 

What is low level, Mid  and High in each powerset?

Do you have required limitations and disadvantages?

Suggested advantages? What powers or frameworks are off limits?

Example:I don't like veeps unless severely limited due how past players abused them and slowed the game down.

What concepts do you allow or disallow?

 

Example : all superpowers were spurred on by the Carrington Event or Haley's Comet. That suggest mutations.

Example : all super powers were based on mystical effects. No power suits or gadgets.

Example: All super powers are based on ESP. No Bricks but you could have powerful Telekinetics.

 

Hero is tough on a GM because to do it right you have to more world building and do in an easy to digest way for new players.

[assault]

For superheroes (Champions), at least, a lot of "plug and play" work has already been done. Pulling some of it together into a single source would go a long way towards creating a Champions front end. Shame about the other genres.