phydaux Posted March 2, 2016 Report Share Posted March 2, 2016 So I'm fleshing out the background for one of my new PCs, and part of that background is that she was personally trained in acrobatic martial arts by Crusader, and in tactics, ranged weapons & demolitions by Marksman. Now I don't still have any of my old books from 3rd ed and before, so I'm going to need some help on some details. What were these character's secret IDs? What is the "in game" story about what happened to them? I seem to recall that Crusader moved to Hudson City and became Dark Crusader. I have no idea what is suppose to have happened to Marksman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted March 2, 2016 Report Share Posted March 2, 2016 Marksman is James Hudson, depending on where you go - Heroic Publishing owns the rights but he was apparently an age retardant normal (his family just aged very well) and served in the military before becoming a hero. In Champions New Millennium he was from a line of mutants who had enhanced physiologies but most bits were the same. He was injured but survived the battle against the Proprietor and went into retirement. Hudson Industries was a big deal I think Crusader was Sam...Sterns? He was a guy who was brainwashed by VIPER broke it became a hero. When Dark Champions came out he took an apprentice but the guy proved mentally unstable and killed him to save him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Bear Posted March 2, 2016 Report Share Posted March 2, 2016 Crusader is Sam Saunders. In 4th he was trained bty the FBI to infiltrate VIPER and caught and brainwashed to be an assasin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steriaca Posted March 2, 2016 Report Share Posted March 2, 2016 Marksman is Donald Henderson. Beyond that, what Enforcer84 said about him is accurate. Marksman's weapon of choice is the pair of sonic pistols he carries. He also likes to carry various other equipment/weapons (a small VVP). Crusader is Sam Saunders. He carries a shield (ahla Captain America), and can basically do what Cap does with it (physical Blast, Deflection, Reflection, Hand-To-Hand Attack, Killing Attack Hand-To-Hand Reduced Penatration). He is also a skilled acrobat, and I think carries a swing line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phydaux Posted March 2, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2016 "the guy proved mentally unstable and killed him to save him." Ah, the pronoun game. I used to specifically instruct my employees to NEVER use pronouns in the reports they wrote. One guy never could wrap his brain around that request. His reports made perfect sense, in HIS brain. If you would, please, who killed who to save whom? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csyphrett Posted March 2, 2016 Report Share Posted March 2, 2016 "the guy proved mentally unstable and killed him to save him." Ah, the pronoun game. I used to specifically instruct my employees to NEVER use pronouns in the reports they wrote. One guy never could wrap his brain around that request. His reports made perfect sense, in HIS brain. If you would, please, who killed who to save whom? Crusader killed his apprentice because he was going too far in killing criminals. CES Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steriaca Posted March 2, 2016 Report Share Posted March 2, 2016 Crusader killed his apprentice because he was going too far in killing criminals. CES I believe what he wants is name of the book the information is in, the name of the apprentice, and what the page number is. Back up your post with facts, especially if you state them as canon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Bear Posted March 2, 2016 Report Share Posted March 2, 2016 Marksman is Donald Henderson. Beyond that, what Enforcer84 said about him is accurate. Marksman's weapon of choice is the pair of sonic pistols he carries. He also likes to carry various other equipment/weapons (a small VVP). Crusader is Sam Saunders. He carries a shield (ahla Captain America), and can basically do what Cap does with it (physical Blast, Deflection, Reflection, Hand-To-Hand Attack, Killing Attack Hand-To-Hand Reduced Penatration). He is also a skilled acrobat, and I think carries a swing line. Is that the current version? I know 4th his shield only did missile defflect. He had a glider cape lots of streetwise skills and martial arts. I believe in third edition he had rocket boots! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steriaca Posted March 2, 2016 Report Share Posted March 2, 2016 Is that the current version? I know 4th his shield only did missile defflect. He had a glider cape lots of streetwise skills and martial arts. I believe in third edition he had rocket boots! I was going on memory, so I was half wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csyphrett Posted March 2, 2016 Report Share Posted March 2, 2016 I believe what he wants is name of the book the information is in, the name of the apprentice, and what the page number is. Back up your post with facts, especially if you state them as canon. Firstly I only answering the post above about pronoun trouble so I don't have to back up anything. Secondly Crusader dies in Underworld Enemies Page 93, killed by Crusade/Daniel Sheridan. Crusader's girlfriend picks up the Purge armor to hunt him down in turn. CES Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassandra Posted March 2, 2016 Report Share Posted March 2, 2016 The original Marksman was Donald Henderson, the President of Henderson Electronics (or Technology). He was a member of The Guardians (Champions in the comic book), the groups weapons master and gadgeteer. Crusader was Sam Saunders, a CIA Agent who was captured and brainwashed by VIPER, who broke free after killing an innocent victim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted March 2, 2016 Report Share Posted March 2, 2016 I have long wanted to find those old Guardians character sheets but nobody seems to have them around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassandra Posted March 2, 2016 Report Share Posted March 2, 2016 Marksman's write up was in one of the Champions comic books from Eclipse Comics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted March 2, 2016 Report Share Posted March 2, 2016 Names! Names I suck at names! Thanks for the corrections ladies and gents Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csyphrett Posted March 2, 2016 Report Share Posted March 2, 2016 Crusader's fourth ed write up is in Underworld Enemies. Do you need a copy of that, Chris? CES Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher R Taylor Posted March 2, 2016 Report Share Posted March 2, 2016 Marksman's write up was in one of the Champions comic books from Eclipse Comics. Yeah, but that was the writer's version, not the real guy. He doesn't count. I have Crusader in 4th edition champs, and rebuilt him for 6th, but Marksman, Gargoyle, Rose, and the rest :/ No such luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjd59 Posted March 2, 2016 Report Share Posted March 2, 2016 I've done all the Gaurdians for 6th, just never posted them here because I thought about the copyrights and stuff. I could if its not any sort of infringement. Don't know myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armitage Posted March 2, 2016 Report Share Posted March 2, 2016 Old issues of Adventurer's Club mentioned an upcoming Guardians sourcebook, but that obviously never happened. Gargoyle had left the team by the time the comic started, so he never received a write-up in the comics like the other characters did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasha Posted March 2, 2016 Report Share Posted March 2, 2016 Marksman is James Hudson, depending on where you go - Heroic Publishing owns the rights but he was apparently an age retardant normal (his family just aged very well) and served in the military before becoming a hero. In Champions New Millennium he was from a line of mutants who had enhanced physiologies but most bits were the same. He was injured but survived the battle against the Proprietor and went into retirement. Hudson Industries was a big deal I think Crusader was Sam...Sterns? He was a guy who was brainwashed by VIPER broke it became a hero. When Dark Champions came out he took an apprentice but the guy proved mentally unstable and killed him to save him. No you are wrong about Marksman. Bruce Harlick OWNS The Marksman. It is his character from the original Guardians Campaign. You will notice that Heroic Publishing changed the name and colorscheme of The Marksman shortly after the Eclipse Comics run. That was because their permission to use the character lapsed. AFAIK the only official Version of The Marksman ever published by Hero Games appeared in Champions New Millennium. A retired version that had a leg injury that effected his ability to dodge attacks (ie low DCV, and IIRC end based DCV to compensate). The SecretID is Donald Henderson. He's a Mutant, with superstats (Int, Dex, Spd, CV), healing factor, long lifespan. Also a bit of a gadgeteer with is Sonic Rifle. I have a direct conversion from the 4e CNM version. Bruce was Line Editor during that time, so I would imagine that version is authorative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasha Posted March 2, 2016 Report Share Posted March 2, 2016 Old issues of Adventurer's Club mentioned an upcoming Guardians sourcebook, but that obviously never happened. Gargoyle had left the team by the time the comic started, so he never received a write-up in the comics like the other characters did. I would imagine that character's player pulled the rights for the character. (IIRC Gargoyle was played by Mark Miller(sp?) the guy who drew most of the artwork in the first Champions Supplements and the classic character outlines) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assault Posted March 2, 2016 Report Share Posted March 2, 2016 Mark Williams never ceded the rights to Gargoyle, so there has never been a published version of him. On the other hand, "Microfilm Madness", a scenario published in Space Gamer #61, contained a villain named Gremlin who received her powers from the same serum that gave Gargoyle his. That suggests that you wouldn't be far wrong if you took her character sheet and shuffled a few points around. The scenario was written by George MacDonald, who I think may have been Gargoyle's GM. A somewhat different version of Gremlin was published in Classic Enemies. You could use her as the basis of a more powerful version of Gargoyle, at the expense of less "authenticity". Marksman was named in some of the examples in the 2e Champions rulebook. These describe a couple of pieces of equipment. I think you could get pretty close by basing him off the Nest Leader in Vipers Nest, with a bit of Crusader mixed in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelCold Posted March 2, 2016 Report Share Posted March 2, 2016 I thought in the DC version, it was RAVEN not Viper Crusader was brainwashed by. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Bear Posted March 3, 2016 Report Share Posted March 3, 2016 I thought in the DC version, it was RAVEN not Viper Crusader was brainwashed by. That could very well be however there is no mention of him in DC 4th so what edition of DC then 5th or 6th? $ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assault Posted March 3, 2016 Report Share Posted March 3, 2016 That could very well be however there is no mention of him in DC 4th so what edition of DC then 5th or 6th? $ It would have been in Underworld Enemies, if SteelCold is correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelCold Posted March 3, 2016 Report Share Posted March 3, 2016 It would have been in Underworld Enemies, if SteelCold is correct. Yes that book, according to Crusader's background. Sorry if I wasn't clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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