Superheroing in the V'hanian Empire

[AlgaeNymph]

When not in their mandatory -- and very well-compensated -- two decades of military service the superbeings of the V'hanian Empire engage in the standard superheroics.  However, the Empire takes very good care of its people.  (Except rebels, but the living standards raise the question of why anyone would rebel.)  So what's there to do?

[Sundog]

Well, there are supposedly rebels, so stopping terror attacks comes to mind. Plus, there would be natural disasters, accidents and problems to be solved, and given the V'Hanian tech level, supers could easily be planetary-wide operatives.

 

[steriaca]

Beyond that there is just simply showing up and being celebrities. Anyone watch Powers?

[Lord Liaden]

V'han's rule is not omniscient or omnipotent -- the very existence of the persistent rebel groups described in BOTE proves that. The Book also outlines crime in the Empire, including several very powerful and widespread organized criminal groups. In addition, the Empire faces external threats from V'han's rivals, Skarn and Tyrannon; and you could also probably add to that list the temporal tyrant Korrex the Conqueror (see Golden Age Champions).

 

BTW as to why anyone would rebel: material benefits aren't the only things many people desire. Freedom of thought and expression, self-determination, matter a great deal to some. In a way, material benefits can be the enemy of order and conformity. When people don't have to focus on survival, they have the luxury to think about other things.

[assault]

Fight their evil counterparts from other dimensions.

[Lord Liaden]

Or their good counterparts, depending on what ethical dimensions you and your group would like to explore.

[L. Marcus]

The dimension where even the babies sport goatees.

[Tjack]

In what ways would this differ from a Legion of Superheroes or Imperial Guard (same thing) type campaign?

[AlgaeNymph]

7 hours ago, Tjack said:

In what ways would this differ from a Legion of Superheroes or Imperial Guard (same thing) type campaign?

In that I'm talking about scenarios outside of military service.

[Tjack]

While the IG were definitely part of the military, the LSH were deputized by the Science Police. The SP operated like a cross between U.N.T.I.L. and Starfleet.  All depending on the writer and whether it was the Silver or Bronze Age.

34 minutes ago, AlgaeNymph said:

In that I'm talking about scenarios outside of military service.

 

[AlgaeNymph]

Oh, now I know what I want to bring up.

Say you have a science hero(ine) who wants to reform and uplift society...except that's kind of the Empire's job.  Are they relegated to face-punching?  Or, as is my guess, are they subsumed into the government and they get to do what they wanted to anyway?  But then where would they do it?  Newly annexed worlds?  But then where's the challenge when there's government backing?

[Lord Liaden]

If you believe there's no challenge in a government-backed project, I'm guessing you never worked for the government.

[AlgaeNymph]

3 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

If you believe there's no challenge in a government-backed project, I'm guessing you never worked for the government.

 

I...haven't  Can you elaborate?  Particularly in this thread's context?

[steriaca]

2 hours ago, AlgaeNymph said:

 

I...haven't  Can you elaborate?  Particularly in this thread's context?

The government always changing their collective minds about a project, I'm guessing. 

[Steve]

8 hours ago, AlgaeNymph said:

Oh, now I know what I want to bring up.

Say you have a science hero(ine) who wants to reform and uplift society...except that's kind of the Empire's job.  Are they relegated to face-punching?  Or, as is my guess, are they subsumed into the government and they get to do what they wanted to anyway?  But then where would they do it?  Newly annexed worlds?  But then where's the challenge when there's government backing?

Where’s the challenge?

Well, there are all those rebels out there who unimaginably dislike V’han’s New World Order being imposed on their society. Welcome to V’han’s version of the SS, only your conscience won’t bother you very much because you are bettering society. Really.

 

But what if your enlightened reforms run up against V’han’s rules? Congratulations! You’re now a traitorous rebel, and one of V’han’s jackbooted minions will be along to teach you the error of your ways any minute now. Perhaps some telepathic reconditioning of your errant neurons will bring you back into the fold, comrade.

[Lord Liaden]

13 hours ago, AlgaeNymph said:

 

I...haven't  Can you elaborate?  Particularly in this thread's context?

 

Okay, I'll admit there was sarcasm in my comment.   But to address the point seriously... government practically speaking is bureaucracy. That's your oversight, who you have to answer to. It has its own priorities, regulations, ways of doing things, to which you're expected to conform. It has its local representatives, with whom you may or may not agree or get along. It reacts and adapts to changing situations notoriously slowly. And as steriaca says, directives from above, or the personnel in charge of your activities, can change without warning.

 

And all of that applies even if the government isn't corrupt. Yes, V'han's administration is infamously tough on corruption, but it wouldn't have to be if that didn't exist. BOTE outlines several major criminal organizations within the Empire, and those couldn't thrive if they couldn't subvert local authorities.

 

You also asked about newly annexed worlds. The process of "pacification" of conquered territories is ongoing, usually taking years at least. And there are always newly annexed worlds, many of them. V'han is constantly expanding her reach. As for a science-oriented hero, several of the dimensions described in the book have mysteries or special challenges or new technologies which call for scientific investigation. That investigation might unleash something in turn requiring heroic intervention.

[Lord Liaden]

10 hours ago, Steve said:

Where’s the challenge?

Well, there are all those rebels out there who unimaginably dislike V’han’s New World Order being imposed on their society. Welcome to V’han’s version of the SS, only your conscience won’t bother you very much because you are bettering society. Really.

 

But what if your enlightened reforms run up against V’han’s rules? Congratulations! You’re now a traitorous rebel, and one of V’han’s jackbooted minions will be along to teach you the error of your ways any minute now. Perhaps some telepathic reconditioning of your errant neurons will bring you back into the fold, comrade.

 

I can tell Steve was laying on the sarcasm more heavily than I did, but what he's describing is essentially what BOTE outlines. V'han's rule very much uses the carrot-and-stick approach. If you conform to her policies life is usually good, but criticism or protest is censured fast and hard, and actual defiance is ruthlessly crushed, up to and including lethality. And if you're part of her administration, particularly a member of her Imperial Battalion, you may be called upon to do the crushing.

[Tjack]

11 hours ago, Steve said:

Where’s the challenge?

Well, there are all those rebels out there who unimaginably dislike V’han’s New World Order being imposed on their society. Welcome to V’han’s version of the SS, only your conscience won’t bother you very much because you are bettering society. Really.

 

But what if your enlightened reforms run up against V’han’s rules? Congratulations! You’re now a traitorous rebel, and one of V’han’s jackbooted minions will be along to teach you the error of your ways any minute now. Perhaps some telepathic reconditioning of your errant neurons will bring you back into the fold, comrade.

   Wow, what comic books are you reading?  I can get behind a less sunny take on things.  More of a shades of gray style like in Marvel’s Imperial Guard or the run of Alien Legion, but what you’ve just described is more of a Villians campaign and I’ve never enjoyed those.  If that’s what you want to run, and you have players willing to give it a go then best of luck to you.

[Steve]

3 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

 

I can tell Steve was laying on the sarcasm more heavily than I did, but what he's describing is essentially what BOTE outlines. V'han's rule very much uses the carrot-and-stick approach. If you conform to her policies life is usually good, but criticism or protest is censured fast and hard, and actual defiance is ruthlessly crushed, up to and including lethality. And if you're part of her administration, particularly a member of her Imperial Battalion, you may be called upon to do the crushing.

Yes, I was being sarcastic, and it apparently hurt the feelings of the downvoter on that comment. The ugly truth is that V’Han does not tolerate dissent from her rule and her vision for how her empire is run, so the choices for a “reformer” are pretty stark.

 

Either you support her, or you are against her.

 

If you support her reforms for conquered worlds, part of your job is going to be crushing any dissent. If you are a true believer in her mission, then that crushing will be carried out with the consent of your conscience, that you believe supporting her is for the greater good. Freedom of choice will just need to be eradicated to bring that about. So long as people have a job, a full belly and medical care, what matters the loss of their freedom?

 

But if your desired reforms go against her plans, the full might of her empire will fall upon you.

 

That’s the stark choice: support a tyrant or be crushed. So, which sort of reformer do you want to be?

[Steve]

2 hours ago, Tjack said:

   Wow, what comic books are you reading?  I can get behind a less sunny take on things.  More of a shades of gray style like in Marvel’s Imperial Guard or the run of Alien Legion, but what you’ve just described is more of a Villians campaign and I’ve never enjoyed those.  If that’s what you want to run, and you have players willing to give it a go then best of luck to you.

If you believe V’Han to be a heroine, a shining light bringing about her benevolent rule over the masses who will just get into trouble if they make their own choices, then her foes can be easily portrayed as criminals by her supporters. Either misguided and just needing of re-education or genuinely evil and so should be eradicated.

 

If you work for her, you’re part of a candy-coated version of the SS, eagerly rooting out all subversives to her rule. If you don’t, you’re not part of the grand society she is building and are instead a potential threat to it.

[Lord Liaden]

3 hours ago, Tjack said:

   Wow, what comic books are you reading?  I can get behind a less sunny take on things.  More of a shades of gray style like in Marvel’s Imperial Guard or the run of Alien Legion, but what you’ve just described is more of a Villians campaign and I’ve never enjoyed those.  If that’s what you want to run, and you have players willing to give it a go then best of luck to you.

 

Istvatha V'han was designed to present those shades of grey to PCs, to present them with moral dilemmas. But grey is made up of black and white, and both are part of Istvatha's package. She has unquestionably brought a lot of good to a great many people, and opposing those who, for whatever means-justifying end, would cause people in her empire suffering and grief, would be the work of a true hero. You could run a campaign in the Empire on that basis if you wish, and never have to present your PCs with hard choices. However, what Steve was describing is why there are rebellions against V'han, and a campaign could be run from the rebel viewpoint. But heroes who serve her might never have seen the worst excesses of her rule, or have accepted propaganda rationalizations for it, and therefore oppose the rebels as criminals. There are more than enough examples of such regimes in history, up to the present day

 

As an example of the white from BOTE, on an alternate Earth the Nazis won WW II, then went on the conquer the whole planet. Aryan-looking people held all the power and privileges, while other ethnicities were subject to the oppression one would expect. Then V'han conquered that Earth. She usually allows local governments a lot of leeway to continue their function as long as they follow her general directives, but she absolutely will not stand for institutionalized racism. She rescinded the Nazis' racist policies and granted all the peoples of that world full citizenship and rights in her empire.

 

Now for an example of the black, on one world she conquered, there was a region where the populace was divided along religious lines, and had been warring over that issue for generations. Despite all attempts at negotiation or enforcement, V'han could not get the factions to stop fighting each other. So she completely exterminated both groups, then opened their region to resettlement from elsewhere in the Empire.

[Tjack]

4 hours ago, Steve said:

If you believe V’Han to be a heroine, a shining light bringing about her benevolent rule over the masses who will just get into trouble if they make their own choices, then her foes can be easily portrayed as criminals by her supporters. Either misguided and just needing of re-education or genuinely evil and so should be eradicated.

 

If you work for her, you’re part of a candy-coated version of the SS, eagerly rooting out all subversives to her rule. If you don’t, you’re not part of the grand society she is building and are instead a potential threat to it.

    I’d never heard of V’han before this thread. I’ve been speaking generally about Superheroing in a Sci-Fi setting.  But if this Empire is so Evil, why would you want to set a campaign there?   It seems to me like pitching a campaign to your players where they’re heroes in Germany in the ‘30’s.  It might be an interesting comic or novel but I wouldn’t want to spend my Saturday nights there.

[Lord Liaden]

Because the Empire is not unequivocally Evil. Istvatha V'han genuinely wants to govern well and improve the lot of all her subjects. In most of the dimensions she's conquered, the quality of life has markedly improved for their inhabitants. Taxation is not onerous, justice is administered even-handedly, war is abolished, crime and corruption are vigorously rooted out. The benefits of advanced technology are shared with all in education, medical care, communication, transportation. The opportunities for increased trade with other dimensions in the Empire bolster conquered worlds' economies, and V'han makes sure the profits are spread around equitably. The vast majority of the Empire's citizens approve of and support her rule, and in time most conquered worlds come around to that viewpoint. Istvatha herself is ageless, with the power to move herself across time and dimensions; so she has plenty of patience.

[AlgaeNymph]

12 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

As an example of the white from BOTE, on an alternate Earth the Nazis won WW II, then went on the conquer the whole planet. Aryan-looking people held all the power and privileges, while other ethnicities were subject to the oppression one would expect. Then V'han conquered that Earth. She usually allows local governments a lot of leeway to continue their function as long as they follow her general directives, but she absolutely will not stand for institutionalized racism. She rescinded the Nazis' racist policies and granted all the peoples of that world full citizenship and rights in her empire.

 

Which is why a better comparison for the V'hanian Empire is Achaemenid Persia, which also respected local cultures and prohibited slavery.  (Or possibly the United States at its more heavy handed...)  This segues well to my next point.

 

12 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

Now for an example of the black, on one world she conquered, there was a region where the populace was divided along religious lines, and had been warring over that issue for generations. Despite all attempts at negotiation or enforcement, V'han could not get the factions to stop fighting each other. So she completely exterminated both groups, then opened their region to resettlement from elsewhere in the Empire.

 

The sad thing is that for some people, freedom and self-determination means maintaining privilege at the expense of others.  We like to depict rebel groups in fiction as akin to the Returners, but they're much more likely to be akin to the Spartans: a toxic culture with good publicity.  (There's a reason I keep linking to this video.)

 

 

And now back to the topic at hand:

17 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

[G]overnment practically speaking is bureaucracy. That's your oversight, who you have to answer to. It has its own priorities, regulations, ways of doing things, to which you're expected to conform. It has its local representatives, with whom you may or may not agree or get along. It reacts and adapts to changing situations notoriously slowly. And as steriaca says, directives from above, or the personnel in charge of your activities, can change without warning.

 

Thank you muchly.  : )

I'd also like to add an explanation my sweetheart gave me:

"You may have all the funding the empress can throw at you, but money isn't the solution. Imagine it like this- you play Skyrim, and have a hack for infinite Magicka.  You still need to go about casting spells for that infinite Magicka to do any good. Money is only valuable for what you can do with it, and even if it seems like there's plenty, there's always gonna be somewhere and someone else who wants it, for you to compete with."

[Steve]

10 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

Because the Empire is not unequivocally Evil. Istvatha V'han genuinely wants to govern well and improve the lot of all her subjects. In most of the dimensions she's conquered, the quality of life has markedly improved for their inhabitants. Taxation is not onerous, justice is administered even-handedly, war is abolished, crime and corruption are vigorously rooted out. The benefits of advanced technology are shared with all in education, medical care, communication, transportation. The opportunities for increased trade with other dimensions in the Empire bolster conquered worlds' economies, and V'han makes sure the profits are spread around equitably. The vast majority of the Empire's citizens approve of and support her rule, and in time most conquered worlds come around to that viewpoint. Istvatha herself is ageless, with the power to move herself across time and dimensions; so she has plenty of patience.

The problem with her view of things is that she won’t take a polite ‘no’ for an answer. No matter how benevolent her rule seems on the surface, it is imposed on those outside her empire by force, gradually expanding its boundaries by force whenever diplomacy fails.

A society of nazis was mentioned in another post. Consider a version of earth peopled by benevolent societies that have no interest in joining her empire, mostly out of a strong belief in individual liberty and that kings and queens are a bad idea, but they are also charitable sorts who love their families and don’t hurt or steal from each other.
 

V’han’s emissaries arrive and ask them to join her regime. They consider the offer and say no.

 

That’s not going to be the end of it. If various offers of carrots still don’t get them to join, the stick then comes out. After the conquest of this peaceful people who just didn’t want any part of her empire, and potentially millions of dead, they are now unwillingly made part of that empire they didn’t want to join in the first place.

 

Their children are then indoctrinated to be loyal followers of V’han, convincing them over time that their parent’s society was a flawed concept because they didn’t appreciate what glorious things they were being offered. After a few generations, the troubling parts of that society are excised. Their quaint local customs and the aspects of their culture that don’t threaten the maintenance of V’han’s rule over them are left alone. They’ve been sanitized.

 

To those who support V’Han, it’s all for the greater good. Yes, HER view of what that is.

 

In addition to those who have pledged themselves to her cause, fervent believers in her grand vision for the multiverse, she also has fembot clones of herself that act as her viceroys throughout her ever-expanding realm. They act as her emissaries and overseers.
 

Doctor Doom does much the same thing in Latveria, I hear. He just doesn’t have the good publicity that V’Han enjoys.

 

But it’s all okay because everyone who obeys her and her minions enjoys a pretty nice life, the trains run on time, and there’s a good economy with plenty of wealth made in trading.
 

They just aren’t free, and they can’t ever leave her empire and strike out on their own.