A way to fend off attackers

[mallet]

A character in my fantasy hero game wants to build a power/ability and I am have trouble deciding how it should be built, so I am looking for any ideas people might have.

 

The character's primary weapon is a spear and he wants to have a power where if he spends his phase spinning and waving it about it about keeps an opponents from getting with in hand to hand distance of him. He doesn't attack while doing this, nor do any damage, it just keeps his enemies from getting close to him.

 

At first I thought this could be built as a barrier, but that doesn't seem correct, since it doesn't protect him against damage from ranged attacks, and it doesn't really have any PD/ED/BODY (although I guess the spear itself could stand in for the BODY of the barrier). Another thought was a form of Telekinesis to Grab or Push back opponents but that also doesn't seem correct. Then I thought about Mind Control (Only to Prevent Target(s) from Attacking him) but I am not sure. However it is built I think it should involve his opponent(s) having the chance to make an EGO or Presence roll to be able to overcome the "fear" of getting to close to him.

 

How would you guys build an ability like this?

[Lucius]

Re: A way to fend off attackers

 

One option: Naked Advantage, Autofire, on the spear, with a Limitation: Only for Suppression Fire.

 

Another: +xd6 to PRE attack, only to convince opponents to stand clear of the whirling weapon

 

And what's probably a pretty cheesy one: Change Environment, -1 to EGO roll, must make EGO roll to approach

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary points out that we should at least consider Damage Shield...

[Beast]

Re: A way to fend off attackers

 

build it as a damage shield TK that pushes foes back

I go with 25 to 30 str tk area 4m only to push away

[GoldenAge]

Re: A way to fend off attackers

 

Sounds like a Presence Attack to me.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: A way to fend off attackers

 

Not necessarily a Presence Attack, but definitely an indication that going inside the range of effect will hurt.

 

I might give the following a Presence Attack modifier of +2d6 (for Extremely violent action):

 

14 Ho! Haha! Guard! Turn! Parry! Dodge! Spin! Ha - THRUST!: Hand-To-Hand Attack +4d6, Hole In The Middle (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Area Of Effect (2" radius; +3/4), Continuous (+1) (70 Active Points); Hand-To-Hand Attack (-1/2), OIF (buck and a quarter staff (of opportunity); -1/2), STR Minimum 6-14 (8) (-1/2), Required Hands Two-Handed (-1/2), Concentration, Must Concentrate throughout use of Constant Power (1/2 DCV; -1/2), Requires A DEX Roll (No Active Point penalty to Skill Roll; -1/2), Restrainable (-1/2), Real Weapon (-1/4), Side Effects (Smacks himself in the face with staff; -1/4) - END=0

 

Anyone entering the character's hex will automatically get hit (unless the character misses the initial DEX roll).

The character can add up to +4 DC's with enough STR, CSL's or Martial Arts.

 

[Sean Waters]

Re: A way to fend off attackers

 

+5 DCV, Extra Time (Full Phase), Only v adjacent attacks?

 

It stops people in melee range launching effective attacks against him. Not always completely effective against incredibly skilled or lucky attackers but close enough for government work.

 

If you want to hurt people who try - or have a chance to, how about a 1d6 HKA 0 END, trigger (being attacked when using Spear Whirl)? Cheap, effective. Maybe even a naked trigger (and 0 END) advantage for your normal spear attack.

[Susano]

Re: A way to fend off attackers

 

I would define this as a limited form of PRE, Only To Intimidate (-1), Extra Time (Full Phase; -1/2), Costs END (-1/2), OIF (weapon of opportunity; -1/2). Basically by flourishing his weapon, the character is trying to intimidate his foes from closing with him. A common chambara and wuxia power, to be honest.

[Sean Waters]

Re: A way to fend off attackers

 

What does this do? It prevents attackers in melee range effectively attacking the character and it (possibly) deals damage to an attacker.

 

I don't like the idea of doing at as PRE attack because:

 

1. (most importantly) it means that you'll be doing a bunch of in-combat PRE attacks. PRE attacks involve working out how many dice you need to roll, rolling them and then working out the result. That is going to substantially increase the amount fo dice rolling in combat - especially if there is a damage shield/trigger component to this as well.

 

2. It doesn't make a lot of sense: whether someone is going to actually be intimidated by this is a function of combat experience, not bravery.

 

3. You need at least PRE+20 to get a target to hesitate for a full phase, and assuming we are dealing with opponents of a heroic nature with a PRE in the 13-15 range, that means you need at least 10 dice to have any reasonable chance of success, assuming your PRE is in teh same sort of ball park. So at elast +7d6. Bear in mind the likely modifiers too: In combat and At a disadvantage (well, you're not likely to go all defensive if you are about to win teh fight, are you?). That is probably it - I'd not allow 'violent action' as you are in combat and trying to ward off atatckers - so that is an additional 2 dice you'll need: so +9d6 (45 active points). You can reduce that with limtiations but you can reduce the other builds with limtiations and this one starts off expensive.

 

4. I don't like PRE attacks.

 

Like I say though, my main objection is that it is just too complicated a way to do something simple.

[Duke Bushido]

Re: A way to fend off attackers

 

While I like Sean's suggestion for its simplicity and its functionality,

 

I think I prefer Hyperman's build for its specificity: it _feels_ most like the original description.

 

However:

 

Will HM's build work against a group of opponents? Say SpearBoy was whirling his spear overhead when on Segment 3 he's bum rushed by five opponents from five directions.

 

Will this build allow him to hit all five guys? Or will he need some sort of Persistent?

 

Personally, I think that the AOE is a solid foundation for the build; I'm just not certain that, with the HTH base (an Instant power) that it will achieve the results when SpearBoy doesn't have an attack action.

 

For example, on Segment 3, SpearBoy announces he's going into "defensive spin" while attempting to maneuver himself to a better position.

 

If Spearboy doesn't have a Phase on Segment 4, doesn't the default of an HTH build mean that he's not able to use it against a fresh target/ target area until his next action?

 

I think adding either "Persistent" or "Trigger" would make HM's build spot-on, feel-wise.

[Beast]

Re: A way to fend off attackers

 

a pre attack will work for a little while but each time it is used it goes down in effectiveness

 

below I built a damage shield with a 25 str so it can keep about normal men at bay

and allows Speaboy to be stabby with his spear

 

 

gimmie some room: Telekinesis (25 STR), Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4), Area Of Effect (4m Surface; +1/2), Trigger (Activating the Trigger is an Action that takes no time, Trigger resets automatically, immediately after it activates; +1) (107 Active Points); Limited Power Power loses about half of its effectiveness (can only shove others away; -1), No Range (-1/2)real cost 43 pts

[Sean Waters]

Re: A way to fend off attackers

 

This would be my offering for the damage part of the ability:

 

Spear Whirl: Killing Attack - Hand-To-Hand 1d6 (2d6 w/STR), Trigger (Activating the Trigger is an Action that takes no time, Trigger resets automatically, immediately after it activates; +1 - anyone approaching within the reach of the weapon) (30 Active Points); OAF (-1), Lockout (Can not use weapon for anything else; -1/2), Limited Power Power loses about a third of its effectiveness (Cannot move whilst using Spear Whirl; -1/2) 30 Active 10 Real 3 END

 

This could be used in addition to the extra DCV: it is not AoE so it can be blocked or simply avoided if your own DCV is high enough, which seems realistic and it is built with OAF because a brave soul COULD grab the spear off you in combat (Hyper-Man's build uses OIF plus Restrainable to similar effect). You could add in all the normal 'real weapon/STR min/etc' lims if you wanted to to bring the cost down more.

[Beast]

Re: A way to fend off attackers

 

that could work quite well

might add visible so foes could see the danger zone

someone with a shield could do a feint to draw the attack into the shield as a grab to have it impale the spear in the shield there by stopping it and then attack the spear haft ot Spearboy himself(if they have the reach)

just dropping the shield with the spear still impaled on it would make it useless till removed(the pilum was used in this way to render shields useless

 

This would be my offering for the damage part of the ability:

 

Spear Whirl: Killing Attack - Hand-To-Hand 1d6 (2d6 w/STR), Trigger (Activating the Trigger is an Action that takes no time, Trigger resets automatically, immediately after it activates; +1 - anyone approaching within the reach of the weapon) (30 Active Points); OAF (-1), Lockout (Can not use weapon for anything else; -1/2), Limited Power Power loses about a third of its effectiveness (Cannot move whilst using Spear Whirl; -1/2) 30 Active 10 Real 3 END

 

This could be used in addition to the extra DCV: it is not AoE so it can be blocked or simply avoided if your own DCV is high enough, which seems realistic and it is built with OAF because a brave soul COULD grab the spear off you in combat (Hyper-Man's build uses OIF plus Restrainable to similar effect). You could add in all the normal 'real weapon/STR min/etc' lims if you wanted to to bring the cost down more.

[Duke Bushido]

Re: A way to fend off attackers

 

Yep; gotta give it to Sean for the final call:

 

the Trigger justifies the "off phase" utility.

[Fearghus]

Re: A way to fend off attackers

 

I have not read all the other responses yet. I like the idea of a presence attack, but I think that you really want this to cause damage IF they come within melee range. so I immediately thought of a HKA attack Constant with a 1" Radius and personal immunity or hole in the middle.(I don't have 6E yet so if the terms change and I got them wrong I'm sorry.)

 

Basically just an attack that says... "Come at me at your own peril" If they stand clear of the attack they are fine if then enter they take damage.

[Fearghus]

Re: A way to fend off attackers

 

This would be my offering for the damage part of the ability:

 

Spear Whirl: Killing Attack - Hand-To-Hand 1d6 (2d6 w/STR), Trigger (Activating the Trigger is an Action that takes no time, Trigger resets automatically, immediately after it activates; +1 - anyone approaching within the reach of the weapon) (30 Active Points); OAF (-1), Lockout (Can not use weapon for anything else; -1/2), Limited Power Power loses about a third of its effectiveness (Cannot move whilst using Spear Whirl; -1/2) 30 Active 10 Real 3 END.

 

As usual an excellent build Sean. I like the trigger option better than my AOE as well.

[SirViss]

Re: A way to fend off attackers

 

I would like for mallet to to reply about all the suggestion that have been made, but this is my take on the original subject of the thread.

 

I like the triggered effect that Sean has suggested. Fearghus suggestion for an area effect attack (with hole in the middle) also has its merit. The choice would be dependent on how the player wants to model and what the GM would be willing to let the player get away with. The only question I have is because of what was written originally:

 

...

The character's primary weapon is a spear and he wants to have a power where if he spends his phase spinning and waving it about it about keeps an opponents from getting with in hand to hand distance of him. He doesn't attack while doing this, nor do any damage, it just keeps his enemies from getting close to him.

...

 

So, originally "doesn't attack and no damage" precludes those suggested builds. Still, considering the character is spinning a spear fast enough to cause fear might mean that he could actually hit an opponent if he came that close, so he may change his mind and adopt one of these.

 

Personally, I'm partial to the triggered attack suggestion. The next thing though is that it is, in effect, supposed to be a threat. The attack options suggested leave it to the GM if he thinks the opponents would dare enter that "whirlwind of death" to attack the spear "wielding maniac".

 

If you wish to remove that decision from the GM, I would use a suggestion the Lucius called "cheesy". I would link a Change Environment (with the appropriate area of effect) -X to Ego (or PRE) roll (depending how threatening you want it to be), must make Ego (or PRE) Roll to approach. This would have the effect to intimidate opponents that might have high defenses (DCV or DEF) but low Ego or PRE.

 

Anyway, I am not giving an actual build with point as I don't have the 6ed yet (soon though ).

[Daltwisney]

Re: A way to fend off attackers

 

Actually, paraphrasing the original post, it 'prevents the enemies from approaching him'. Sounds a lot like Barrier to me.

[Doc Democracy]

Re: A way to fend off attackers

 

What about a naked advantage to add autofire (only for suppression around the attacker)?

[Susano]

Re: A way to fend off attackers

 

What about a naked advantage to add autofire (only for suppression around the attacker)?

 

Or a Naked Advantage for Area of Effect, Constant.

[Susano]

Re: A way to fend off attackers

 

Actually' date=' paraphrasing the original post, it 'prevents the enemies from approaching him'. Sounds a lot like Barrier to me.[/quote']

 

One problem I have is 'prevents the enemies from approaching him' is kind of vague. Physically repels? Intimidates them? Simply makes it dangerous to be near? There are a lot of ways to do this. Barrier (IMO) works on a pure semantics note (it does prevent approach) but breaks down (IMO) in an sfx approach.

[BNakagawa]

Re: A way to fend off attackers

 

Expanding on Sean's first take, I had used something similar to model a fighter that trained with spears and polearms to maximize the advantage of reach over most hth combatants.

 

I think the build was expressed as a number of DCV levels bought with the limitations (does not affect ranged attacks) (only vs targets with shorter reach weapons) and (negated once opponent with shorter weapon scored a hit)

 

The levels could only be reset if you backed out and scored a hit vs an opponent, thus re-establishing your reach advantage.

 

It was an abstract-ish approach but it got the job done. The nemesis for this fighting style turned out to be superhumanly quick knife fighters with multiple PSLs vs reach advantage that were experts at breaching phalanxes and cutting them to ribbons...

[Sean Waters]

Re: A way to fend off attackers

 

Actually' date=' paraphrasing the original post, it 'prevents the enemies from approaching him'. Sounds a lot like Barrier to me.[/quote']

 

Trouble with a barrier is you hit it and it breaks, and you take no damage. It prevents approach but I do not think it fulfils the sfx criteria of the concept. You could make it a barrier with a damage shield, I suppose.

 

EDIT...as Susano said

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: A way to fend off attackers

 

Dodge - full phase, harder to hit

 

Cover - "attack" a location - anyone who enters that location is hit

 

Cover with Spread/Autofire/Sweep

[Susano]

Re: A way to fend off attackers

 

Dodge - full phase, harder to hit

 

Cover - "attack" a location - anyone who enters that location is hit

 

Cover with Spread/Autofire/Sweep

 

A Constant AOE will do the same thing and with better results.

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: A way to fend off attackers

 

A Constant AOE will do the same thing and with better results.

But it seems more like a maneuver than a power. And maneuvers are free. But yes, if you pay more, you should be entitled to better results.