2022-23 NFL Thread

[Old Man]

Inconceivable!

[Pariah]

I just don't have the words anymore. It's beyond embarrassing, beyond frustrating, beyond disappointing, beyond exhausting. So many unmet expectations, so many stupid mistakes that didn't need to happen. The final result is one more agonizing loss, in a season marked by an unending series of agonizing losses.

 

And we still have to play the Chiefs. Twice.

 

And to top it off, now we've lost twice to the guy who was responsible for the Broncos the last time they were this bad.

 

I don't ... I don't even know what to say.

[unclevlad]

13 minutes ago, Pariah said:

I don't ... I don't even know what to say.

 

 

How about FIRE HACKETT!!!!

 

Seriously, while I didn't see any of it, there IS a limit.  The offense is less than incompetent...and ok, to a point it's been a combination of things, but when it's gone on THIS LONG, I have to start with Bad Coaching.  

 

And IMO, this coaching job is far worse than even 2010.  This Bronco defense is REALLY good.  They're #3 in points allowed per game...by less than half a point a game.  But they're still -24 on point differential...the only team in the top 14 in points allowed that's in the negatives.  The 2010 team...that was Tebow's rookie year.  What did anyone expect?  IIRC, those last few years under Shanahan, ok, they had a .500 record, but they weren't even that good.  I remember a lot of good starts then complete fades.  This defense should ensure at least .500, so what this coaching staff has done to this offense is a travesty.

[Old Man]

56 minutes ago, Pariah said:

I just don't have the words anymore. It's beyond embarrassing, beyond frustrating, beyond disappointing, beyond exhausting. So many unmet expectations, so many stupid mistakes that didn't need to happen. The final result is one more agonizing loss, in a season marked by an unending series of agonizing losses.

 

And we still have to play the Chiefs. Twice.

 

And to top it off, now we've lost twice to the guy who was responsible for the Broncos the last time they were this bad.

 

I don't ... I don't even know what to say.

 

Sorry man.  My team can't even succeed at losing.

[unclevlad]

Speaking of boneheaded plays...just now.  Chargers score TD to take a 17-13 lead.  They get a personal foul penalty, advancing the ball.  High, pop-up style kick that's angled...too much, actually.  BUT the Chiefs return guy oh so carefully positions his feet inbounds, then catches it...lunging, and takes himself OB.  After catching it inbounds.  At the 6.  

 

Ball was going OB almost regardless...but it's that reflexive, braindead "oh I gotta catch this" and that "oh I gotta keep inbounds or the catch doesn't count."  

 

<SIGH>  And you see things like this ALL the time.  Young athletes are trained to NOT think situationally.

 

And another one just now.  DB hits Herbert when he's OB.  Don't look where you are, don't think...just hit.  Granted, the hit wasn't hard, but the DB utterly lost track of where he was.  15 yards, and the Chargers are poised for another TD.

 

 

[unclevlad]

Well, that more or less clinches the AFC West.  Broncos and Raiders are trash, of course, and no factor.  Chiefs are now 3 up AND have swept the Chargers, with only 7 games left.  

[unclevlad]

18 hours ago, Pariah said:

In their 10th game of the season, the Denver Broncos scored a touchdown on their opening drive for the first time this year. They've now added a field goal and hold a double-digit lead, which I'm not sure they've done at any point this year either.

 

Some interesting news this morning, as it was revealed that Broncos head coach Nathaniel Hackett has turned play calling duties over to quarterbacks coach Klint Kubiak. I find it interesting that Kubiak is calling the plays, and not Offensive Coordinator Justin Outten.

 

Which leads me to wonder ... if Kubiak is calling the plays and Jerry Rosberg is managing the game from the booth, what exactly is Hackett doing again?

 

Seems some others think the same.

 

https://www.milehighreport.com/2022/11/21/23470689/the-2022-denver-broncos-have-an-accountability-problem

 

They also push for firing Hackett now.  There is no reason to wait.

 

More of the same...

 

https://www.denverpost.com/2022/11/20/broncos-fire-nathaniel-hackett-ejiro-eviro-russell-wilson-raiders-mark-kiszla-column/

 

They have winnable games ahead...ok, not Baltimore or KC, and probably not the Chargers, but the other 3 are Rams, Cards, and Panthers.  They've favored against Carolina Sunday, which tells you a lot about Carolina.  (But were I to bet, I'd take Carolina and the points, unless Hackett is fired.  I simply can't see the situation improving as long as he's still coach.  Carolina is at home, too.)  They can try to start righting the ship in those games, but that can't happen with Hackett...I wanted to type "in charge" but realized...of what?  As the nominal head coach, then.  DARN sure lame duck, too.  Odds he's the Denver coach when training camp opens next year?  1000 to 1 or so...?

[Pariah]

The Toronto Argonauts blocked the potential game-winning field goal by the Winnipeg Blue Bombers to win last night's Grey Cup. The loss denied the Bombers their third consecutive Grey Cup. 

 

‘We have this forever.’ The Argos are Grey Cup champions after a wild night in Regina

 

Of course, I was rooting for Winnipeg. Even in the CFL, my team can't catch a break. 

 

Strangely enough, Chad Kelly (originally drafted as Mr. Irrelevant by the Broncos in 2017) came in as Toronto's backup and led them to the win. Russell Wilson can't get a win, but Chad Kelly can.

[death tribble]

Ow !

[Logan D. Hurricanes]

 

[Old Man]

The Broncos have waived Melvin Gordon.  He might have been a problem, but he wasn't the problem.

[Pariah]

No, but between his little tantrum a couple of weeks ago (which Hackett completely botched by coddling him) and two goal line fumbles that changed the course of the first and most recent games of the season, Gordon was the most obvious scapegoat. 

 

George Paton carries some of the blame for this by keeping Gordon through the trade deadline. Surely someone would've been willing to part with a 7th round pick for him.

 

In any case, the Broncos are doing him a favor by letting him go to a better team — which, statistically speaking, could be pretty much anybody.

[slikmar]

When the punt was returned with 5 seconds left in the jets/patriots, all I could think was "What a very Jests way of losing". I mean, with 5 seconds left, why are you punting the ball anywhere near a return man?

[unclevlad]

3 hours ago, slikmar said:

When the punt was returned with 5 seconds left in the jets/patriots, all I could think was "What a very Jests way of losing". I mean, with 5 seconds left, why are you punting the ball anywhere near a return man?

 

It was about 20 seconds when it was kicked, and he did return it from his own 16.  You have a point, but I leaning more to BOTCHED coverage.  Perhaps coverage aiming to completely pin them back, rather than contain.  Or, also plausible, someone on the coverage team decided to be the hero, and left a honkin big, exploitable gap in the coverage.

[unclevlad]

The nice thing about this week is, there's LOTS of college basketball.  Methinks the Niners will cover the spread with...exceptional ease, so, let's see if there's anything else out there at this (moderately) late hour....

 

Oh, it's only 31-10 as the 3rd is about to end, so my prediction is, well, worthy of Captain Obvious.  Oh well...

[unclevlad]

Anyone think Kingsbury is going to get axed?  

 

Not just for this.  His style's been questioned quite a bit, running the offense on 4th down plays too much, for example.  And if you remove the 7-0 start last season (which was squandered away)...he's 21-31-1, and 5-13 starting from the stretch-run collapse last year through last night.  They're 2 1/2 back of Seattle, and even 2 back of Washington, with only 6 games left.

[Pariah]

Analysis: Russell Wilson trade looks like Herschel Walker's

 

...except that Herschel Walker was productive for a few years in Minnesota.

 

From the article:

Quote

 

Fans are starting to wonder if it's Wilson who isn't good enough anymore because the Broncos have lost six games by one score and are negating Denver's dominant defense by averaging just 14.7 points.

 

They'd be an NFL-best 9-1 right now if only they averaged in regulation the 19.7 points per game they did last year with Teddy Bridgewater and Drew Lock at quarterback.

 

Or the 20.2 they averaged the year before that when Lock led the league with 15 interceptions.

 

Or the 20.6 they averaged with Case Keenum in 2018.

 

Or the 19.3 they averaged in 2016 with Trevor Siemian, same as they averaged in 2011 with Tim Tebow.

 

 

We can only hope Wilson is a better Congressional candidate when his time comes. 

[Cancer]

I am coming to think that Wilson is not good at picking up new offensive systems, as well as having lost a step with age, which is a really big deal when a lot of his success has been to scramble around and eventually throw deep to a wideout who has worked himself clear.  Carroll's offense when Wilson got to Seattle was based on Marshawn Lynch, and there are some analysts here who suggest that this allowed Carroll to slowly morph the offense to suit Wilson and his abilities as Lynch aged out.  A number of Seattle players and former players have said that Wilson's hand signs and audibles are those he used in Seattle, and not from what new system he was supposed to be picking up in Denver.

[Pariah]

To show their gratitude for the Detroit Lions' hospitality this past Sunday, the Buffalo Bills have donated $20,000 to the Lions charity foundation (and encouraged their fans to donate, too). They also sent breakfast from Tim Horton's. 

[unclevlad]

....but if they reallllly want to be nice, they'll send the Lions a win on Thursday....

 

<cue creepy conspiracy music here>

 

At the time of the trade for Wilson, I thought it was a bad move.  2 firsts and 2 seconds is notably more than the Ricky Williams trade.  Now, OK, trading for a Pro Bowl QB is different from a running back, but I still maintain it compromises your team's chances by killing your depth.  PLUS, I'm not a fan of the obscene contracts like Wilson or Rodgers.  That's disruptive.  Seattle decided to reboot...not only save that cap space, but get lots of potential assets.  Teams have survived *one* of the problems...but sacrificing the assets AND being forced into a millstone contract?  Awful.

[Old Man]

7 hours ago, unclevlad said:

Anyone think Kingsbury is going to get axed? 

 

I hope so, the man has been holding a highly talented team back for 2-3 seasons now with his predictable playcalling.

[Pariah]

3 minutes ago, Old Man said:

I hope so, the man has been holding a highly talented team back for 2-3 seasons now with his predictable playcalling.

 

This sounds oddly familiar ... except for the "highly talented" part, maybe ... 

[Old Man]

3 minutes ago, Pariah said:

 

This sounds oddly familiar ... except for the "highly talented" part, maybe ... 

 

The Broncos have a top 5 defense, excellent receivers, at least average talent at RB, and above average run blocking.  They also have a question mark at QB and atrocious pass pro.

[Cancer]

2 hours ago, unclevlad said:

...

 

At the time of the trade for Wilson, I thought it was a bad move.  2 firsts and 2 seconds is notably more than the Ricky Williams trade.  Now, OK, trading for a Pro Bowl QB is different from a running back, but I still maintain it compromises your team's chances by killing your depth.  ...   Seattle decided to reboot...not only save that cap space, but get lots of potential assets.  Teams have survived *one* of the problems...but sacrificing the assets AND being forced into a millstone contract?  Awful.

 

Last offseason it was becoming clear that the Seahawks could afford to keep Wilson, *or* have an adequate supporting cast around him.  The GM/HC combo remembered, it seems, that their SB runs were with a solid supporting cast, and getting lucky on a rookie QB in his rookie contract, and decided to try to do the same thing again.  I can't imagine that anyone thought Smith would do as well as he has, and we'll see what the team makes of the draftpick bonanza they got for Wilson, but it looks like they are going to try to play that ten-year-old tape again.

[unclevlad]

13 minutes ago, Cancer said:

 

Last offseason it was becoming clear that the Seahawks could afford to keep Wilson, *or* have an adequate supporting cast around him.  The GM/HC combo remembered, it seems, that their SB runs were with a solid supporting cast, and getting lucky on a rookie QB in his rookie contract, and decided to try to do the same thing again.  I can't imagine that anyone thought Smith would do as well as he has, and we'll see what the team makes of the draftpick bonanza they got for Wilson, but it looks like they are going to try to play that ten-year-old tape again.

 

It takes the whole team.  Montana, Rice, and Taylor won titles with a good running game to support them...and lost to the Cowboys when it wasn't quite there.  Cowboys of that period...Moose Johnston was huge for them.  Manning came to a Bronco team for nothing...and needed a running game and excellent defense.  

 

Flip side:  'star' QBs that went nowhere, or couldn't be at all consistent, are a dime a dozen.  Ryan with Atlanta.  Marino, push comes to shove.  Stafford in Detroit, Dalton in Cincy...great numbers, not so great records.  Rodgers is holding the Packers back now, IMO.  

 

It is important to note that it's getting harder and harder to do what Seattle did, simply because salaries at most positions are going through the roof.  

https://sports.yahoo.com/nfls-highest-paid-players-position-143705696.html#:~:text=NFL's highest paid players in,O-linemen | D-linemen

 

One can argue the Pats success was due to...extraneous factors, to some degree, but one reason was, IMO, that they were able to convince players to take a little less...to have the shot at rings.  Plural.  It becomes a cultural characteristic...and so does individual greed, a la Dallas and Green Bay.