Duke Bushido

Re: I don't quite grok the Multiform rules. Okay, I went to work today, so I'm all rested . Let me see if I can sum all that stream-of-consciousness stuff up a bit clearer: The XP and advancement debates could go on for ever and ever with no clear answer. All the suggestions in this thread are equally valid, and will all depend on what works best for management of your world and your players. Recapped: 1) The as-stated 1 to 5 ratio, spent at the whim of the player. 2) 1-to-five, but with a limit on how many may be spent on the MF (Steve Long's suggestion, as noted earlier in the thread) 3) 1 to 1x#forms, with 1 being awarded to each available form for each one spent by the base form. 4) 1 to 1x# forms, limit 1 to 5, to be divided amongst the forms 5) Each form must earn his own XP. Again, all valid methods of controlling advancement. Pick what works best for you. My biggest problem with the advancement of MF at the written 1 to 5 is that it the only way immediately recognizeable to keep the form from advancing far ahead of the other characters is to mandate a minimum number of forms, or select one of the above options for spending XP on MF. And of course there is going to be a contingent of players and GMs alike who aren't happy with changing anything from the book. After all, MF gives a _lot_ of potential utility. So be it. No one is suggesting that you differ from the book in anyway. But as I said, I am not completely satisfied with the book's 1 to 5 advancement rate for a single addtional form. And that reason is simple. MF, one addtional form, is essentially OIHID at -5. Want a 10d6 EB, OIHID? Costs 37 points. Want one in MF? Costs 10 points. Big savings. Yes, the standard answer has always been 'but he's not in hero ID, because he no longer has access to the things that he did in his base form. If I can post a few more brain squeezins, it seems to me that OIHID has an obvious corollary, and that would be "_Not_ in Heroic ID." Does the Hulk have all the tech skills of his human counterpart? Of course not; the human half bought those skills (and whatever other abilities) NIHID. I rather like this idea for a single form, actually. It still provides a bit of extra utility (nearly everything on both sheets will warrant a Limitation cost break) for the concept, but does not award what is essentially a list of powers, skills, and characteristics all bought with a -5 Limitation. The 'altered form' can still get some cost savings, as can the base form. Actually, I think I may playtest this some time in the future, just to see how it goes over. But for a single form MF, this has potential. It also keeps intact the concept of MF as representing 'animal boy' or some other concept with a number of altered forms. ------------------------ Who pays for bases? :

Re: Problem with creating a FH spell. Well I am glad that we've generated this much interest, but I can't say I like Steve's answer. Not so much because the answer shoots the 'tookit' idea in the foot, but because it brings back that old D&D feeling of 'you need more books or you can't do it.' I'd have been happier knowing why or why not either of these constructs was legal, of course, but at least we know for sure that there is a book-legal way to do this. The downside being of course, that I need more books, or I can't do it.

Re: Help converting a couple of GURPS abilities to Hero Considering many of the suggested uses of penalty skills-- Environmental movement, encubrance movement, etc, I don't think that PSLs were ever intended to be specifically for combat. The bulk of the examples do lean that way, but I think that is simply because the bulk of most RPGs center around combat. Despite our intentions to tell a story, or our intentions to share a fantasy, it seems that deep down, what we really want to do is whack the snot out of something!

Re: Double Focus Limitations

Re: Help converting a couple of GURPS abilities to Hero You might consider building that 'sanitize self' thing as a Disadvantage, DF-- oddly, weirldly, unexplainably, freaky-clean person. Depending on how practical vs limiting it is in actual use, of course.

Re: I don't quite grok the Multiform rules. Under the current rules, the option that occurs to me is to keep in mind that all the forms are the character who paid for it. Only if you adopt some of the other suggestions from this conversation-- particularly any of the one-to-one suggestions, does it even make number sense to charge the other forms. Of course, that's tantamount to charging the same character [# of forms] times what everyone else is paying, but frankly, they got that experience for free, so there's still an element of the gimmie. If you go with one-for-one, limit five, it becomes reasonably fair to charge the additional forms after ten forms. But even then, half of what they are paying was still free, it just took a lot longer to gain. keep in mind that I was headed to bed (and still am, as soon as this goes up), so my numbers may be good and way off, but from what I'm seeing in my head, it only makes sense that the base character pays for the base, and all other forms use it. The only possible exceptions are if there exists and alter that is distinctly _not_ the base form, such as that demon motorcycle guy whose name escapes me...... And I'm certainly not going to think about how to charge him tonight. Again; 'Night all.

Re: I don't quite grok the Multiform rules.

Re: Help converting a couple of GURPS abilities to Hero

Re: Bye all Nice!

Re: I'm sensing something's wrong

Re: Some Cheap Gadgets It's not glamorous, but consider maybe 'refining' the goggles enough to buy off the disad, or buy it down a bit. "Cool! I can finally see through plate glass!" That sort of thing.

Re: Ay yi yi II: More GM Help Needed. Perhaps he could twist the upheld arm of Lady Liberty into a sort of 'thumbs down' as an ominous sign of things to come......

Re: Continous Area Effect Entangle

Re: open door spell Indeed! Rep for common sense and perspective!

Re: Dinosaur Planet Forgive me; I had not read this far when I posted. I'm sorry to interrupt your thread.

Re: Dinosaur Planet OH-OH-OH! If you have any access at all to old radio programs, I strongly recommend one-- was it X (minus) 1? I don't recall-- called 'the Wires.' I _believe_ it was originally scripted by Dickson, but I can't remember now; far, far too many years...... At any rate, it was an excellent story, and may give you a great deal of insight on the psychic Saurials you were mentioning. Crap. I think I may have just indavertantly 'dated' that info I gave you above.....

Re: Dinosaur Planet

Re: Help converting a couple of GURPS abilities to Hero Well I think we've solved one of the three! Selective conception: 1 or 2 points, depending on campaign relevance. Frankly, unless carrying a child is essential to the completion of the story arc or something, I might not even charge for it.......

Re: open door spell So far, I like this one the best. Nice and elegant, with an unususal take on the idea. Everything I love about HERO!

Re: Help converting a couple of GURPS abilities to Hero OOOH! And a bonus to preventing an unwanted pregnancy for really low COM scores!

Re: I'm sensing something's wrong Of course; as noted, "YMMV." Like anything else, what appeals to some will not appeal to others. To praphrase, 'the game's the thing.' To be clear, I always accepted that they could be built as powers; I just feel that defining them as such has made 'Talents' as a class sort of pointless, and it's robbed a bit of the 'magic' of 'being talented.' For me, a least. Again, YMMV. heh heh heh heh-- I think we all like to do that. There must be something in the mindset of the sort of person attracted to HERO.... Tell you what: you ever get down around Vidallia Georgia, and you are more than welcome to sit in with us. I'm going to be looking for a new group anyway, as the move is two hours from here, and most of my regulars simply won't be able to do it. Or you can come on down to Savannah Georgia and take over as GM for one of the greatest groups I've ever had the privillege of running. Your call! Not around here, they haven't! Seriously, when we first got our copies of 5E, we didn't even have to discuss it:jawdrop:. The new shapeshift stuff went right out the window. Too many mechanics spoil the stew and all that. Cannon or not, it just wasn't for us. But for someone in your position-- sitting under an utterly inflexible Gm, then I guess I can understand why you might prefer the Talents as Powers constructs. But on the other side of the coin, doesn't that mean that _all_ the Talents would be off-limits? Why, I bet none of his NPCs were 'legal' that way! heh heh heh heh

Re: Help converting a couple of GURPS abilities to Hero Selective conception: lower the failure rate on 'The Pill' in your campaign, and hand them out for free. Kidding of course (sort of). Frankly, unless you are playing 'Mad Rapist HERO,' i'd just make this a two-pointer and be done with it.

Re: Bye all HAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAA! Oh, GREAT! I wonder how long it's going to take to clean _that_ out of the keyboard.......

Re: Help converting a couple of GURPS abilities to Hero Culture Adaptability: as suggested above, and possibly including Sociology or Anthropology skills as postive modifiers.

Re: Problem with creating a FH spell. hmmmmm let me see where i put that. nope. not there. not there either... damn it! i just know i've got wet noodle around here somewhere...... Shrike--- Understand; I had to run off to 3-D land myself, and so had to cut off my end of the discussion. Thanks for the explanation, but I have to say that it really didn't influence me any more in _this particular case_. That's critical for the spell that Marc was creating: this particular case. Let me get one thing out in the open: yes, you're way is more legal. That's why I thought NuSword had a good idea when he voiced it. And for most instances, it's probably the construct I would require, no question about it. The naked advantages construct, however, I feel more accurately captures the feel of what he wanted this one particular spell to be. It's like having a character who's "tough." Is that high natural defenses, damage resistance, or some wierd Desolid construct? Three ways for what is ultimately the same final result. But each has a different feel. I won't go into the points Marc made, first, because he made them far better than I could (no motivation beyond what I can learn from this thread, you see. I have no vested interest in which construct he chooses; I merely enjoy batting ideas around with the group), and partly because it is the 'feel' of the thing that I am interested in. What we've run up against, I think, is a matter of 'what will you handwave and what will you not?' The naked advantages require a handwave of accepting that UAA modifies the other advantages and not the power itself. Without "Simultaneous" on the UBO, then there is a handwave there as well. The 'Images v Images' construct requires the handwave that the mechanic of pasting one image over another is the same as controlling the first. While I have no troule with this as a build, it is intrinsically not the same. But I have learned one thing from this discussion, and for that I wish to whole-heartedly thank everyone who participated: There is no perfectly legal way to completely reproduce this spell in mechanic, essense, and feel in the HERO System. No matter what path we follow, it all comes down to a GM Fiat somewhere. Interesting. Eye-opening. A bit dissapointing. But more than I knew before. Thanks again, all of you.