JmOz Posted June 29, 2018 Report Share Posted June 29, 2018 So my street level players are part of an investigation to get some top secret rifles off of the streets. Brute (Think hulk) was able to look at the blueprints of the guns and deduce what they could do...Our investigator is terrified...:) First off defenses are in the 10-20 range, usually about 1/2 are rDEF 60 point MP 4d6 RKA 2d6 RKA, AP, AF, Increased Stun, + Charges 8d6 PB, AP, +Charges 7d6 Flash (Sight, Hearing, Explosive 2d6 RKA, AE, Penetrating +4d6 HA 0 End/ Stretching 1m +1d6 HKA 0 End/ Stretching 1m In my defense the gangers have about 1/2 the OCV of the DCV of the heroes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted June 29, 2018 Report Share Posted June 29, 2018 2 minutes ago, JmOz said: So my street level players are part of an investigation to get some top secret rifles off of the streets. Brute (Think hulk) was able to look at the blueprints of the guns and deduce what they could do...Our investigator is terrified...:) First off defenses are in the 10-20 range, usually about 1/2 are rDEF 60 point MP 4d6 RKA 2d6 RKA, AP, AF, Increased Stun, + Charges 8d6 PB, AP, +Charges 7d6 Flash (Sight, Hearing, Explosive 2d6 RKA, AE, Penetrating +4d6 HA 0 End/ Stretching 1m +1d6 HKA 0 End/ Stretching 1m In my defense the gangers have about 1/2 the OCV of the DCV of the heroes And in your offense, they have a 2d6 Killing AREA EFFECT attack don't they? Lucius Alexander In my defense, I have a palindromedary to hide behind..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted June 29, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 29, 2018 Area Effect PENETRATING attacks... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grailknight Posted June 29, 2018 Report Share Posted June 29, 2018 From what you describe, they are right to be terrified. These guns sound like they are on par or better than the hero'es attacks in DCs. Luck of the dice can wreck a scenario or a PC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surrealone Posted June 29, 2018 Report Share Posted June 29, 2018 Having approx. half the OCV of the attackers is not a defense for your bad guys if you only have to target a DCV of 3 to hit the hex -- especially since it's penetrating and also isn't a significantly limited number (i.e. 1 or 2) of charges. Sounds to me like your street level characters need to get themselves some ballistic armour that uses the latest carbon nanotube technology (to layer over top of whatever defenses they already possess), because the defense level you suggest isn't adequate for the firepower they are potentially facing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted June 30, 2018 Report Share Posted June 30, 2018 They just need to buy one or two levels of Combat Luck. It's Hardened and Impenetrable so makes a nice addition to any hero's defenses. One PC in my current campaign had a small amount of body armor and SIX LEVELS of Combat Luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanguard Posted June 30, 2018 Report Share Posted June 30, 2018 It's been a while, but I don't recall Combat Luck being useful against AoE attacks . . . could be misremembering though. And I know everything is campaign dependant and all but SIX levels of Combat Luck? Isn't that a bit . . . excessive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assault Posted June 30, 2018 Report Share Posted June 30, 2018 Tactics, tactics, tactics. If the PCs get into a face to face slugging match with these thugs, they deserve what they get. That said, these weapons should probably have serious limitations if the PCs aren't to become redundant or at least not superheroes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba smith Posted June 30, 2018 Report Share Posted June 30, 2018 wouldn't low powered street level heroes be DARK CHAMPIONS ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanguard Posted June 30, 2018 Report Share Posted June 30, 2018 3 hours ago, assault said: If the PCs get into a face to face slugging match with these thugs, they deserve what they get. Hmm, I see your point. Especially after the blueprints have been gone over. So forewarned is forearmed but tactics can only take you so far. And as we all know, no plan survives contact with the enemy. So the PCs could plan everything down to the smallest detail, do everything right and STILL end up in a face to face slugging match. If that happens, do they still deserve what they get? I can understand wanting to challenge your PCs and a hard fought battle is one of the best and most fun I've had in a game. But with the way those weapons are written up, there doesn't seem to be much wiggle room for the PCs when the lead starts to fly. Granted I don't know the stats of the players other than they have decent CVs (But one of the slots is AoE with Penetrating so doesn't do 'em much good) so they might be alright and just having a knee jerk reaction to the raw numbers. (I'm guilty of this and try not to let it get the better of me). Also, if these guys are truly "thugs" THEY may not have the tactical know how to deal with the PCs . . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted June 30, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2018 A few comments The game is what Hero Games would call "Dark Champions: The Animated Series". I hate that name. If there is a spectrum, this is on the side of Champions, but close to the middle The guns: These guns are for this story arc only, however not saying a few won't show up here and there. They are built for an ultra elite task force of the military, that concentrates on terrorists (Like Viper) The thugs in question are OCV/DCV 4. 25 stun, 5/5 Def (heroes are about CV 8, stun 30-40, def 10-20, most have combat luck, 8-12 DC). Also the thugs are smart enough to not use the grenade rounds in confined areas but are just gang bangers. For that matter, thinking things through...most should be -3 with the guns... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanguard Posted June 30, 2018 Report Share Posted June 30, 2018 @JmOz If that's the case, then depending on how many of the thugs there are. A decent planning session should be enough to find a way to limit the raw power of the weapons themselves. 'Cause even with those CV levels, the thugs could get lucky. And (projecting here) that tells me the PCs (probably) did what I would've done. Both in character and out. Seen the raw numbers and immediately panicked and started doomsaying. Yes, it's a personality flaw and yes I'm trying to work through it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted June 30, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2018 Pretty much..the pcs also have 2 to 3 speed on them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted June 30, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2018 Also don't see more than 3 guns on an encounter (well 35 guns are planned but only 4 hangers in the scene where they stop the pipeline) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assault Posted July 1, 2018 Report Share Posted July 1, 2018 11 hours ago, JmOz said: The thugs in question are OCV/DCV 4. 25 stun, 5/5 Def (heroes are about CV 8, stun 30-40, def 10-20, most have combat luck, 8-12 DC). Also the thugs are smart enough to not use the grenade rounds in confined areas but are just gang bangers. For that matter, thinking things through...most should be -3 with the guns... How many of them are there? What are their presence scores? How do they compare to the PCs? Do they have records? If they are gangbangers, it might be possible to at least tentatively identify them as individuals. If nothing else, identify one and check out who he is known to associate with. Once identified, it might be possible to gain useful information about them - what are their habits, where do they hang out, are any of them drug dependent, do any have medical conditions, etc. It might, for example, be possible to get them too wasted to be able to fight effectively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted July 1, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2018 Just ran the scenario. Brute (brick) took some stun...from a fall Dragonfly's ship SEVERELY Damaged (3 body remaining) by government agents Dragonfly, Midnight Avenger & Bandit...Never were touched Heroes got the drop on a group about to make a buy, then the sellers showed up...Dragonfly hit them with a strobe from the ship, the 4 gangers fell really quick. When the gun salesman showed up (with 2 powered armor goons) they used a stun grenade...and some other attacks, took them out one round of combat (the villains literally only got one attack off all night) While searching the vehicle, Government agent showed up, heroes ran...Government used the rifles to attack the airship doing all the damage to it assault 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted July 1, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2018 They got 4 out of 5 xp for the adventure 2 for length (2 sessions) 1 for RPG 1 for challenge missed 1 for solving the who is actually providing the guns (though one player suspects the truth, none have found the evidence yet...) assault and Amorkca 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Bear Posted July 1, 2018 Report Share Posted July 1, 2018 Sounds fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba smith Posted July 1, 2018 Report Share Posted July 1, 2018 that answers my question \\\ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted July 1, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2018 42 minutes ago, bubba smith said: that answers my question \\\ Glad it helped Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archer Posted July 5, 2018 Report Share Posted July 5, 2018 Honestly, if my GM put those guns into a scenario, I’d look into blowing up the gangbangers’ homes at night while not in my normal costumed identity. Or I’d roleplay moving to another city until someone else took out the bad guys. Your players must trust you A LOT. Glad the heroes survived. Lucky the heroes survived. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndianaJoe3 Posted July 6, 2018 Report Share Posted July 6, 2018 With good tactics the guns could have been very nasty. The flash can neutralize the heroes' CV advantage, and the KAs will routinely do BODY - sometimes a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted July 6, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2018 True, and if they ever run into STAR in an Oppositional manner they are in serious trouble. However, a bunch of gang bangers are not big on tactics. The fights tended to have the heroes doing lightning strikes, the gangers did not even really get a chance...The only reason damage was done was that Dragonfly (think Blue Beetle-Ted Kord) stuck around to try to get some evidence when he knew the government was on it's way. I really appreciate the comment about my players trust me. Part of that trust is that I am not "out to get them", but rather a good story. Gangers are not going to be using SWAT like tactics, or have super level attributes, and any big threat will be warned ahead of time... Overall I consider the adventure a success. I really need to write up the blog entry about how it went... assault and Amorkca 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
countnemo Posted July 8, 2018 Report Share Posted July 8, 2018 so what stops your heroes from taking those guns plan and making them. since the villains have access to these Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmOz Posted July 8, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2018 45 experience points and they can have one ?. Most of my players understand the genre well enough to not try to ...That mentality is for our Pathfinder game. XP wise 2 players did get flash defense (more because of their teammate than the enemy), so none seem to want one of those guns right now... If you mean in story, they did not have time to. No one asked to BTW... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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