DreadDomain

There is also Destined, a superhero roleplaying game based on Mythras (aka RuneQuest 6e) published in 2022.

That's fair. I do not mind Hero Machine for a fan product. For a paid commercial product, I prefer no art over Hero Machine. But that's just me. 

4 hours ago, IndianaJoe3 said:

 

It has a lot of Hero Games B&W stock art from previous products. I  didn't see anything new.

 

ETA: I have the draft version from the Hero Games Patreon. The finished product might have different (better) art.

That's ok, much better than Hero Machine art.

Is the book graced with Hero Machine pictures? 

On 8/22/2022 at 7:25 AM, fdw3773 said:

While updating various files in preparation for the upcoming Extra Life charity game event along with some conversations with people I know in the local rpg community, I realized that Hero System is no longer my "go-to" game of choice for superhero and fantasy as it was back when I was in high school and college. Since I now run sessions at local game events where players arrive and use a pregenerated character, player interest has leaned more towards rules light systems like ICONS that are easy to understand and pick up upon arrival. I haven't ran Fantasy AGE yet, but after some brief conversations with a few who are either new to RPGs or have played D&D, the impression I got from them was that Fantasy AGE was preferable over Fantasy Hero.

 

Does anyone else find themselves in the same situation? Or is Hero still your "go-to" rpg system? 🤔

Sadly, the answer has to be no. I only came to realize it a few months ago while answering "What are the Top 10 Tabletop Roleplaying Games of All Time (that you have personally played)?" on RPG.net. I instinctively started asking myself who would rank first, HERO or GURPS but when I went through the though process, the real question was if it would even finish second (it did) or would it slip to third.

No doubt I still love HERO but nowadays, if I want to play fantasy, modern action, supernatural horror, post-apocalypse, science-fiction, etc, I will probably consider one, two or half a dozen games before HERO. In the past many years, it was my go-to only when it comes to super but If I was to start a game now, I am not even sure I would choose it.

It also pains me to say that the last book published by HERO that I enjoyed and found "professionally" done was Golden Age Champions, must have been 5 years ago now.

If DOJ doesn't pick up their game, or sell the property to someone who will do the system justice, I am afraid the next time I answer a similar question in a few years, it may slip to third or maybe not even make the top 3.  

3 minutes ago, Hugh Neilson said:

We don't need a rework of the tools in the toolkit.  We need ACTUAL GAMES that people can ACTUALLY PLAY built using the toolkit.  The toolkit doesn't need to be at the forefront of these games.  They don't even need to include the builds defined in toolkit terms - put that online for interested folks. Build a game Powered by HERO without pulling back the curtain to show the crunchy Hero System build mechanics. Sell people a GAME, not a huge set of tiny parts they can use to build a game. 

 

A game where you CAN'T build whatever you imagine - you build what the choices made by the user of the toolkit already made for you.  Now play, and see how well the game plays.  And if, after that, you want to look under the hood, and maybe even do your own tinkering, you can always buy the Hero System and do so.

Yes, we are on the same wavelength here.

19 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

Honestly, I would not. I have zero interest in a new iteration of Hero System.

8 hours ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

Honestly, I would not. I have zero interest in a new iteration of Hero System. 

How dare you contradict me!

Honestly my comment was more about expressing support for what would come next than expressing a desire for a new edition.

What I would really want to see are professionally published books, to today's standards. 

I want much better organised character write-ups instead of the wall of stuff we sometimes see. The character sheet is the player/GM interface. It needs to be organised, it needs to be easy to read, it needs to look good.

HERO 6E is a powerful toolkit.  I would like to see this toolkit used to create games. And by using the toolkit I mean introducing concepts that are built using the toolkit but presented as a game element. One game could introduced figured characteristics (with primaries cost appropriately), another could remove MCVs and END and add COM. Another could add a list of talents using the toolkit but without writing them with all the lingo (-1/2, +3/4).

MHI and Extinction Event (I know it's not from DoJ) were steps in the right direction. Western HERO is a step in the right direction when it comes to content but it needs a much better presentation, better art, better organisation, better look. And the character write-ups in the book are the same wall of stuff.

Edited to add: This last point is not a critique of Christopher's work. He has done what I want writers to do with the system. I feel like DoJ didn't come to the party to develop, edit, organise and publish the book.

I want Champions Complete revised and republished to today's standards. This book should be the flagship of the line.

I want Danger International and Justice Inc.

I want HERO to be able to attract new players.

15 hours ago, fdw3773 said:

Well, when was the last time Champions fun for you?

To answer the question directly, the last time Champions was fun for me was 6E. Do I think 6E is perfect? Of course not. Do I approve all the changes that 6E brought? No. Do I believe it's a bloody good game. Hell yeah!

What is my favorite edition? Probably a blend of 4, 5 and 6. Given a choice between all editions, which one would I choose? 6E.

But if I could, I would play 7E

On 6/9/2022 at 1:17 PM, Strand said:

I think the better question would have been what would you have played if D&D didn't exist because other games existed after it because they didn't like how D&D worked.

In this alternate universe where everything else  is being equal, I would have started my RPG life with l'Oeil Noir first edition, then moved on to Pendragon and thereafter to RuneQuest, Chaosium and Stormbringer. While trying a bunch of other games, HarnMaster, Talislanta, WFRP, Bushido, Rêve de Dragons, Empires et Dynasties, Rolemaster and more I forget at the moment, RQ3 would have remained my go to game until I would have discovered GURPS and then HERO. Both games would come to dominate my gaming life for 2 decades until BRP would come forward once more with Mythras, Call of Cthulhu and RuneQuest and join GURPS and HERO as my go to games.

I guess this alternate universe wouldn't be much different than this one after all. 

On 5/5/2022 at 10:58 AM, Tjack said:

   I got into Champions because a girl asked me to.  I was chasing after her and she was in a game and knew I was into comic books in a big way. I loved the game and stayed with it long after she and I were no more.  
   So you’ll have to ask her what game she would have been playing ‘cause she could have asked me to try laying down in traffic and I would have said OK.

Now we want to know, are you still with that girl today?

Assuming the disappearance of Champions would have left everything else unchanged, my early start would have been through SuperWorld and DC Heroes. Then I would have moved on to GURPS Supers. I would have dabbled in DC Universe, M&M and Marvel Heroic. The question is would I have stuck with GURPS Supers. I think so.

3 hours ago, schir1964 said:

PS - The is the second time I've seen someone mentioned an attached file but for the life of me I can't see any sign of one (link, button, or so forth). First it was Scott Ruggel's .hdc file and now your RTF file. I can see Scott Ruggels screenshot okay. Am I missing something?

It's because I have not attached it! I was refering to the .rtf files that comes with the download linked previously. Thx.

17 hours ago, schir1964 said:

I've refactored the Default Template into my own version of it.

 

CEM Export Template Default HTML for 6th Edition

 

Same layout and data but with some minor styling differences.

Corrected typo in the Combat Modifiers header.

Fixed page breaks.

 

I'd like to opinions on it. What you like or don't like.

 

I'm open to doing more templates if anyone wants me to.

I think I can slap a template together pretty quick now that got a pattern to follow.

 

 

 

Hi Chris, It would be super useful to provide a screenshot so people can quickly see the style of the sheet.

Also, would it be possible to use the word character sheet I have attached as an inspiration to create a .rtf file?

In a nutshell,

• organise the sheet by functions (primary characteristics, movement, offensive, defense, skills, talents, perks, skills powers, complications)
• No values for advantages and limitations (no +½ or -¼).
• No real cost for characteristics, skills, talents, etc.

The rest might be more difficult as I abbreviate many redundant terms but if it's a .rtf, it's easy to manually modify.

I hope it helps. 

5 hours ago, HeroGM said:

But does it want to be massaged?

I think it wants it but I know it needs it!.

6 hours ago, schir1964 said:

To make an export to build a Word document from scratch would require a Java Plugin. I've never programmed in Java and I have no desire to learn that language at this time. Sorry.

Sorry, I was unclear. I meant that the format/flow seen in the word character sheet attached is more or less what I am after. I actually use one of the .rft extract and bring it in Word for final massaging.

2 hours ago, schir1964 said:

Does anybody have any Characters (hdc) for 6th Edition they would be willing to share? I would be using them for testing the export template I am working on.

You can use any of these if you want 

As an aside, the word character sheet is more or less what I am after. In a nutshell, organise the sheet by functions. Primary characteristics, movement, offensive, defense, skills, talents, perks, skills powers, complications. No values for advantages and limitations. No real cost.

I hope it helps. 

Is this your work!? man it's great and belongs in a Hero book.

3 hours ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

Someone else is supposedly working on Justice Inc and Danger International

What!? That is the first I hear of this. Can you point me somewhere with more info?

On 10/15/2021 at 12:20 PM, greypaladin_01 said:

I have always done something similar in my games and when teaching others to play.

(11+OCV) - 3d6 = DCV hit

 

People can adjust their math as needed and speeds things up a great deal.

That's pretty much how we have been doing it for a long time. As a player, even if they don't know their opponent's DCV, they can still roll like they would for any other skills and declare "I succeed by X" which is the same as "I hit DCV X".

8 hours ago, Foklin said:

I have not played Champions in years(the mid 90's) and really only made one character, now my nearly 17 yo son wants to run a game.  For this game I am trying to make a Colossus type Champions character that his alter ego activates on a 13- character roll as he is new to his powers, that I will eventually buy off with XP as we progress.  My question is would I place all his powers under a Multipower frame work with fixed costs for each power?  Not sure what to do as his powers are an all or nothing kind of thing so having each power have the roll does not really work.  What I am looking at is the following powers that Require roll to activate: 13- (-1/4):, OIAID (-1/4):

 

1] Enhanced STR (60), cost 1/2 END (+1/4)

2] Enhanced CON (25)

3] Enhanced combat (OCV-7, DCV-8)

4] Metal Body (PD-25, ED-25), Hardened (+1/4)

5] Enhanced Recovery (20)

6] Tireless END (50)

7] Enhanced Body (60)

8] Heavy: Knock back resistance -10m

9] Temp Resistance: Energy Damage Reduction, resistance 50%, Only works against electricity based attacks (-1/2)

 

Thanks for any help

Hi Foklin,

If it helps, you can find a write-up of Colossus here 

It's 99% based on the Book of Templates I.

1 minute ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

 

The implication is "buy more dice of Aid with 'only to increase maximum' as a limitation on it"

Agreed. It's an implication and (I don't believe) the value of the limitation is stated anywhere. 

6 hours ago, Grailknight said:

Damage over Time ... Aid doesn't need it because it reaches it's maximum effect in two applications given average rolls.  

Good points regarding Cumulative vs DoT. Regarding DoT, you are correct, it requires the GM to waive the "Maximum Effect". It mentions waiving the "Repeated Use" of Healing but not Maximi Effect specifically. Ok, it's probably a bridge too far and DoT is not appropriate to increase the Maximum effect of Aid. And probably too clunky anyway.

6 hours ago, Grailknight said:

Both are powerful Advantages that need GM oversight. If you bring back Increased  Maximum Effect for Aid,  you just add another thing for the GM to monitor. 

It's the other way around, in my opinion. Bringing back Increased Maximum Effect (as an Adder, not an advantage) removes ambiguity on how it's supposed to work. In 4th, there was never any confusion about it. It was right there in the write-up of Aid.

4 hours ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

In 6th edition... You can buy cumulative on anything except powers which are already cumulative (most attack powers that do stun and body) or powers that specifically state they cannot be purchased with cumulative (such as Aid or any other power that increases points, or Entangle).  Most adjustment powers can be bought cumulative, for instance (such as dispel).

True, I was bending the rules with Cumulative as well because it felt appropriate even if specifically forbidden. I undersatnd why, it can easily be abused.

4 hours ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

But this doesn't really address the problems with Aids that can build up to more points than the dice allow, and I think Hero does need some kind of mechanic to address that other than the clunky "just buy more dice, dude" approach.

Apparently, there are no ways to increase maximum effect in 6th, or at least not clearly started.

It's  only yesterday I was looking at the Jade Brute in the HERO System Templates and I was wondering why his "Strongest there is" power was built that way (essentially a few STR+5 with various delays). Surely this is what Aid is for, I thought. Buy enough Aid to get a standard effect of +5 per phase, increase the maximum to whatever you need and add the appropriate advantages and limitations required and done. Easy.

I was flabbergasted to realize the adder to increase maximum effect on Aid was last seen in 4th Edition! Looking at the advantages, I thought the most appropriate would be Cumulative or Damage Over Time, which specifically states it can be used as Effect Over Time.

The write-up with Cumulative ends up costing 15 points to potentially increase STR by 72 over 15 phases while the write up with Damage Over time costs 24 points to potentially increase STR by 60 over 12 phases. One huge difference is that Cumulative doubles each +¼ while Damage Over Time works in increment.

The Strongest There Is! (38 Active Points, 15 Real Points)

Aid STR  1 ½d6 (standard effect: 5 points), up to + 72

Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2),

Delayed Return Rate (points return at the rate of 5 per Minute; +1)

Trigger (Activating the Trigger requires a Zero Phase Action, Trigger resets automatically, immediately after it activates, Character does not control activation of personal Trigger; +1/2), Cumulative (up to 72 points; +1 1/4)

Only to Aid Self (-1)

Power Fades Upon Recovering From Enraged (-1/2)

The Strongest There Is! (61 Active Points, 24 Real Points)

Aid STR  1 ½d6 (standard effect: 5 points), up to + 60

Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2),

Delayed Return Rate (points return at the rate of 5 per Minute; +1)

Trigger (Activating the Trigger requires a Zero Phase Action, Trigger requires a Zero Phase Action to reset, Character does not control activation of personal Trigger; +1/4),

Damage Over Time (12 damage increments, damage occurs every other Segment, +4)

Only to Aid Self (-1)

Power Fades Upon Recovering From Enraged (-1/2)

Now what if we use an Adder similar to what was in 4^th (+2 to max by +1 pts)? The short of it, it becomes even more expensive. While I prefer the Adder method from 4^th, +2 per 1 pts is probably not the right cost. When you think about it, I could buy STR+60, Only when Enraged -½ for 40 points instead and have the whole +60 available the moment I because enraged (well, not me, my character).

The Strongest There Is! (96 Active Points, 38 Real Points)

Aid STR  1 ½d6 (standard effect: 5 points), Increased maximum to + 61

Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2),

Delayed Return Rate (points return at the rate of 5 per Minute; +1)

Trigger (Activating the Trigger requires a Zero Phase Action, Trigger requires a Zero Phase Action to reset, Character does not control activation of personal Trigger; +1/4),

Only to Aid Self (-1)

Power Fades Upon Recovering From Enraged (-1/2)

Any thought on which approach (Cumulative or Damage Over Time) gives a more balanced cost?. As an exercise, by using STR +5 with Only when Enraged -½ and with limitations similar to the Extra Time table. Assuming an extra +5 plus be triggered each phase for 2 Turns (which means the limitations for the second turn is topped at -1½), the cost comes at 23, 24 points. It feels like it is more in line with Damage over Time than it is with Cumulative.

Which also brings the question, are DoT and Cumulative trying to accomplish the same thing but in different ways?

I am very tempted to buy these POD if only to provide copies that are a bit easier to handle than the hardcovers. Not that I would ever part with my HCs...

On 9/19/2021 at 11:17 AM, Christopher R Taylor said:

OK So I might have over done a bit on the Talents.  There are 99, including most of the standard ones.  Some are rewrites or reinterpretations of a few of the talents in the Fantasy Hero Complete book.  I actually dropped many talents as well.

 

But there are combat talents to give straight fighters an edge, magic talents to tweak how spells work, leadership talents that act to enhance the team or dismay opponents, sneaky talents for rogue types, stance talents for different combat situations, and a bunch of new overall talents like this one:

 

SPRINGBACK: Allows the character to instantly and without any time leap back to their feet, on their phase.

Cost: 2 points

 

The concept is that I want everyone who builds a character to have lots of options to enhance and craft their concept even if they don't have spells.

 

It looks good. While I am a long term HERO player and GM I prefer when games using it avoid writing talents or spells using the full write-ups (including modifier values). The Springback write-up gives me all I need. I saw somewhere else you have  Field Guide available. Do you have a pdf preview for it?

15 hours ago, Hugh Neilson said:

Perfectly fair, again, nor was I trying to single out your suggestions from the broad impact of "just one or two more things in the book".  But it was adding "just one or two more clarifications" multiple times that grew 4e to 6e.

 

Of course. But if this thread would lead to a revised or updated CC, I can only assume the feedback would be diligently proritized, as 1) reasonable feedback that can be reasonably be implemented, 2) reasonable feedback to is too difficult to implement or going against the objective and 3) rejected feedback.

One big misconception about feedback, is that it must, and will be implemented. This way lies madness and often leads the requester of feedback to only want to receive opinions that fall under the first category and perceive opinions of the second and third categories as "too much feedback", "feedback I do not want" or "people are just complaining". It totally defeats the purpose of feedback.

Anyway, moving on...

2 minutes ago, Derek Hiemforth said:

 

The following is from CC, p6.  I don't know how to say it more clearly. 

 

"You won’t find many phrases in this book like “at the GM’s discretion” or “if the GM allows” or “with special permission from the GM” because all of those are assumed at all times. For example, the rules just state that Special Powers can’t be bought in a Power Framework. They don’t add “unless the GM gives special permission” or the like, because it’s assumed; the GM can always give special permission. Likewise, even though nothing in the rules implies that the Stealth Skill is optional in any way, that doesn’t automatically mean every GM must permit any character to buy Stealth. Every campaign is unique, and if a GM thinks his game will work better – be more fun for all involved – by allowing something the rules as written don’t allow, then he is absolutely empowered to allow it. Likewise, if disallowing something normally allowed would be better, or if some rule in the system would suit his game more if it worked differently, then he can certainly make those changes."

And this is something I really appreciate of CC in contrast of 6E. I suspect by only cutting similar statements in 6E, you can probably cut 50 pages right there... 😉